IMO the vastly more powerful ebikes are attracting people to "cycling" who lack the experience of riding for a number of years without motor assistance, or some experience of moderate power ebikes.
In many cases, these riders will be heavier, while the ebikes will certainly be heavier than the motorless equivalents.
So when involved in collisions with others, these heavier rider/ebike combined weight systems will cause more damage, especially when they are travelling faster thanks to their derestricted motors.
we've had 150mm travel, big tyres and brakes and steep hills for ages. It's easy to be a dick on any downhill.
Is it really though.
Riding downhill (on road or off) at pace requires a degree of skill and experience or a willingness for injury. It's why it's the only direction I can beat my super fit teens in 🤣
Don’t know about the power debate, but I’d rather see e-bike manufacturers return to some kind of throttle assist.
besides making it easier to clear sections where pedalling is not possible, it would make it easier to pull ahead at traffic lights when you’re in the wrong gear.
Riding downhill (on road or off) at pace requires a degree of skill and experience or a willingness for injury.
But you don't need to be going that fast to be a dick? You can roll past walkers or a horse too close at 15mph and any rider can do a speed that many think is 'too fast!'. It's them that decide who the idiots are, not us.
And about 'new riders coming in who lack the experience' - some are greenlaners who handle bikes better than many MTBers, many MTBs are pony trekkkers on wheels too, not many of us are real pinners are we.
Anyway.. bias or reality, who knows. I don't. If the suggested behaviour change is reality it supports the view that e-MTB is or will become something different to unpowered MTB and supports my thoughts of 'who cares, have 2000W, fill yer boots, get banned, whatever.. it has nothing to do with me and cycling'. I can't stop idiot happening (if it actually does?).
There'll be a grey area in between of course, moderate power e-MTBs ridden like normal bikes, likely they will all get lumped in together though.
Perhaps if we feel strongly about all this we take it to the bike brands. Buy from brands that make products you like and don't make products you believe are bad for MTB. Don't support brands who in future head in a direction you believe does threaten access. Support brands who do work on MTB access and support riding outside of business. Tell the brands what you think.
Ebikes are definitely bringing more people in with a different mentality - just as gravel riders have a different mentality.
Ebikes allow more people who didn't bother before to get involved. So for those who have been doing this for a while and have a respect for the outdoors and nature etc, are now being reduced in numbers as you have more people who have less respect for these things now using the land on an electric bike so they can access it now. A lot are respectful but there are plenty who aren't and they tend to be more visible somehow.
In a similar fashion, a lot of gravel riders (not all or most) come from a road riding background, so there are plenty of gravel rides where there are many riders all riding like a road group, but not on the road...those with a more off-road background tend to be in smaller groups and more single file, but the road-rising gravel riders tend to be in bigger groups as a bunch - each to their own but it shows.
I've no concerns about the gravel rider example above, but it would be great if everyone (and it is everyone) had a bit more consideration whilst out in the Great outdoors.
More people riding bikes is a great thing and if people want to ride an ebike then go for it...if it gets out and appreciate what is around you then all good...don't all be like me (as I'm not saint either), but do try to be more considerate.
So for those who have been doing this for a while and have a respect for the outdoors and nature etc, are now being reduced in numbers as you have more people who have less respect for these things now using the land on an electric bike so they can access it now.
🤣
I heard that nobody rode a footpath or dug out a cheeky trail until Specialized released the Levo.
Yeah, I'm aware what I wrote makes it sound like we were all whiter than white - we weren't, but we also didn't do any of our stuff right in front of everyone. Any digging was done away from common paths, was never (for me and my friends) done on existing paths/trails. However, vast majority of us had spent time outdoors and in the hills so had a respect for the outdoors and other users.
That isn't the case nowadays. It also isn't just ebikes, it is everyone...COVID saw a spike in people walking out and about...for many it was new and it showed - dropping litter (the council must come along and pick this up weekly as there isn't any litter about and they haven't provided buckets)...this hasn't been caused by ebikes but it has allowed that kind of thinking to be able to access more space with ease.
There's some shining examples of availability bias coming up on this thread.
I think there may be a general rise in individualism and self-interest in society but I don't think we'll get far blaming Avinox for that : )
I don’t think the total price is the issue. I suspect many are bought on finance and all that matters is the monthly repayment amount
So (much like “buying” a car) the humble E-bike has become another tool of the finance industry to extract more money than people can really afford.
if people are taking on additional debt to buy these things then it very much is an issue (IMO). But that’s maybe not the focus of this thread.
A few more places where they can be a dick maybe, but I don't see how e-bikes create more dicks. Not unless it's bringing in a hugely different rider mentality (and thf really is 'a different thing' Vs MTB).
You’re right, the ‘dicks per-capita’ ratio of the population is probably quite static, but E-bikes do represent a bit of an enabling tool for them. A Dick on a normal bike is far more capped by their own physical limitations, a dick on an E-bike has so much more opportunity both in terms of range and potential consequences. If they’re not googling options for de-restricting their new toy within the first week of ownership I’d be surprised…
But the genie is out of the bottle now. The UK isn’t good at regulating in a timely fashion, especially industries where the technology and manufacturing moves so fast.
The pace at which E-bikes have “evolved” beyond the relatively simple set of rules around pedelecs isn’t surprising, the backlash is building now though. I got a letter from our MP seeking feedback on “anti-social behaviour involving e-bikes and e-scooters” the other day, more and more press highlighting the terrors of E-bike riders mowing down frail old ladies. All free of the nuances that e-bike fans would hope for.
The people that define our laws are more aware of them and are now considering options; that might be changing laws or simply re-empowering law enforcement to more effectively apply the laws that already exist. That to me is the impacts of e-bikes and their escalating power levels going well beyond the users…
But the genie is out of the bottle now. The UK isn’t good at regulating in a timely fashion, especially industries where the technology and manufacturing moves so fast.
It is, it was out as soon as EPACs became a thing. A great new transport option in transport e-bikes, a fork in the road for off-road cycling. New regs take time to process and Avinox have proven they can put out products in a short timescale.
Plenty places that aren't footpaths that need a hoik over a gate...
And many miscategorised paths, bridleways on map but owner treating it like a footpath, bridleways that were incorrectly registered as footpaths and you're asserting access, illegal barriers (you can only use gates and styles on English/Welsh RoWs if there is livestock apparently), gates that are locked when they shouldn't be or use of kissing gates or other awkward barriers on official cycle routes.
I respectfully disagree about the behavioural risk not changing.
The power is helping open the door to more people whose behaviour is likely to be a problem and can reasonably be expected to amplify bad existing behaviours from others.
So I don't think it's a justified concern unless e-MTBs are attracting a different rider entirely, in large numbers, and their behaviour is very different to the past MTB crowd (and I don't think that's the case).
I don't get over there often but last time I was Peel Tower above Ramsbottom the demographics riding were noticeably different. There were groups of mid 30's Asian blokes on ebikes, rather than just the usual white blokes. They didn't appear to be behaving any differently to the rest of the ebikers though.
