Wonders of the Universe – Perspective

Watched the first episode last night.
Fantastic. In every sense of the word.

The pointlessness of existence was a key theme. And I mean that in a literal sense, not in some teenage angst kind of way. It wasn’t a bleak picture, just a reaffirmation of how lucky and wonderful it is to be alive.

Now, whenever I see or think about this stuff it gives me a brief, fleeting sense of perspective on any minor work or other of life’s worries.

The trick, it seems to me, is to find a way of always being aware of that sense of perspective all the time.

Anyone cracked that one?

work in a job that constantly puts you in direct contact with people less fortunate than yourself.

EDIT, reading that back it almost looks like a harsh comment, its really not meant that way at all.

like you i enjoy being reminded how small we are and how minor our lives are compared to..well.. everything! with regards to retaining a sense of perspective about lifes problems i find that my job working with vulnerable adults does the reminding for me. Not the reason i do the job, but it is something i notice.

Yes it was a great program, although a little padded out for my liking.

In terms of always being aware the perspective of time, i think the saying goes : the world keeps turnin’

also says to me, that there is just no way we are alone in this massive expanse of the universe, and Life must have come before us and will come after us, in some shape or form….

is to find a way of always being aware of that sense of perspective all the time.

I’m not sure that would work for me – when I’m doing something it demands my full attention – and were I to relate it to life, the universe and everything I’d probably drop it and go out and lounge in the sun 🙂

were I to relate it to life, the universe and everything I’d probably drop it and go out and lounge in the sun

That’s very true.

Is it possible to function and contribute to our society if you were to think this way? Can you have it both ways with some sort of watered down thought process?

And, yes by the way, in case you were wondering, I HAVE had a shitty day at work and started drinking too much to compensate 😉

Total perspective vortex anyone?

I cant extrapolate from: “it’s an unimaginably vast universe that appears to have repeatable behavior” that: “existence is without meaning”.

I’ll try to catch this on iPlayer as it sounds as good as his other stuff I’ve enjoyed.

Space is big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the drug store, but that’s just peanuts to space.

Rip Douglas Adams.

So there was this big bang thing – we don’t know why. Then, after a few billion years, there’s us. Then, after about 500 million years, the sun blows up and there’s no more us. Then, after millions of trillions of completely GAZILLIONS of year’s decay, there’s just a sort of evenly-distributed soup of protons that sits there doing nothing. For ever.

Bizarre.

No matter how hard you try you will never be able to grasp just how tiny, how spatially unassuming, is a proton. It is just way too small. A proton is an infinitesimal part of an atom, which is itself of course an insubstantial thing. Protons are so small that a little dib of ink like the dot on this i can hold something in the region of 500,000,000,000 of them, rather more than the number of seconds contained in half a million years.

So protons are exceedingly microscopic, to say the very least. Now imagine if you can (and of course you can’t) shrinking one of those protons down to a billionth of its normal size into a space so small that it would make a proton look enormous. Now pack into that tiny, tiny space about an ounce of matter. Excellent. You are ready to start a universe.

I’m assuming of course that you wish to build an inflationary universe. If you’d prefer instead to build a more old-fashioned, standard Big Bang universe, you’ll need additional materials. In fact, you will need to gather up everything there is every last mote and particle of matter between here and the edge of creation and squeeze it into a spot so infinitesimally compact that it has no dimensions at all. It is known as a singularity. In either case, get ready for a really big bang. Naturally, you will wish to retire to a safe place to observe the spectacle.

Unfortunately, there is nowhere to retire to because outside the singularity there is no where. When the universe begins to expand, it won’t be spreading out to fill a larger emptiness. The only space that exists is the space it creates as it goes. It is natural but wrong to visualize the singularity as a kind of pregnant dot hanging in a dark, boundless void. But there is no space, no darkness. The singularity has no “around” around it. There is no space for it to occupy, no place for it to be. We can’t even ask how long it has been there—whether it has just lately popped into being, like a good idea, or whether it has been there forever, quietly awaiting the right moment. Time doesn’t exist. There is no past for it to emerge from. And so, from nothing, our universe begins

Bill Bryson.

Blows my mind everytime i read it..

Mr Woppit – Member
So there was this big bang thing – we don’t know why.

So, what started it then? That’s surely THE question!

The question that these things always brings up for me is this:

If the second law of thermodynamics is true, why are we here? If all systems eventually tend towards entropy then what was the power source that created all of this order and what possible reason do we have to believe that the second law will kick in at some point and lead to the heat death of the universe?

CaptainFlashheart – Member

Mr Woppit – Member
So there was this big bang thing – we don’t know why.

So, what started it then? That’s surely THE question!

Apparently, as there was nothing before it, er – nothing…

Anyone know the make of the cream/beige jacket he was wearing near the beginning? It was rather nice.

Scale of the universe…

http://primaxstudio.com/stuff/scale_of_universe/

Rich_s that is awesome 😯

If the second law of thermodynamics is true, why are we here? If all systems eventually tend towards entropy then what was the power source that created all of this order and what possible reason do we have to believe that the second law will kick in at some point and lead to the heat death of the universe?

The second law of thermodynamics, as Brian Cox said, does not discount the likelyhood of order, all it states is that order is the least likely option and nature will always try to seek the path of highest entropy.
That describes to me a very fluid universe where anything, including life can exist, given the right circumstances. All it does is make it crystal clear how precious and rare life is.

On the related subject of science v religion, I find it ironic that so many people think creation was one or the other. My education was science based, I am not religious and I’ve read a few of the modern classic science books (Brief History of Time, God Delusion sort of stuff) but I find some of the modern theories on the origin of the universe no more plausible than what is taught in Sunday School. How many times is science going to invent another (smaller) particle and then hope someone actually discovers it?

A near death experience every now and then. The feeling is excellent, not a care or a worry in the world. You hear the birds sing and everything. Then over a period of time and scowling neighbours faces you end up letting things wind you up and doing crazy things like paying too much attention to adverts for sofas on the tellybox.

Before you know it you start to believe that the world is full of x-factor fans, or evil terrorists whereas in actual fact what they have you believe to be the majority is actually just the noisy minority.

babble babble waffle

The second law of thermodynamics, as Brian Cox said, does not discount the likelyhood of order, all it states is that order is the least likely option and nature will always try to seek the path of highest entropy.
That describes to me a very fluid universe where anything, including life can exist, given the right circumstances. All it does is make it crystal clear how precious and rare life is.

Yeah, got all that. I guess what I want to know is what is the fuel source that allows the order that we have observed to thrive despite the trends described by the second law.

I spent some time discussing this with a physicist friends of mine and her conclusion was that there must be a vast source of energy elsewhere in the universe that fuels the order in this part of the universe. It is the big question as stated by CFH.

Yes life is unlikely, but it is here despite all of our understanding and Brian Cox’s failure to address this huge gaping hole in our understanding somewhat undermines his attempts to be an authority on the matter. Don’t get me wrong, I rather like floppy haired science guy but he does rather gloss over some of the bigger questions.

Well it was episode one of a series so reserve judgement until the end of the series.

One theory put forward in an earlier Horizon programme was that information and energy was being beamed across the universe by supermassive black holes, and it was this energy and information that forms the building blocks of life.

One thing that programme did was change my mind on the whole concept of time: Up until now I had always thought of time as an abstract concept that was invented by humans to try and control and define us and the universe.

However, the whole concept of decay described by Brian Cox suggests that time is something that is built into the very fabric of the universe and is in fact vital to the existance of the universe and everything in it. But eventually, it will also be the downfall of everything.

The trick, it seems to me, is to find a way of always being aware of that sense of perspective all the time.

Anyone cracked that one?

If you want to feel small, go outside and look at the stars. Or, if it’s cloudy, your most recent mortgage statement.

Well it was episode one of a series so reserve judgement until the end of the series.

True, I will certainly watch the rest of the series.

information and energy was being beamed across the universe

Yeah, I am inclined to believe that there is a lot more to gravity than it just hurting when you take a tumble. 🙂

The most interesting theory I heard was regarding symmetry in the universe, the big bang not being so much an explosion as a violent instantiation. An imperfection in the symmetrical mesh of the matter-less universe caused energy to become matter. Or something. 😕

Still doesn’t answer the question why though…

Does there have to be a “why”?

Does there have to be a “why”?

Yes.

If we are to believe that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, one of the foundations of our understanding of the universe, then yes, it does matter. Otherwise causation is nonsense, physics is rubbish and we may as well make up some fairy story about how it all happened. Then I would be a Christian. That is not an option.

Crikey … 😆

If you want to feel small, go outside and look at the stars. Or, if it’s cloudy, your most recent mortgage statement.

This works very well but I find it hard to carry the feeling/ experience with me for long.
It’s like you get to step out of the game for a bit and are then quickly sucked back in.

billysugger sums it up nicely:

A near death experience every now and then. The feeling is excellent, not a care or a worry in the world. You hear the birds sing and everything. Then over a period of time and scowling neighbours faces you end up letting things wind you up and doing crazy things like paying too much attention to adverts for sofas on the tellybox.

If we are to believe that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, one of the foundations of our understanding of the universe, then yes, it does matter. Otherwise causation is nonsense, physics is rubbish and we may as well make up some fairy story about how it all happened.

I think you’re stretching Newton’s laws further than he would have liked there. They don’t have anything to do with causation outside of the strictly mechanical sense so don’t really apply here I reckon.

Does there have to be a “why”?

No, liberating isn’t it.

i don’t think there has to be a “why?” 🙂

i wonder if he’ll cover chaos theory at any point in the series… that’d be tasty.

A phrase which can help with keeping things in perspective for me is:

“This too shall pass”

“This too shall pass” (Persian: ??? ??? ?????, Hebrew: ?? ?? ??????, Turkish: Bu da geçer) is a proverb indicating that all material conditions, positive or negative, are temporary. The phrase seems to have originated in the writings of the medieval Persian Sufi poets, and is often attached to a fable of a great king who is humbled by the simple words. Some versions of the fable, beginning with that of Attar of Nishapur, add the detail that the phrase is inscribed on a ring, which therefore has the ability to make the happy man sad and the sad man happy. Jewish folklore often describes Solomon as giving or receiving the phrase. The proverb and associated fable were popular in the first half of the 19th century, appearing in a collection of tales by the English poet Edward Fitzgerald and being employed in a speech by Abraham Lincoln before he became president. (wikipedia)

i don’t think there has to be a “why?”

I think the question ‘why’ is important. It embodies the adventuring, exploratory nature of humanity and is the reason we build things like the LHC and Hubble. We are curious, so we try and find out how which leads to the question why. I think it is a basic human imperative and I like it.

I do not see what is liberating about ignorance, blissful or otherwise.

We are curious, so we try and find out how

To quote The Big Yin – “How” is the interesting bit. “Why” is just (makes Native American-type wailing noise) voodoo…

Torminalis – Member

I think the question ‘why’ is important.

i think Nick was referring to the ‘big’ why, and you’re talking about the ‘little’ why.

big why = is there a greater purpose? / surely everything has a meaning? / why do bad things happen to good people? / why aren’t i rich young and beautiful?

little why = how did we get here? / atomic fusion, organic compounds, evolution, the growth of civilisation, and so on.

PS: The universe was not an “instatiation”, it just expanded very, very, very fast.

Expanded – past tense? What made it stop then?

according to our best models of the growth of the universe, there was a very early, very brief, period of very rapid expansion which we’ve called ‘inflation’ – and it’s slowed down a bit since then.

wanna know more about this inflation thing? – then you can bloody google it! 🙂

why aren’t i rich young and beautiful?

Speak for yourself 🙂

little why = how

…

Think about that for a minute..

This is getting heavy. Have you lot been rocking the ganj?

awhiles – AIUI there’s some doubt as to whether those models give a good account for inflation stopping. So either the model’s wrong or inflation hasn’t stopped & the universe is far far bigger than we think. Of course there’s nothing in the rest of it either way.