Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

It’s team selection time! We have 14 riders signed up. This is really quite exciting. We need to get into two teams. Max 8 riders per team. Mixed ability is better (more than 3 from your highest cat pulls you up the coffee groups, but that is not a significant issue really). And remember: holding Phil’s wheel is considerably less difficult when he wants you to (Thursdays) than when he doesn’t (Tuesdays!).

Here’s the plan: I’ll list the entries. Everyone can then talk to the group. I sense that it’s going to coalesce into two teams quite naturally. If I’m wrong, we’ll still get there eventually. I’ll formalise it in a subsequent post with the necessary start delays / zwiftpower tags / discord channels etc. once the teams are reasonably settled.

Further riders are still welcome. There are two more places. Claim one by signing up to category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1106597

The “squad” looks like this:

@paino B

@dangeourbrain B

@w00dster B

@phil56 B

@scaredypants C almost B

@drew ?C

@zilog6128 C

@ljarch C

@retrorick C

@yanboss C

@robbo1234biking C

@oopnorth C

@weeksy C

@ivandobski D almost C

Please form yourselves into two orderly lines. GO!

I use a Bluetooth headset with an integrated mic but you just cant hear me.

someone… I think you… often sounds like a robot, completely unintelligible!! I think discord is a bit pants & needs a really good connection for whatever reason, could be your mic tho. If it’s a cheap one it’s probably no good!! I use my normal running bluetooth headphones (Plantronics Backbeat) which have a mic, I think people can hear me most of the time, but often you don’t get any acknowledgement so I’m never really sure (especially if I’ve got music playing in the background too!)

Probably anything specifically designed as a mic (e.g. gaming headset) rather than something which just has a cheap mic tacked on would be fine. I know the Jabra headsets are supposed to be excellent but they are £££

@zilog6128 your setup works. I can hear you (not now, obviously, you know what I mean).

@savoyad thanks that’s good to know!!

as much as I would like at least one ride at my own pace rather than desperately hanging onto someone’s wheel, I will stick with the original team, it will either kill me or make me faster 😂

Yes it prob is me who you cant hear.

I have a Jabra headset which is my work one which I could try and use but I am not sure if it would fall off or not! It doesn’t have ear cups as such (not sure of the technical term) so is fine for work call but if I get up out of the saddle feel like it would fall off. Might try it this week and then look for a gaming headset after that.

sounds like there’s a few on here worried about getting caught out 😉

Not really I think I might actually be lighter than my Zwift weight now as have dropped a bit from the summer. I should get round to updating that actually but not sure 1kg makes a massive difference.

I just don’t see how it is viable. My wife did some diet thing where you had to submit your weight with a photo on the scales full body and then one on the scales of feet with a code word provided. But it was so rife with cheating from what I could tell with people posting massive losses each week.

I just think if people want to weight dope then they will. I guess you could make it a video recording perhaps?

I’d like to be in the B team. I’m probably a low C teetering on D on a bad day?

I used a headset mic plugged into my pc which hangs off the handlebars. I need to adjust the setting on the mic so it sounds ok for everyone else listening. Speakers for listening.

It doesn’t have ear cups as such (not sure of the technical term) so is fine for work call but if I get up out of the saddle feel like it would fall off.

you need to gaffer tape it round your head. Post up a pic here so we can verify you’ve done it securely.

I just think if people want to weight dope then they will.

of course, but it’s a big difference psychologically I think. If you have to adopt a hardcore cheater mindset then I think that will stop some of the more “casual” dopers who possibly see no harm in knocking off a bit (or a lot!!) of weight.

I’ll go for the new team please!

I use my phone for connecting to discord, with my wired iPhone headphones.
Happy to be in any team. I’m reasonably good at sitting at 3.7 to 3.9 w/kg for a decent amount of time. I can draft faster riders to help keep the group at a decent speed.

I’m happy to be sheep or shepherd, it’s just different sorts of hard, so either team works but suspect they split almost bang in the middle of your list Adam!

I’ve got a cheap BT (haylou) headset which seems to work fine but the issue is discord doesn’t play nicely with zwift companion on my phone and it also loses connection every time the screen goes off (but that’ll be an android power conservation setting). Difficulty there in is its fine on the computer but no push to talk from the turbo as I can’t reach the keyboard so it’s on speech recognition on there or push to talk on the phone in pen then effectively off once moving any how.

I guess it depends if we want one Mocha (Cs and Ds) and one Latte team (Bs, Cs and Ds).

if we split bang in the middle of your list we need a road captain for the second team…

New team for me too please.

Our objective has always been to get the complete team together across the line at what ever pace that group of riders is comfortable holding. We want to work hard, but no one should ever get distressed or ‘shelled’ out the back if we manage it properly. It would be great if we could get both teams to the finish with all riders – but this is going to take a lot more than just pedalling!

For this to work across two teams I think there’s a few things to consider;
Firstly, riding in a relatively tight group and maximising the draft takes a bit of practice – so I think it makes sense to spread the TTT experience a little, so that if one rider is yoyoing a bit at least there is a main blob they can try and stick to.

Also each team will need someone who’s done this before who can watch the gaps to make sure they don’t grow – this requires concentration or it will get messy very quickly!

Next thing is don’t underestimate how much harder it is on the front. For that reason I’d suggest splitting the B’s between the teams – not so that any team goes faster, but so that C riders have a strong wheel to follow. The easiest place for a C cat rider to be is behind a B

Also if the B’s are split across the teams there will be someone who can drop back and help when required – a strong rider sitting last but one or two wheel seems to help a lot.

Just my thoughts – happy to go with whatever works for everyone

I guess it depends if we want one Mocha (Cs and Ds) and one Latte team (Bs, Cs and Ds).

Best we’d manage is two latte with 2xb and 3xb.

Max number of Cs for Mocha is 3 so even a split on a/b/higher c and lower c/d will give Frappe and latte.

I’d go with the exact opposite – have a faster and slower team rather than two teams where the faster riders get a bit carried away and attack the slower riders on the climbs. Likewise, having a strong rider to pace someone back on is great, but it’s probably a strong rider who caused the split in the first place!

Whilst having experience of the TTTs is useful the way we’ve raced them in the past hasn’t relied on technique as much as sheer pace and having groups with a similar output will allow for practising pacing, lineouts etc etc. This is true for both the faster and slower teams – if the abilities are more level then the responsibilities can be shared more evenly.

Going down the route of two mixed teams pretty much ignores the reasons the second team idea has gained as much traction as it has.

I’d go with the exact opposite – have a faster and slower team rather than two teams where the faster riders get a bit carried away and attack the slower riders on the climbs. Likewise, having a strong rider to pace someone back on is great, but it’s probably a strong rider who caused the split in the first place!

Whilst having experience of the TTTs is useful the way we’ve raced them in the past hasn’t relied on technique as much as sheer pace and having groups with a similar output will allow for practising pacing, lineouts etc etc. This is true for both the faster and slower teams – if the abilities are more level then the responsibilities can be shared more evenly.

Going down the route of two mixed teams pretty much ignores the reasons the second team idea has gained as much traction as it has.

I’d agree with that. There’s no shame in having an A squad and a B squad, there’s nothing to be embarassed about just because you’re not able to go as fast as some… in simple terms, i don’t want to die 1000 deaths in the ride just hanging on. I want to be an equal. Currently i’m not. I don’t mean that to come out as harsh, eliteist, whatever… i just want to enjoy it and feel part of the team. Hanging onto last place in the group want it to end after 10 mins is not being part of the team i’m afraid.

Ok I would suggest a split as below:

Team 1:
Phil56
Scaredypants
W00dster
Zilog
Oopnorth
Robbo
Yanboss

Team 2:
Dangerourbrain
Paino
Ivan
Weeksy
Retrorick
Drew
ljarch

Or swap paino and dangerourbrain for me and oopnorth if we want to go for a stronger team.

Could we not just do top 7 bottom 7 of that list above?

If we go for a faster and slower I think I would rather be the slow man in the faster group. Being dragged round legs screaming trying not to let everyone down is what makes the TTT appealing for me.

Odd I know!

Is it worth taking into account that the best “outcome” for the stronger team will be if the stronger team limits itself to 3xB, and so rides latte. I think we can do this whilst totally respecting weeksy and ivan’s reasonable wish to make sure that the group they ride with is not a nightmare for them to hang in with. Like phil says, Bs can be an asset to the Cs and Ds.

But I think the overall aim needs to be it works out so that everyone involved this evening wants to be involved again next week – whilst maintaining a genuine possibility of fluidity between the two teams.

This first time we go through this will be the hardest to get right I think.

For my tuppence worth…

I think mixed teams will work best but, if I’m right, that will become apparent after a week or 3 of more balanced grouping.

A split along the lines of stronger/weaker has I’m pretty sure attracted a few extra hats to the ring this week, so, despite my thinking it’s not the best solution I think its probably the right one for this week at least and see how it bears out. Once we’re settled in I think the groupings are likely to change naturally to more mixed ability instead but we’re likely to end up with two happy mixed teams if that’s an organic thing as opposed to back to one next week if it’s forced.

YMMV of course.

OK so I think this works best to suit everyones opinion and see how it goes for this week:

Team 1:
Phil56
Scaredypants
W00dster
Zilog
Dangerourbrain
Paino
Yanboss

Team 2:
Ivan
Weeksy
Retrorick
Drew
ljarch
Oopnorth
Robbo

How about (probably with some tinkering)…

@phil56 B

@paino B

@scaredypants C almost B

@yanboss C

@zilog6128 C

@robbo1234biking C

And

@dangeourbrain B

@w00dster B

@drew ?C

@weeksy C

@retrorick C

@oopnorth C

@ljarch C

@ivandobski D almost C

Logic: phil and paino to drive one team, brian and w00dster to drive the other (more sympathetically..). yanboss gets to follow as requested, robbo and zilog
can do their usual thing. there’s plenty of experience in both teams independent of category. i don’t think i’ve contradicted anyone’s stated preferences. happy to change if so though. there’s scope to rebalance the numbers, esp if someone (of any category) wants to move across, that would speed up the faster team, but might make it slightly harder to ride with the (thereby) slower team. or it might be that one of brian and woodster is enough and there’s still space for the other to move “up” whilst keeping that team in latte.

On the upside of that robbo, all those ZA training thingy bobsy whatsits folks have been doing will come into their own for someone – there’s a lot of nasty interval work keeping the back of a group in touch 😉

there’s still space for the other to move “up” whilst keeping that team in latte.

Didn’t scaredy get flagged B last week?

Didn’t scaredy get flagged B last week?

It’s complicated. Last week, the WTRL system intervened to pick him up as a B based only on that one ride, but that was because at that time ZP hadn’t allocated him a category. But now ZP has categorised him as a C (based on more than one ride) so tonight that will prevail. It won’t last though.

Ah, fair do.

My only suggestion with your groupings then Adam is that either woodster or I move across to bumbleBs this week at least.

One of us riding tail gunner in the bumbleCs should be enough instead of pulling on the group. That way the group can hold its own pace but there’s someone able to fill the gaps if needed when they form. My suspicion as I say is it’ll be all change for balanced groups over the next few weeks any how.

I’m probably more suited to the slower team so I can contribute and not risk falling off the back, however saying that I am also happy to try the faster team if required, I can always change if it doesn’t work out.

Just put me wherever 🙂

Just seen the ? before drew. My w/kg is a smidge under 3.1 which I think makes me a C but with an ftp of 232 I’m a bit underpowered on the flats (doesn’t bode well for this evening). I’m surprised Ivan is a B/C as he definitely seems stronger than me in the race series.

Lets see how tonight’s race goes and I’ll know if I can hang onto fast groups or not 😉

I’m a bit underpowered on the flats (doesn’t bode well for this evening)

It’s sand and sequoias isn’t it? If so it’s a good course for a group with mixed strengths, it’s a half and half really between a big flat stretch round the desert, undulating and a nice little climb. Should give the heavier guys a good opportunity to drag the group then the lighter folks a decent run too.

I’m surprised Ivan is a B/C as he definitely seems stronger than me in the race series.

Yeah, zwift categories are weird, I ended up as an A at least a couple of races ahead of Phil.

I have a love / hate relationship with that hill in the sequoias, hate it the normal way round as it feels like it goes on and on, but I love the reverse direction, short and punchy.

Not one of my best routes, so I’m probably best in the slower team based on that alone haha!

Wait, what, did I miss a memo ? have I fallen off a list ? I thought I was a regular now.

I thought I was already entered for this week, and I’m up for the WTRL league when it starts.

Can’t keep up with this forum on a hourly basis !.

Can’t keep up with this forum on a hourly basis !.

In an evening or of a weekend I can understand, but during office hours? What else are you doing?

@haloric. sorry. just enter the event here (cat A) and join the conversation…
https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1106597

Hmm, maybe I wasn’t subscribed, how embarassing, anyway I am now.

I’m a middle of the road C I think.

Don’t have an opinion on how to split teams-It’s fun whichever way we do it. We do need to make sure that there is always a ‘team leader’ or at least someone with good comms on the Bumble B’s to do what Phil does to the A’s. My headset obviously works by transmitting sound whenever there is some…which is all the time on the turbo so I have to mute myself on discord.

re: comms

I have ‘push-to-talk’ set on Discord, which means no transmitted sound unless you are holding the button, and I use a separate phone for it. I think it works pretty well with practice.

I use jawbones headset to be berated by Phil, as it means I can listen to music on normal inner ear headphones and have my head vibrated when I’m lagging. It feels like Phil is actually inside your head.

It feels like Phil is actually inside your head.

Is it just me or do we all think he looks like this?

When the jawbones aren’t working right, its more this…