Winters coming;all inclusive rugby thread.

British cycling work on the basis of 4 year development cycles for olympic success yet it doesn’t stop them from getting a shed load of wc gold medals 😉

My feeling with the Walsh issue is england were not mentally prepared to deal with it properly- the welsh were calm and respectful while the english had the grace of Parisse with the ref 🙂

I still maintain englands most disappointing aspect of the match was their poor response to pressure which only made wales job easier… Even lancaster has commented as much

Agree with DanW.

Thanks for exposing our weaknesses, we’ll be sure to fix it all so that we add another number to the tables that Zokes refers to.

Planning on growing a new front row by then are you?

None of your colonial superiors are moaning about losing to a far better team. If Walsh had been on the money fair, we would still have lost IMO

You are moaning, as are your coaches and media. In fact increasingly they are easing into the subtle suggestion that you lost because of Walsh, it is in the Telegraph and todays Times continues in a similar vein. So by suggesting Walsh wasn’t “on the money fair,”are you suggesting he had an agenda of penalising the England team on purpose? In other words he cheated? The Welsh scrum took us apart the week before, even with God’s prop, England didn’t.

Here is a point, having been miked into the ref at a rabo game,you have no idea how much they talk to top level players,and not just the skipper. If Robshaw is constantly in his ear about one thing over and over, if the ref doesn’t see it as a problem he will tell him and then wave him away. Likewise it is easier to say to a player,”watch your offside,you were borderline last breakdown.” than call across the captain to relay it. All refs do it at all levels and rightly so. Maybe we should go back to decisions with no explaination at all?

Planning on growing a new front row by then are you?

No, just ironing out the weaknesses in the existing one.

What’s your plan to add to that table?

Planning on growing a new front row by then are you?

Don’t forget some wingers… 😀

What’s your plan to add to that table?

Aw petal,still a wee bit sore?

Well Zokes, continuing to expect my team to perform according to their abilities and resources and if it improves my countries standings,great.It’s called realism,and after all is only a game. However unlike you,I don’t view sporting success as my birthright, it would seem the English often,and in quite a nasty way,view sport as a way of vidicating an outdated nationalistic sense of superiority.And I include Twickenham crowds in this from experience. And when you fall short there has to be reasons outwith your own control such as a ref.

So bearing in mind that Lancaster was saying that Saturday was a prep for the big games in 2015, whats your plan?

However unlike you,I don’t view sporting success as my birthright,

The football club I support is Bolton Wanderers, I supported English cricket long before 2005, 1966 was 17 years before I was born. I’m puzzled as to how I view sporting success as my birthright. You appear (not for the first time, certainly not for the last) to be grossly mistaken.

Having lived in Bangor for ten years though, and having a Welsh wife, I can safely say that when it comes to Rugby, a lot of the Welsh do view success as a birthright. Beating the English doubly so. I suggest you find the last rugby thread and look at posts from around the time this happened:

It might jog your memory.

So bearing in mind that Lancaster was saying that Saturday was a prep for the big games in 2015, whats your plan?

My plan is to watch the game. I suspect Lancaster is the one you need to consult on English rugby’s training techniques.

Wales didn’t do that to any other team at scrum time, and nor did anyone else do it to England, suggesting that they are not as bad scrummagers as appeared in the Wales game, nor are Wales as good as they were in the England game?

wales had the upperhand v ireland in the scrum and demolished italy and scotland too. They also demolished the england scrum last season.

Still on the subject of scrums…

“I don’t buy this whole ‘streetwise’ thing,” Rowntree said

I have no idea how you discount being smart, being streetwise, gamesmanship whatever you want to interpret it as in any modern professional sport.

Seems Mr. Rowntree still isn’t happy too

Also funny:

Lancaster will be without a number of his senior players for the four-match trip to south America in June, with the likes of Robshaw, Tom Croft and Dan Cole among those set for British and Irish Lions duty.

I quite liked how Phil V brought up the selection of coaching staff on Scrum V for the Lions tour with it very possible that certain selections were political rather than purely on ability. None of us could possibly know enough to comment but it was interesting he still brought it up.

it would seem the English often,and in quite a nasty way,view sport as a way of vidicating an outdated nationalistic sense of superiority.And I include Twickenham crowds in this from experience

Oh, come on duckman. Why would you stoop to this level?

On the front row thing……….

a) England got stuffed, but
b) they’re best loose head (Corbisiero) wasn’t playing
c) Marler and Vuni-wotsit are both about 22
d) Cole is 26 I think
e) Youngs is about 12
f) Wales are pretty sneaky in the scrum, but fair ‘enuff, they get away with it. Didn’t Hibbett say they deliberately didn’t hit against Scotland, thereby making it look as though Scotland were pushing early?; and I think there was some talk of them dropping the scrum deliberately against England
g) So yeah there is a chance of Eng growing a new front row
h) bigger problem is the backs (as usual……….)

Oh, come on duckman. Why would you stoop to this level?

It’s fairly self explanatory, I would have thought.

On the front row thing……….

a) England got stuffed but

FTFY.

FTFY.

Suits us downtrodden English. You world beating (oh, you’ve not? sorry…) Welsh can carry on with your superiority complex, and we’ll become the Englishman’s favourite sporting entity – the underdog.

Halfpenny has cleared Croft of spitting – good to see. Link

Regarding the “source”, Parling is on record as saying a welsh prop admitted to collasping scrums 5 or 6 times post match. He also said, fair enough if you can get away with it which seeems at odds to Rowntree. Read into that what you will.

Oh, come on duckman. Why would you stoop to this level?

It’s fairly self explanatory, I would have thought.

Posted 6 minutes ago # Report-Post[/quote]

Go on then Zokes, explain it to me….

Or did I misread, you weren’t really complaining about the ref? and to suggest so would make me “grossly mistaken” (gosh, what a sense of your own importance you have,it’s a thread about rugby)

whether Walsh actually does have a bias against England I can’t say. I suspect it’s all three to one extent or another.

EDIT: I should add that there were plenty of groans from England supporters prior to the game about Walsh. If nothing else, that demonstrates a perceived previous history. England do seem to have lost a rather disproportionate number of games with him officiating – there reaches a point where that stops being related solely to the team’s performance on the day.

There are a couple of examples of you not moaning about the ref.Puts whatever that post above with Warburton was about into context….

Wales’ stunning victory over England in Cardiff on Saturday taught us many things but perhaps the most important lesson was handed down by capacity Millennium Stadium crowd. A 74,000 capacity crowd generated a rare and thrilling atmosphere that helped propel the home side to glory but in doing so they ended all hope of them playing host to their 2015 Rugby World Cup pool game against England. World Cup organisers may be keen to ensure venue agreements and financial targets are set, but they are not going to jeopardise the hosts’ chances by offering Wales such a significant advantage.

That’s good. Our best front row for me is Corbs, Kiwi Thug and Cole. Hartley seems to have had a real drop in form this season though.

anagallis_arvensis – Member
wales had the upperhand v ireland in the scrum ….

You must still be drunk. Fair enough, rose coloured beer goggles. Enjoy it.
Moving on…

Anyway, all this moaning “debate” about Walsh and scrums is irrelevant. Man for man, I don’t see a single position where the English team got the upper hand on Saturday.
Even without the scrum, Wales beat England in the backs.

England had nothing to match Wales from 10 back: Biggar, North, Roberts, Davies, Cuthbert , Halfpee.
That’s where all the points came from.

You wouldn’t drop a single one of them if you were picking a side from the two teams’ displays on Saturday.

Corbs seems to have built up a reputation, based on what i’m not sure.

Some time ago I asked AA what where the chances of the awesome welsh backrow all being fit and on form by England match, but just got emailed a load of pics of Gavin in his briefs 😉 What the match illustrated to me is Wales do have proven highly skilled operators but i look at that Englad starting 15 in a very average 6 nations and just feel a bit flat. However, come the Lions i’m convinved a few English players will make huge reputations for themselves.

England are seeking clarity, the press are putting their spin on it. They are unhappy with Walsh and have history with him, some raw nerves I suspect. Lancaster has admitted that England were stuffed and didn’t turn up, he is not seeking to blame the ref for the loss, nor are most on here.

1/2p – an outstanding player and outstanding person too from the bits I’ve read about him. He keeps going up in my estimation.

Even without the scrum, Wales beat England in the backs. England had nothing to match Wales from 10 back

Bit harsh on little Mike 😀

Can someone summarise all of this “Walsh history” with the key facts of why he hates England (genuine question)?

Go on then Zokes, explain it to me….

I would suggest that with a post as crass as that, it was you who needed to do some explaining

Or did I misread, you weren’t really complaining about the ref?

You didn’t misread, you selectively quoted, weakening your argument further.

Puts whatever that post above with Warburton was about into context….

If you’d actually read it, you’d see that the post was refuting your claim that I saw sporting success as a birthright. Which as brainless as it was, was about the least stupid thing you’d said in that last post.

Can someone summarise all of this “Walsh history” with the key facts of why he hates England (genuine question)?

Not just the English, it seems…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Walsh_(rugby_referee)

He was the guy at the centre of the shitstorm we England had 16 players on the pitch in 2003. He kicked up rather a fuss in the tunnel etc.

Anyway, isn’t it the London Welsh appeal today? I wonder how that will go?

Zokes,You posted two threads doing the “Wales were the better team but”…including the quotes I posted above.I couldn’t be bothered to post the whole ramble.Feel free to play any variation on the Edinburgh defense you wish. You are the new,but sadly much less likeable, TJ and I claim my £5.

I dunno why people talk about the world cup when discussing England now. It was a completely different team and coach…

Duckman, Zokes – I want a word please. Any more of this arguing and I’ll have no choice but to bring out a yellow card. Now – scrum down.. oh wait, not a good idea…

Seems like Walsh is on the up career wise (probably couldn’t go much lower) but what was specifically wrong with England?

Warning taken Molgrips.

Dan; Walsh likes it to be all about him. Warburton tugging his forlock when talking to him would go down very well. Other approaches may have been tried by other teams in a lighter strip that ruffled his feathers.
In the past
He also (rumour has it) offered an English coach outside. This is where the hatred of England is supposed to have begun. (See telling Shane Horgan to go and duck himself if he didn’t like a decision for Irish conspiracy theory/ Sacking for being pished for NZ theory)
On his day, he provides a really good game as it is generally considered (among refs) that he refs competition at the breakdown better than any other elite ref.

duckman – Member
Zokes,You posted two threads doing the “Wales were the better team but”…including the quotes I posted above.I couldn’t be bothered to post the whole ramble.Feel free to play any variation on the Edinburgh defense you wish. You are the new,but sadly much less likeable, TJ and I claim my £5.

You could save all this claptrap if you just read the other part of my posts, one of which is below:

zokes – Member
I’m happy to concede that England were thrashed by a much better team. I even enjoyed watching it – not from a sadistic self-harming PoV, more an exhibition of how to ruthlessly put another team to the sword.

In my eyes, the only ‘turning point’ was Tualangi ineffectually using his face, rather than his hands to catch a pass that would have left him under the posts eraly in the game, with support on the wing. Beyond that, in my eyes the ref didn’t help, but certainly wasn’t the reason we lost.

As you say, we’ve benefited from iffy decisions / missed forward passes before now. I’m happy enough to concede that on this occasion the dice controlling the ref came up snake eyes for England, and maybe that’s just the luck of the draw. I still think Walsh is a poor ref, with a very poor record when officiating against England. Whether that’s just my one-eyedness, chance that England always perform badly when Walsh refs us, or whether Walsh actually does have a bias against England I can’t say. I suspect it’s all three to one extent or another.

Now stop trying to pick an argument where there is none. All teams bleat when they’re beaten, Wales in the last RWC being a very notable example, with plenty of the distasteful comments you’re happy to tar all English with, yet are happy to hurl about yourself.

I’m still confused by this post of yours though, which as I’ve discussed, makes absolutely no sense, yet you seem to not want to discuss that:

Well Zokes, continuing to expect my team to perform according to their abilities and resources and if it improves my countries standings,great.It’s called realism,and after all is only a game. However unlike you,I don’t view sporting success as my birthright, it would seem the English often,and in quite a nasty way,view sport as a way of vidicating an outdated nationalistic sense of superiority.And I include Twickenham crowds in this from experience. And when you fall short there has to be reasons outwith your own control such as a ref.

The latter point being particularly salient to Warburton; hence my reference to that incident. Warburton deserved the red card, it wasn’t harsh, it wasn’t unlucky, it was just. You were subsequently beaten by a better French team. Didn’t stop you all having a good moan about it though. Plenty Welsh (on here and elsewhere) seemed to think that Alain Rolland was a French name and therefore he must be French and shouldn’t have been reffing the match.

Actually, I do now see where it came from, you’re still sulking that whilst on a fairly regular basis you can beat England, but every time it matters in the big one, you end up on an early plane home. Really sad having an inferiority complex like that.

Walsh likes it to be all about him

Do you think?

He also (rumour has it) offered an English coach outside

I read that Reddan made it quite clear that he would welcome the opportunity, Walsh just threw water at him.

Really sad having an inferiority complex like that.

I think the country as a whole has an inferiority complex – that’s why our rugby team’s success is so important, and it’s also why it’s been such a long road trying to get our team into a professional outfit that can back itself to properly fight for and win hard matches.

I do think the whole English are arrogant/expect success arhuement is a bit much in the context of this thread duckman….yes we’ve had a whinge (did you see what happened) though we have kept adding the caveat that Walsh’s decisions didn’t affect the result it seems to be ignored….Wales were better 1-15 than us.

Lets all play nicely again now please

f) Wales are pretty sneaky in the scrum, but fair ‘enuff, they get away with it. Didn’t Hibbett say they deliberately didn’t hit against Scotland, thereby making it look as though Scotland were pushing early?; and I think there was some talk of them dropping the scrum deliberately against England

no thats not what was said at all. Wales dont cheat at the scrum (no more than anyone else) why would they they have a strong scrum.

Hmm, all this crap about the ref, I’m not sure I approve. I especially do not like the fact that england are going to complain. Aside from it being not very “stiff upper lip”, but if there was an issue, surely the IRB bods would have noticed anyway?

It’s not good, I would rather we accepted the loss for what it was and not allow doubt/blame of others to come in to it. We lost cos Wales were better, end of.

Sorry Molgrips; 😀

Actually, I do now see where it came from, you’re still sulking that whilst on a fairly regular basis you can beat England, but every time it matters in the big one, you end up on an early plane home. Really sad having an inferiority complex like that.

Really? I have never had an inferiority complex about sporting expectations for Scotland, as I have none.Feel free to cite anything in the 100 odd pages in which I have been anything other than self-depreciating about Scotland. Also our record against England would suggest we cannot even win the little games.I just want to stop losing to Italy. Apologies to fellow users for the spat.

We lost cos Wales were better, end of.

+1

Happy now, duckface?

Stealth edit response stealth edit 8)

FWIW, I did still really enjoy the match, just a pity I wasn’t watching it anywhere where there were people actually interested in rugby at all. (Other than my Welsh wife, Scottish friend, and Canadian(!) boss (oh, and STW)). Living in South Australia you really wouldn’t even know the Wallabies existed, never mind the six nations!

Give us a cuddle Boakes (stealth edit completed) 8)

Oh and Zokes could you shut the **** up and take your dull and boring little opinions elswhere?