Not to start another wheel size debate (think of the kittens!), but I'm in the market for a new bike / frame and just wondering - do we think wheel sizes will settle down at any point?
I'm currently riding a 26er but really liked the feel of the 29er I tried last year. So my thoughts were upgrade frame/forks, rebuild wheels with bigger rims, jobs a good'un. But now there are 27.5+ and 29+, which maybe my hubs won't convert to? (BOOST)
Is there any end in sight? I'm all for more options for folk (even [i]fatbikes[/i] seem to have had some knock-on benefit 😉 ) but don't really want to shell out a load of cash for kit that will be immediately improved upon.
I haven't ridden a 27.5+ or 29+ but can see that the benefits could be good - I'd think my ideal do-it-all bike could be a 27.5+ 140mm FS, but not sure how many of those are available yet or if they're just a dead end with no tires available in 6 months time!
I honestly think B+ is an own goal for the bike industry - in terms of putting people off changing bikes.
BUT - if you liked the 29er then B+ makes a lot of sense for you as you'll have the option to run B+ or standard 29er wheels and tyres.
I'm keen to try it myself in my standard 29er frames, I will admit.
I hope so.
It's starting to get effing ridiculous.
but don't really want to shell out a load of cash for kit that will be immediately improved upon.
Well you're in luck then. None of the changes in wheelsize have improved bikes, just made them different i.e. better in some situations but worse in others. Of course that may mean they are better for you, but it may not. Good luck 🙂
I really like the idea of 27.5+, I'm not fussed hugely by 27.5/26 wheels, I love my 29HT but the full suss is 26 and i've got no intention of changing.
27.5+ however makes an existing bike more versatile as a kind of semi fat rig - I reckon a 120mm piked fs 29er with a pair of 27.5+_ wheels and 3" tyres could be a brilliant all round bike.
Wouldn't want to by a specific B+ bike though.
I'd say it is settled now, 27.5 & 29er for 98% of new MTBs, 26" for the die-hard luddites and B+ for beard wearing odd-balls... Oh and Fat bikes, just pecause they can.
It'll be drop barred bikes next: 622mm rims will get some special attention, I reckon, it will cause a fuss, but I can see some ****y excuse being made to make CX and road bike wheel sizes diverge, just so Spesh/Giant/Trek can flog some new kit...
But then who really cares? it's only wheels innit...
B+ for beard wearing odd-balls...
You mean 29+ surely?
The bike industry seems to want every Tom, Dick & Harry on B+.
Which bike industry is that then?
You only have to look at how interested people are in B+ and 29+ to see that they are going to be developed a lot over the next couple of years.
I can't see if there will be any new ones though.
I mean what isn't covered by
[code]26 x <2.4
26 x 5
27.5 x <2.4
27.5 x 3.5
29 x <2.4
29 x 3[/code]
!?
I agree that it's settled. You ahve the choice of 27.5 or 29 depending on your riding or taste, then you can go + if you like.
All the changes in wheel size have meant my wife got 25% off an Alpine 160 26er. Very decent price.
Orange are discontinuing that wheel size on that bike, but in a small it makes absolute sense. And we have all the tyres etc in that size already too.
I like 29ers, 26ers, fat 26ers and even 700c.
I'm not getting 27.5 at the moment, but I probably will.
At the moment though, go anti trend - the prices are cheap and the bikes as good as ever.
I'm with Cookeaa - it's 29 for lighter bikes, 650b for gravity bikes - B+ is a fad a halfway house, best/worst of both worlds between a fatbike and well, a mountain bike - of course I said that about 650b.
The only slightly glint of hope I see for 26 is that some respected designer types are looking at equating wheel size with frame size 26 for small, 650b for medium and 29 for large being a massive over simplification of it, but otherwise I don't see 26 having a come back, well not until it's almost forgotten about and some bright PR guy hales is as the next great thing. 😉
650B has proved to the manufacturers that they can sell pretty much anything, to anyone, without justification.
Floodgates are open now, expect yearly introductions of competing standards.
Choice, yaaay.
I'm still not convinced that there wont be a return to 26" at some point. Obviously with some new standards so that you can't just re-use your old stuff. But the smaller = more playful/fun argument still seems to be trotted out fairly often.
27.5+ however makes an existing bike more versatile as a kind of semi fat rig - I reckon a 120mm piked fs 29er with a pair of 27.5+_ wheels and 3" tyres could be a brilliant all round bike.
Why? Not trying to be argumentative, I just don't get it. You spend loads of money on carefully controlled/damped suspension (on your FS 29er example), then stick on some heavier wheels that add a few inches of undamped (or poorly damped) suspension into the mix. Why would that be better.
Simply buy a frame that allows for different plates/rear dropout fitments. That should cover any future changes. Any smidgen-angles- offset bushes and/or angle headset?
You could design to combine the characteristics of fat tyres and suspension. Make your forks firm, maybe platform damped, or little sag, and the tyre would take care of the small stuff.
27.5+ doesn't give you "a few inches of undamped suspension". It allows a higher volume tyre at lower pressure for better traction/grip. Think how folk have been chasing tubeless for years in order to run the same tyres at lower pressure - now exaggerate that. Remember when everyone ran tyres at 50psi? Who does that anymore?
What "Settles" it isn't what all the Niche-Whores on STW and other corners of the web tell us is new and exciting, or whatever novelty Patagonian life-style touring rig Surly are flogging this week...
It's what you'll find on the shop floor when you wander into a Halfords or Evans I'm afraid... While industry types have a big fat Lob-on for oversized rubber, Johnny Trailcentre and his off the peg Carrera/Boardman/Specialized/Trek/etc is still the common benchmark...
Specialized and Trek eh?
I get 27.5 and 29, but TBH I'm lost with the whole "+" thing and BOOST and new axle standards, is there a wider front as well as something that trek are doing with the rear axle?
Seems like a free for all really with little or no cross compatability (I refuse to use the standard word now, as it's pretty much redundant) between bike manufacturers, throw in the addition of variants in BBs and headsets, it's pointless trying to keep up.
Yes, 110mm fronts now.
One of the advantages of 27+ is that it actually retains a lot of compatibility - you can (though obviously many brands won't) use standard 100/135mm hubs and have a frame that will take both 27+ and 29er wheels.
+ + ++ + +++ ++ +
+ ++ + +
++ + +
+ = ?
Where are these + signs coming into it? Do I need to read more magazines?
27+ = a fatter tyre'd 27" (or 650b or 27.5) wheel - eg 3"(ish) or wider tyre
Not full fat bike (which are 4-5" wide usually) but noticeably bigger than a standard 27" bike wheel.
You can probably work out what 29+ is 🙂
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/lets-see-your-29650b-other-nearly-fat-bikes
Nothing's dead,there's more choice than ever,it all works,some better than others,some not so good as others,everyone is different in stature and size,get the bike that suits you not what fashion geeks blurt out,good thread.
[i]Do I need to read more magazines?[/i]
If you ride a 26" bike, I honestly wouldn't bother anymore.
I can't notice any difference due wheel size between my 26 Soul and my 27.5 Anthem. The bikes feel different, obviously, steel HT and alloy FS, but who knows if its the wheels 🙂
I also quite like the idea of a 27.5+ for winter mud plugging.
Surely the more variety the better and the less chance of any of them becoming 'obselete' ?
I think the actual diameter of the rims has settled, Axle standards and widths, hell no.
[i]Surely the more variety the better and the less chance of any of them becoming 'obselete' ?[/i]
The saddest point of all this for me is the unintended outcome of the probable demise of the LBS.
The variation in hubs, BBs, headsets, tyres and on and on...what do they stock? the chances of them having the part I need on the shelf becomes more and more remote.
26 Soul and my 27[s][b].5[/b][/s] Anthem
Well let's face it you wouldn't expect to feel a big difference given that they're near enough the same size 😉
nemesis - Member
26 Soul and my 27.[s]5[/s] Anthem
Well let's face it you wouldn't expect to feel a big difference given that they're near enough the same size
Ehh ?
What Giant say :
What do you get when you combine the XC speed of the Anthem platform with the added handling and stability of 27.5-inch wheels and longer-travel front suspension? You get the allnew Anthem 27.5 SX.
🙂
the chances of them having the part I need on the shelf becomes more and more remote.
Wheels/rims, tyres, (tubes), forks. (tubes are cheap though)
How often do you actually just walk into a LBS expecting to buy exactly the model of those items that you want? You don't really or at least most don't.
What Giant say
Marketing 🙂
(I was only referring to the wheel size, not the bikes themselves)
27.5 for the forseeable future
Big tyres and wide rims just a thinly disguised attempt to flog off all those noodly 1st-gen 29r frames no one wants. In a year or two we'll look back, laugh nervously and move on
Looking at the recent economic data from UK and USA showing people are still skint and likely to remain so for some time yet, expect more shenanigans from the bike industry to try and maintain pre-crash growth in a mature, discretionary spend market at a time when consumers are cutting back even on food...
Personally it's put me right off buying a new bike...
Big tyres and wide rims just a thinly disguised attempt to flog off all those noodly 1st-gen 29r frames no one wants. In a year or two we'll look back, laugh nervously and move on
Big tyres and wide rims don't fit in the 1st-gen 29r frames...
Nice conspiracy theory though 🙂
Busted!
Do I need to read more magazines?If you ride a 26" bike, I honestly wouldn't bother anymore
Yep, that's pretty much my policy.
has anyone mentioned Boost hubs yet?
not long till we're buying Nu-skool roadie hubs for our old-school mtb's...
(oh, hang on, even that won't work!)
Early adopters of these new standards pay through the nose....when 27.5 took off i couldnt believe how expensive tyres were...and also the limited range for the new size.
Now things have calmed down a little prices have dropped and choices are broader.
I think the industry could shoot themselves in the foot here....they seem to be introducing loads of new standards during a time when people supposedly have no money and when the population is ageing, i dont think the pool of riders that the industry is selling to has increased significantly (i could be wrong?!) but i'm not seeing loads of kids riding around trails locally or nationally, uplifts days seem to be the exception but they always attract a younger crowd and most uplift days i've attended this year people are still on 26 inch wheels, ditto the grass roots DH stuff i've done this year.
In spite of this the market is awash with 'stuff'....as a result what i've seen is products are being released with much fanfare and high prices and then RRPs drop massively and the same product is available not even 6 months later for almost half the price....brilliant, keep it up!....provided you're not so insecure that you need to be seen on the latest kit when its released then there are actually loads of bargains out there and good bikes can be built with quality components for (relative) peanuts....add in the direct sales companies and i've got no problem with what the industry is doing to itself!
I've got bikes with 26, 27.5 and 29 inch wheels...all have their merits but my go to bike for fun is the 26 inch HT with medium/long forks (140mm), its a giggle and the fact that the dirt jump, slopestyle and DH market is (mostly) still running 26 inch wheels means replacing parts is an easy and cheap process.
It all just makes my head hurt so i will be keeping my unfashionable 2012 vitus escarpe 26" for a few more years despite wanting something new and shiney. may treat it to some new pikes though 27.5 ones obviously.
Nothing will ever be settled- the 650b experiment was such a triumph, the industry now knows perfectly well they can sell us a crap in a box, as long as it's a slightly different crap. So they will.
Wheels might stabilise, just because they're running out of good ideas (*) but that'll just mean they move onto some other damn thing.
(* good, in this case, doesn't mean good for you- it means something they can sell, that causes the maximum possible product obsolescence)
STATIC.GUIM.CO.UK Didn't bikeradar prove... no, not prove, but show strong evidence that 650b is nothing but a marketing trend?
I've got a 26" bike (soul) and a 29" bike (scandal).
The soul is great in twisty singletrack, trail centre days out, jumps, drops, techy stuff, I love it, it's so much fun, and it's comfy for longer rides, I wouldn't hesitate to do long off road rides on it.
The scandal (now I've got it set up properly) is lightening fast, great for mincing/xc duties - it covers ground so quickly, is comfortable, light, even good on road, perfect for mixed surface local rides from the back door, don't think there is much to beat it out there for what I'm doing with it.
I wouldn't really want to use the soul for my local mixed surface (some road) rides though, or thrash the scandal on techy stuff. I'd be swapping tyres all the time, and generally having to compromise too much on either bike. I know each is capable, but riding something that is set up for the specific job is more enjoyable for me.
So, where do I see a 650b fitting in - nowhere, it wouldn't be as good/fun as either the soul or the scandal for what I do with them I don't think.
if I had to have just one bike, then maybe I'd entertain one, but with my current stable, 650b is not getting a look in.
Only downside is the straight steerer on my soul, I really need to find a MK3 frame to enable me to get decent new forks when mine die.
Only downside is the straight steerer on my soul, I really need to find a MK3 frame to enable me to get decent new forks when mine die.
^ This is exactly where I am 🙂
I don't care what they do. I ride on my own and am not swayed by changes/fashions. My 26" rigid single speed rides just as well as whatever 26" rigid single speed I had 15 years ago.
I still enjoy it just as much and am not racing anyone (okay except Strava)
The sort of riding I do would suggest I would be better off on 29" as proved by my fastest off road times still being on a brakeless fixed gear track bike with 25c tyres but I enjoy the 26" far more.
Just read the post with some interest.
I have now bought two mountain bikes in the last five months , one today.
I haven't got a beard though, suppose I could work on that though.
Cannondale F29 , carbon frame, lefty fork, 29er wheels
Just bought the new Trek Stache 9 29+ today, sort of half fat bike with all sorts of new stands.
1 x 11 , new to me.
Weird front hub and rear hub spacing, big tyres, dropper post, elevated chain stay.
Hopefully out tomorrow, failing that it will make its debut ride at Afan this weekend.
Can't wait.
Wait and see in the next few days... One of the big boys is going to shake things up a bit...
I have a 650b bike, I see absolutely no use in B+, at all. Not even remotely tempted, if I wanted draggy tyres i'd just get some big minions.
One of the big boys is going to shake things up a bit...
29.5++fat-?
wiggles - Member
Wait and see in the next few days... One of the big boys is going to shake things up a bit...
What! 26 is back already?
😉 😆
wiggles - MemberWait and see in the next few days... One of the big boys is going to shake things up a bit...
Are you referring to the 2016 Specialized FSR in 275/275+/29 all over the news today or something else?
I've said this before, but I don't think there's any point at all now in buying stuff in the hope of upgrading bits of it as a long-term investment.
Buy a bike. Don't give it Chris King hubs, they will last far longer than the axle standard they're built to and your interest in the bike you've fitted them to.
The entire bike should be viewed as something you keep for a few years, rag the balls off and then get rid of. Anything that has to be replaced while you own it, don't upgrade unless it needs it - the part won't be a lot of use on your next build.
The only consumers who are really losing out in all of this are people with a lot of money sunk into "lifetime" components.
And the others that lose out...
Those who don't want to create landfill out of their obsolete kit every 3 years
The environment
Anyone who cannot afford to spend the cost of a new bike every few years...
The lbs who can't support the ridiculous list of different standards
If I wasnt full of cold I am sure I could think of others
The only consumers who are really losing out in all of this are people with a lot of money sunk into "lifetime" components.
takes a lot of resources to get aluminium out of bauxite so that's not ideal from a sustainability pov
tbh this constant attempt to force repurchase and upgrade looks a lot like an industry in crisis. Much like the repeating throwing of more money at UK housing market - if there was a healthy demand of current products at current prices then there'd be no need for these kind of shenanigans. Don't forget we're in a debt crisis - even the supermarkets are struggling as people try and make ends meet - discretionary spend like bikes is nothing like as great as it was 10 years ago, and a lot of that was based on unsustainable amounts of debt.
I work in marketing, I can see both sides of the coin here and I'm with the cynics I'm afraid
27.5+ doesn't give you "a few inches of undamped suspension". It allows a higher volume tyre at lower pressure for better traction/grip
Ah, so the extra suspension is just an unfortunate side effect 🙂
Seriously, I see what you are saying and I guess that does make sense, but isn't the flip side of more traction/grip just more drag? Is it really the case that more traction/grip is always better? Since we have to put in the power to overcome the drag isn't the optimum going to be just enough traction/grip for our needs but no more?
I can see that extra grip means that you can go round corners faster and going round corners fast is fun. But I'm still not sure why you have to go to balloon tyres to get that. I could be wrong though. I usually am.
Wider tyres have lower rolling resistances.
Smooth/slick ones do...
And it only applies if you run the wider tyre at the same pressure.
Oi, bike industry! You know the general public is just scratching its head and wandering off to buy a road bike. You've jumped the shark. You're fiddling whilst Rome burns. You're eating cake whilst the people starve! Bourgeois decadence of the mature market. Or something.
It won't settle down, at least for a while.
Probably until they work out how to introduce a whole new standard for another part that will make them stacks of cash
On the overall question, I'd not worry about it, its just not worth it anymore. Buy the bike you want and ride it. Motorbikes (and cars) have rarely had any compatibility between models let alone brands, and no one moans that they cant get a ford sigma engine into a vauxhall astra, or a VW W16 into a Skoda Octavia.
As the industry grows we're going to see more and more of this, untill specialized/cannondale/trek/giant are releasing bikes that are almost entirely their own parts that are 90% as good as the aftermarket for 50% of the price, then RockShox, Fox etc will take up the same position as olhins do in motorsport, they make cheap stuff for Ducatti in the showrooms, then sell you £10k forks aftermarket and the likes or maxton (c.f. TF and PUSH) will give you tuning bits for the OEM stuff to get you from 90% to 95% as good.
Boost hubs are all well and good, but its really just a system your bike might come with (or you build it with), there will still be 100mm and 135mm qr hubs available untill kingdom come.
wider tyres have lower rolling resistances
Having commuted on my fat bike, I can confirm this is bullshit, even the tubbiest roadies overtook me.
They're not as slow as the increace in grip sugggests, but they certainly aren't faster!
That's because you're running lower pressure as pointed out...
That's the riding position and wind resistance not the tyre size 😉
Well, that too probably 🙂
And you are probably correct about tyre pressure.
Cross posts