• This topic has 2,360 replies, 53 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by paino.
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  • Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday
  • phil56
    Full Member

    Nah, it’s we’ll done Brian!
    Enjoyed the ride last night, good fun that.
    And don’t say sorry about the Frappe thing Brian – we agreed long ago it’s about joining in and having a bit of a crack if possible, try our best but not get that concerned about results

    weeksy
    Full Member

    For me the TTT has nothing to do with overall results, it’s about being with a bunch of STWers and putting in 100%. Anything else is a bonus, i’ve never actually looked at the results post-race, but i do see them in the thread, however they barely exist in my mind.

    savoyad
    Free Member

    Another good ride. Brian I thought you had realised but were just being modestly discreet about the upgrade to A. Congrats though. It doesn’t matter what category we ride in.

    I don’t think I’ve ever ridden half of that route before, it’s an odd one!

    Indeed. It doesn’t even go out and back. And its weird profile makes it rubbish rather than interesting for races. It is quite a “good” TTT course though – it’s hard to stay together on the reverse KOM after 30km and the volcano.

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    I didn’t even realise there was a tunnel to the volcano!

    Oh, and the apology is a bit tongue in cheek, it was more that I was surprised to see we’d not done a bit better in the results as we normally do well on hilly courses. There was a brief moment of head scratch followed by a penny dropping.

    The TTT is very much about the craic so no real concern on that front, the down side is I’m now supposed to do real races in A, and those guys are sodding quick.

    oopnorth
    Full Member

    Yeah good luck with that Brian, I can’t even keep up in C races!! 🙂

    twisty
    Full Member

    Well done (or commiserations) on the A cat, so if you raise your weight by 0.5kg it doesn’t bump you back down again?

    Thanks for the ride again, sorry I was a bit all over the place towards the end, it was partly my setup/losing a contact lens and partly me being a spanner.

    I found out about supertucking a few days ago and tried it for the first time in that TTT and after I worked out that trying to trackstand on rollers is not a good idea it seemed to work really well, faster than pedalling and an opportunity to get in some liquids, was anybody else coasting on the faster downhill bits?

    savoyad
    Free Member

    Entries are open for this week’s TTT. Thursday, 6.30pm.

    Enter category D here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1015345

    It’s back to France for 1x 24km lap of Douce France this week (which is the reverse of RGV, the course we rode the week before last).

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    I can’t do the next 2 or 3 weeks sorry. I’m away to Scotland with my bike for a week on Friday (so packing the car trying to remember brake pads etc on Thursday this week and away next) then Mrs brain and I are both on holiday the following week so might not be about for that either.

    On the up side:
    A) Phil is back
    B) you tend to do better without me
    C) you don’t have to listen to my dulcet tones on discord.

    robbo1234biking
    Full Member

    @dangeourbrain – I was confused on Discord as I expected you to be a gruff Yorkshire man!

    I am in for Thursday – have entered. That course should be easier that way as long as we don’t get broken up on the first section!

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    I was confused on Discord as I expected you to be a gruff Yorkshire man!

    Careful now…

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    nice one sav, I am in!

    twisty
    Full Member

    I managed to track down and fix the short-circuit in a slightly more adequate laptop so with any luck I’ll actually be able to see what I’m doing on Thursday.

    robbo1234biking
    Full Member

    There is definitely a glitch on the french course where it slows down at a village and the KOM aqueduct and the wierd very twisty bit.

    Ridden it both directions and it has lagged in that location both ways and not dependent on how many riders are on screen. Plus it is a brand new laptop and flies on all the other bits and courses at 1080p.

    savoyad
    Free Member

    Bump. Four of us on the start sheet at the moment for tomorrow 6.30pm.

    1x 24km lap of Douce France. Weeksy says it’s hilly. Robbo says it’s glitchy. But it’s pretty short for a TTT and I think (let’s see) the difficult bit as a team is near the start when we’ll still be fresh this way round.

    Join us here, category D: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1015345

    I’ll post our start delay this evening / tomorrow morning…

    savoyad
    Free Member

    We have a start delay for this evening: 7 mins. So in the pen by 18:33 and we actually start at 18:40 exactly.

    At the moment it’s
    savoyad
    twisty
    zilog6128
    robbo1234biking

    To add your name to the list, sign up to category D here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1015345

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    Enjoy folks! I shall be trying to setup my wet weather tyres tubeless prior to going away with the bike tomorrow. Nothing like a bit of prep time

    weeksy
    Full Member

    I’m riding Afan tomorrow so i won’t be playing tonight fellas.

    robbo1234biking
    Full Member

    Is the time based on 3 crossing the line or 4 if you start with 4? Not that I am planning on dropping out or anything!

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    3rd man over robbo.

    savoyad
    Free Member

    3rd of 3 or 4
    and
    4th of more.

    Simple. But I can never remember this information in the last 5km.

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    But I can never remember this information in the last 5km.

    If you can think you’re not pedaling hard enough.

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    Might be able to join but as my usual Thursday night commitments are maybe not on. If so can I confirm later?

    Only issue I had when I did it before was because I wasn’t pedalling during the waiting period before I started my power meter went to sleep and I had to play catch up off the line.

    Any way round this?

    twisty
    Full Member

    You can sit at the sensor connection menu while pedalling, then stop pedalling and go back to the game just before the start.

    savoyad
    Free Member

    No worries tpbiker. There’s no need to give advance notice. If you join the event and you’ll automatically be part of the team (your zp profile is still tagged STW). If we see you in the pen or on discord we’ll know you’re with us. If not, not.
    As twisty says, you can safely pedal to wake up the power meter in the pairing menu (press A, or go through menu –> pair). The settings menu itself doesn’t help – in fact it’s worse because you move but can’t see that it’s happening – you have to go all the way into pairing.

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    I’m in..see you at start line

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    That felt much harder than last time I did it despite power showing as similar and it being shorter!

    Last 2km were a bit of a shitshow but other than that a good effort by all.

    robbo1234biking
    Full Member

    Cheers for that guys. Got split at the end when that group went past. I was talking to say we had split but forgot to push the talk button! Doh! Tried to get back on but think had put too much out through the first section with the lumps and bumps.

    Still was a good run out. 10w of the reverse course two weeks ago but haven’t done any structured training and had a break from training as I have been hitting it hard since lockdown began. I reckon that is a realistic view of my fitness at the moment but hopefully will come back soon!

    twisty
    Full Member

    Thanks for the ride, seemed like a strong group this week.

    I did go through that group to join you robbo, but then fell back again when I realised there was no 3rd man with me.

    So what’s the protocol if another team passes and then sits up in the last 5km again, blast back past them?

    I managed to be almost glitch free today on this restored laptop, just a couple of times at the beginning of the course when my power went to zero for a few seconds and I had to put a bit of effort in catching back up again.

    Tim I think needs to adjust zwiftpower name to have space between name and the ‘(STW)’

    robbo1234biking
    Full Member

    I think it was you and tpbiker that caught the other group. I was hanging of the back trying to hang on to savoyad’s wheel! It did really throw our cohesion. The group in front of them didn’t really break away from us either.

    Thought we held together as a group pretty well though. Did anyone else have the glitchy problem through that village about 10k in? It starts stuttering!

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    I thought it was pretty glitch free. Last time I struggled as the power seemed to be delayed so I kept yo yo’ing out front and back but this time was easier to stick in group.

    The last group that passed us ruined the last 2 km for us. They went past then pretty much just stopped. I reckon in future just fire on past them because they were not playing in spirit of race.

    I also find it really hard to know if the folks behind you are in your draft. I wish you could switch between only 2 views, normal and looking behind you, as cycling through the various views is a pain in the ass

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    What was our time in the end do you know?

    robbo1234biking
    Full Member

    36:36. We came 54 in Latte out of 131. The times were all pretty close though so wouldn’t have taken much improvement to bump up the leader board. Our 6, 12 and 19km time was pretty consistent though which is good we didn’t really drop off towards the end.

    savoyad
    Free Member

    That is a really satisfying result, especially as we were a team of just 4.

    I got home in a hurry and started without a fan, towel or discord working properly. Luckily I was rescued about 10mins in when my wife got home. But apparently I didn’t ask very nicely…

    I’ve said this before – other teams are the hardest part of this. We did get scrappy towards the end, but it didn’t matter timewise because we were stuck behind those others anyway. It was a big effort to regroup just before we caught them (tpbiker you cruise along at 15% over my FTP…) so I’m not sure that we’d have been able to surge again and get all 4 of us past them after that even if we had tried. Frustrating though. Before that, it was really a great compact team effort.

    What device do you use tpbiker? On a computer you can choose your view with the number keys. I think you are asking for view 5: https://zwiftinsider.com/keyboard-shortcuts/ I think phil might vary his view a bit to keep us together/encourage us along/shout when a gap opens, either that or he can read the side panel like the matrix.

    I’m putting us in pen A (which is less busy) next week to see if that helps. I think we might (appropriately) have to get our mountain bikes out next week. It’s three laps of the jungle circuit. I’ll post the link separately.

    twisty
    Full Member

    What I was doing yesterday was looking at the rider listing on the right hand side when I was 1st wheel, if it was showing more than +1 second to 2nd wheel then I was backing off a bit – was that working?

    It seems that in Zwift it is optimal to form a paceline like in a real world TTT but judging the power to actually do this is easier said than done and not sure how much I should be trying to keep to a line and rotate in order? Sometimes I was moving to 2nd wheel to try and cover gaps or doing more of a constant effort churning with periods of falling to the back for a drink/recovery if I was getting tired.

    To risk overanalyzing things at the end, when that team passed us going up that small hill, I was last wheel. All of us did detach from that group although 1 rider ended up a few bike lengths ahead so I moved into 2nd wheel to try and cover that gap.
    The group that had just passed us then obviously slowed down so I unmuted and called that, as it looked like staying behind them was going to cost us about 15s/km, somebody said pass them so I upped effort a bit to pass them, then somebody else said they were hanging back – which I thought meant they were cooked and we were going to 3 men so I continued, but then just as I was passing the group I realised there was nobody else with me so I fell back to link back up with the 3rd and 4th wheel riders behind by which time we were within the last 500m with 1st wheel about 20m ahead so I did some smooth acceleration to try and bridge us back to 1st wheel.

    Either way, it’s good the four of us finished close together considering zwiftpower only picked up 3 of us as STW team.

    robbo1234biking
    Full Member

    I wouldn’t worry too much. I think everyone is aware that they want to take a turn so everyone pushes to the front which I think pushes the pace on. The way Zwift draft works I think if you are all together, that is good enough to get the benefit.

    It was just being clearer on the comms but I was pretty cooked so cognitive effort meant I forgot to push the button to talk so you couldn’t hear what I was saying and savoyad was having comms issues anyway. Assuming that everyone’s comms is working then have a road captain who makes decisions (probably not me – that was only my 2nd attempt!).

    Still good fun which was the main aim. Volcano circuit suits me a bit better as the climb is steady and easier to pace rather than the v02 max workout through th me first section! Looking forward to the next one.

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    zwiftpower only picked up 3 of us as STW team.

    Is it me who’s not registered correctly?

    I use a pc but my keyboard is nowhere close so I need to use the app to change view

    tpbiker you cruise along at 15% over my FTP

    I wish that was me cruising! What kind of watts per kilo did folks put out yesterday for that effort? I ended up at about 3.9 watts per kilo, which is a slightly below ftp, however I’m far better with a consistent effort, where as yesterday I was having to put in some efforts closer to 5w/kg at times which ruined me a bit.

    The second half felt much easier than the first tbh. May be I wasn’t warmed up enough but up until about the 6th km I was fearing I’d blow up before half way.

    robbo1234biking
    Full Member

    I was 3w/kg but I am a big lump so had the second highest NP out of us despite the lowest power to weight ratio!

    Tpbiker- 264w NP 3.9 W/kg
    Twister – 297w NP 3.4 W/kg
    Savoyad – 251w NP 3.4 W/kg
    Me – 270w NP 2.9 W/kg

    I think the STW team on zwiftpower doesn’t affect the TTT results. You can join the team here although I have no idea who runs the team on zwiftpower! https://www.zwiftpower.com/team.php?id=756

    That first section is hard up and down. I think it was better on the second half when we could settle into a rhythm.

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    Interesting that my np and average power were both 3.9!! Felt much less even paced than that.

    I think looking at that power output tells you why I get ruined in flat races unless I enter the c cat. Robbo’s watts per kilo is 25% less but he went just as fast as me yesterday.

    twisty
    Full Member

    The Zwiftpower power curve data seems to be unreliable, it’s completely different to my Strava powercurve data for the same ride.

    Yup TPbiker you didn’t have the STW team flag against your name in the results, I guess because not joined the STW team.

    I personally think the W/kg metric is over-used as it doesn’t relate directly to performance level unless going up a steep hill (perhaps my bias as a larger person), even for a TT it’s mostly dictated by power and CdA rather than W/kg, and when working as a team it doesn’t capture the contribution of punching a big hole in the air for team-mates or punchy efforts closing down gaps or pulling at front.

    savoyad
    Free Member

    Entry details for this week’s TTT…

    It’s 3x laps of the jungle circuit, 29 lumpy kilometers, 6.30 on Thursday.

    Enter CATEGORY A here – https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1028995 – yes category A this week, I’m hunting for a quieter start pen (for a shorter start delay, and less traffic on the course).

    I think we need all need to change onto MTBs this week judging by this https://zwiftinsider.com/gravel-bike-results/ which says that’s worth over 1 minute per lap compared to a road bike (we’re starting in the jungle start pens).

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