Working Mans Race Series-Warning Strava content

I might be over reacting, but if everyone took the OPs view places like Woburn would now be fenced off and bulldozed land, and not great trails and jumps as it is now.

I know you ride a lot and care about the sport OG, but I think you and a lot of people are over reacting to this. Its for a month, people will ride as they allways do, but at the end of the month someone gets a box of tea. The bulldozers wont move in, and apart from those in the know nothing will have happened.

You’d probably be hard pushed to even notice anything was going on.

Except for the Facebook page, the videos, and the forum postings that is.

For anyone wanting to make an issue of bike access to the trails, it’s a gift.

I know you ride a lot and care about the sport OG, but I think you and a lot of people are over reacting to this. Its for a month, people will ride as they allways do, but at the end of the month someone gets a box of tea. The bulldozers wont move in, and apart from those in the know nothing will have happened

it depends, if you have a militant rambler/ horserider there will be formal complaints going into the local council/highways/PROW team if they get a whift of it. All written from an informed understanding of the relevant legislation and probably a confontational approach to the council etc

I hear this years uk gravity Enduro series will be using Strava/smartphone apps for the timing system, can anyone confirm?

Can’t make it any less accurate 🙂 if I was entering I’d be using a garmin to check for massive errors.

I’m in two minds about this one really. I do think the organisers have been pretty foolish/naive to not even try and claim its not a race, and no disclaimers about riding safely etc. That is also a fairly poor choice for a segment IMO as it often gets really busy with walkers, being right by Ambleside. Definitely could end up being used as ammo by those wanting to limit access for bikes.

On the other hand some of the criticism on here is pretty OTT, and it is interesting to note the different treatment of CTBM. Nicely shot video btw.

open to manipulation

You think? 😈

this one may have issues as IIRC they cross the bridleway through the site

My understanding is that there isn’t any issue with crossing a bridleway during a race. I’ve taken part in events where bridleways have been OOB due to the legal situation, but we’ve been allowed to cross them. It’s certainly not illegal to do so. BC rules may say something different, but they don’t apply to a lot of events.

On the other hand some of the criticism on here is pretty OTT, and it is interesting to note the different treatment of CTBM. Nicely shot video btw.

Maybe yes, it doesn’t anger me or anything, and it shows some passion. It’s the way the OP has waded in. I think the OP believes this is a free country 😉 And has broken the unwritten rules of cheeky’ness.
I wish I could offer advice or something, but I don’t think you can take racing and riding and mix them together, it’s not that the end result doesn’t taste nice, it’s just pointless.

I’m with cookieaa here. This site has frequently been wonderful, but this thread epitomises everything that is wrong with some long standing members on here who feel the need to object to pretty much everything that fits in with their idea of mountain biking (unless it comes from a name they recognise).

I’m afraid that for most people these days mountain biking is about going as fast as is reasonable on descents, it has moved on from slogging around the edges of fields on a Marin Mount Vision. I know that 10 years ago when I joined STW I was riding much tamer trails on a much less capable bike, and judging by the bikes being shown in the “What bike have you got threads” I know most people have also progressed. Now things have moved on and this is how it is, and being backward about it will not stop fun things like unofficial races like this happening.

No one will sue anyone. Everything will be fine. It’s not even really racing any more than what Strava does already. People will ride the trail as fast as they ever have, perhaps even as fast as they did before they rode it with Strava. Strava is not really making people change how they ride, the people that use it were always riding as fast as they could. Which is, for all but a few who are out for the view, the point of riding bicycles down hills. You see a walker, you slow down. Simple. We all do it, have done for years and this doesn’t change anything.

And mates have been racing mates on trails for years, pretty much every time they go out together. Sometimes they say it’s a race, usually they don’t. It’s still competing with each other.

I hope this goes well for you OP, I will certainly have a crack at some of it if I’m up that way and not riding a big old mountain. And as someone who has organised more official events I don’t consider this to make a mockery of what I do, it’s a totally different thing.

OP has been naive in calling his informal bit of fun a ‘race’, that’s all.

But if ‘racing’ along BWs is the epitome of evil, how are the organisers of this going to manage? I’m wondering how they will create a long route around here that will avoid all BWs and FPs and still be any good. And it’s definitely badged as a race.

I hear this years uk gravity Enduro series will be using Strava/smartphone apps for the timing system, can anyone confirm?

If that’s true (and I smell a wind-up) it’s pretty poor. Imagine if other cycling events were timed to within 15m accuracy. World Cup DH? Road race bunch sprints?

Sorry yeah I was joking, thought it would be obvious. 🙂

if ‘racing’ along BWs is the epitome of evil

No-one’s arguing that. I’ve done plenty of events like the HONC which use BWs and even private land, but these are advertised beyond groups of mates on Facebook, marshalled at crossings, permissions are obtained, the emphasis is on the challenge rather than pinning it, and they’re only for one day a year. To compare them to open “challenges” that demand people to go out and treat a short open section of bridleway like a closed DH track is missing the point by a mile.

My understanding is that there isn’t any issue with crossing a bridleway during a race. I’ve taken part in events where bridleways have been OOB due to the legal situation, but we’ve been allowed to cross them. It’s certainly not illegal to do so. BC rules may say something different, but they don’t apply to a lot of events.

If you cross a bridleway you are “on” it and therefore fall foul of the relevant legislation

It’s not just BC with this view, I’ve seen it from other sources.

A high profile example was the Manchester Commonwealth Games where the course was heavily constrained because it could not cross the bridleways in the area

Hyperbole on my part, I admit – but it remains that permission cannot be granted at any level for cycle racing on bridleways, regardless of marshalling and insurance. It’s possible the event I linked avoids BWs altogether (wondering how though!) and has got the permissions to use FPs, but even so, it’s badged as a race, and that means that plenty of folk will be trying to push it hard, even if some are treating it as a distance challenge.

I take your point about extending the ‘race’ over a month, but I’m struggling to see how walkers having to look out for hundreds of riders racing on one weekend day is much better than a handful of facebookers scattered sporadically over a longer period.

Not sure I’d be that interested in either event (the OP should think about maybe including a climb or two rather than just descents), but the opprobrium that has been heaped on him seems OTT to me.

I do find it interesting how differently CTBM’s event is being treated by some here. He’s admitted that really it’s a race, and will be using public ROW, and from what people have said it sounds like there will be a fair bit of alcohol involved.

Drunk bearded guy on a SS bike takes out a walker on a BW doing something that looks suspicuously like a race? I highly doubt in those circumstances any insurance policy will be worth the paper it’s written on. Oh but it’s ok someone did a risk assessment on the back of a fag packet.

Usual STW double standards in full effect.

I’d agree that billing “races” on open RoW sends out the wrong message and could come back to bite organisers, but there’s a huge difference between the way people ride an endurance event of 50 miles and an all-downhill event of 0.5 miles. It’s totally disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

What about when they’re pissed?

And it’s not disingenuous – you have a different opinion.

I believe said event finishes at the pub. Unless someone finishes the race, necks a few pints, then heads off for a 25-mile victory lap, how is the scenario you describe going to transpire?

Its for a month, people will ride as they allways do, but at the end of the month someone gets a box of tea. The bulldozers wont move in, and apart from those in the know nothing will have happened.

They won’t though – some people will push that little bit harder, because they’re competitive, it’s natural. Perhaps they’re 5 seconds off, so they go for another go. They hit a walker who gets hurt, friend comes along and says without thinking “I’m really sorry, we’re doing a race”. There’s an excellent chance that it will pass completely unnoticed by those who care.

But there are massive ramifications if that doesn’t happen!

My 2p worth… which has been stated previously in the thread.

The issue is that it has been promoted as a “Race”.

If there is an incident that results in an injury or a potential for legal action it will get back to the promoter and you will be in trouble. No permission, no insurance, no risk assessment, no marshals, no warning signs, no closure notices and no first aid provision. Trust me, as a race promoter myself there is an awful lot of ball ache that I could do without but it is necessary. We’ve seen disputes with other trail users and broken bones, dislocations, asthma attacks, bad gashes etc that have required mountain rescue call outs – with police in attendance (police get notified automatically of a MR call out). If they get a whiff that this is anyway organised they will want to see the paperwork. If it is in order and you haven’t been reckless you won’t hear any more. If it isn’t then I dread to think what would happen. My races have to have public liability insurance for £5,000,000 per incident. Have you got that much, in case you need it?

Keep it amongst yourselves and it is fine. Promote it and you have to play by the rules. If you promote it you have a duty of care to everybody that is involved.

It doesn’t matter if you think this is nanny state-ism, them’s the rules.

I believe said event finishes at the pub. Unless someone finishes the race, necks a few pints, then heads off for a 25-mile victory lap, how is the scenario you describe going to transpire?

Pretty sure I’ve seen numerous things about people getting pissed before/during SS events. In fact look here at what you said:

Thing it, if it’s anything like previous SSUKs it’ll be the least competitive “race” ever run. People don’t do beer stops in the middle of Strava runs do they?

And he also said there would be no marshalls, first aid etc

But hey it’s ok because hey it’s just some cool guys on niche bikes having fun, not these young punks with their Strava obsession. 🙄

I’m pretty sure that anyone who does drink at SSUK will be taking readings of their blood alcohol content and posting them online for everyone to see, along with a video of them shotgunning a six-pack.

I see you’ve discovered the web page, did you clock this bit?

It’s not a race, it’s an off road reliability trial.

Yes, and I also clocked the bit where he said on a public forum that actually it is a race.

there is a race, it is a race, we will be racing… But don’t tell anyone with a clip board.

It also says there won’t really be marshalls/medics, and it starts at a pub, goes to another pub before doing another lap.

I’ve already agreed the guys in the OP have been a bit daft/naive, but the bile and double standards here are ridiculous.

I’m pretty sure that anyone who does drink at SSUK will be taking readings of their blood alcohol content and posting them online for everyone to see, along with a video of them shotgunning a six-pack.

:swoon:

For the record… Racing and promoting racing on the BW network is illegal. As far as we are concerned at ST it’s also irresponsible and puts shared trail users at an unacceptable risk that will potentially backfire on the whole MTB community.

This is an accident waiting to happen and Singletrack does not endorse this event.

Take it off the BW network on to dedicated trails with permission, liability insurance etc and it’s a different matter entirely.

are you certain about that?

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/video-this-is-sheffield-mass-start-dh/

I don’t have a 6″ travel all mountain steed, but I do have GPX editing software – can I race?

count me in 🙂

If the Workingmans Series had something as strongly-worded as this on their FB page I might not have been as critical.

You’re Strava time is not the most important thing, the use, acceptance and permanence of the trail are. If there are others on the trial, give way to them, give them a smile, you can always have another go. DONT **** IT UP FOR EVERYONE ELSE.

All we ask is that you ride responsibly. Be respectful to other trail users, the trail itself and yourself. Don’t piss anyone off, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Simple. There’s not prizes, only bragging rights. You race completely at your own risk. We take absolutely no responsibility for your actions or any injuries sustained to you or anyone else.

Instead they put shite like this:

Only 9 Days left for YOU to take the KOM & QOM on this months segment. Have you seen what you can win? The coveted WMRS February Segment trophy!

In fact has anyone else looked at their page recently? It’s removed all mention of “racing” or even riding bikes. Shame that’s not the way the Internet works eh…

The Whinlatter Challenge must be a race the Endurance Series news story on here describes it as such.

Anyone got a GPX of the course, I want to ask BC how the rest of the mtb xc world can use the lessons learnt from Whinlatter to get new and better courses.

it looks like the OP is changing stuff on the FB page (e.g. next months ‘segment’ looks like more of a loop in a forest that may not be BWs, and there is mention of a ‘revised mission statement’), which I think sounds good and they should get some applause for that

If the Workingmans Series had something as strongly-worded as this on their FB page I might not have been as critical.

Of course you could have just suggested something like that rather than ranting on about how everyone that uses Strava is a bellend.

In fact has anyone else looked at their page recently? It’s removed all mention of “racing” or even riding bikes. Shame that’s not the way the Internet works eh…

So basically they’ve listened to people’s concerns and you’re still slating them?

lol they removed the ‘r’ from the logo

Even the Strava segement has been renamed…

Blimey.

I have been making this up as I go along. Busking my pants off, and now everything important is in place.

What has been said earlier, may not be the case on the weekend. Many details have changed: the date, there is a fee, the Dorset rough riders MTB club are marshalling the iffy road crossing, the bit where it’s easy to get lost, and anywhere that the risk assessment rides showed as iffy. We are an actual affiliated proper club.

It’s not a race,It’s a reliability trial, at 25 miles per lap and the keen guys going for 2 laps, it won’t be flat out. There may well be a tattooist at the finish. There might be racing, but that is something else, not the main event, and it may involve a wall of death pursuit race or beach racing (not all details are nailed down) .

It’s on my local trails, all bridle paths and this is a small community, and people know who i am and where to find me, I don’t want to fight off angry farmers throwing dead burning sheep through my door., so everyone will be told not to be a dick, slow for walkers, don’t skid, be nice, only crash into yourself, stay classy. Break any one of those rules and I will wee in your helmet, break more than one rule and it will be whilst you are still wearing your helmet.

The format is no different to the 1000 people wiggle sportive, or the Sunday morning dual carriageway TT. On a local level our 150 ish riders is a drop in the pond. The sandbanks ferry will be conveying 50 cyclists, three times an hour, all day, everyday… out of Poole and into the neighbourhood.

I attended wiggles impressively organised event, and the 1000 people were so spread out it was barely noticeable. Just like any other Sunday really. I think they missed some excellent trails (shame) and went down a very fast wide descent (not challenging but risky), but we will be pushing our bikes up that one. Our route takes in the best bits, but where it can get busy, we are climbing, or avoiding in favour of the legal singletrack nearby.

What may appear as a cheeky thrown together drunken shambles is in fact a well planned cheeky thrown together drunken shambles (refering to the whole weekend). I’ve done the whole lot by myself, a team of one, testing a theory that we can have an event without debt and hassles, and the hurdles that have stopped events previously. What started out as an informal gathering has evolved into a cycling club doing an off road sportive( with a roasted pig ) . The money is all spent now, but I hope there is a legacy for 2014. Someone can pick up this model and do the same next year, and the year after. If we go back to full on closed circuit XC racing, that is ace, but we also have this option, so never again will the proud and honourable one speed gentlemen of Great Britain have to go without a good knees up.