Winters coming;all inclusive rugby thread.

first this would be to remove walsh from any ref position he holds. Not for his anti england bias but for his extremely dodgy history.

Can someone, anyone give me some stoned cold examples of what Walsh did wrong? Kryton I think mentioned the first scrum pen and Hibbard popped up but I’ve re watched it, wales were going forward and Youngs is the first up its hard to spot though as he’s a midget and on the other side from the camera.He missed a few bits and bobs here and there like an early tackle on Biggar I think early on that gifted the ball to England but in general he got most things right. He contributed to making it a good game to watch for the neutrals and is a much better ref than Joubert or Clancy or a number of others.

As I said its his somewhat chequered history that I have issues with, a ref should not have picked fights with team management, or have been sacked from being a ref due to turning up drunk at an IRB ref conference, and abusing shane horgan.
Not exactly the sort of person that should get respect. He should however be in football maybe?

Thing is a_a ‘what you want’ from a Lions captain is for him to be Welsh….preferably with Warburton for a surname. Fair enough, but your trying to find fault with Robshaw is becoming daft now. Hovis has been as good as any player in the last two games….prior to that I’d argue that he wasn’t ‘pretty good’ but about as effective as Tom Croft was yesterday….he got dropped and has lost his captaincy don’t forget.

Nope I wouldnt want Warburton as captain, not sure who should be captain. But dont lets forget Warburton got injured and wasnt dropped. Robshaw seems like a good player but at his best is no where near world class. A lions captain should be world class like Johnson or BOD.

He shoved a player a fortnight ago when he complained at a blatant wrong decision.

Thing is with the first decision on the scrum, the scrum shouldn’t be moving before the ball is in should it? Add to the fact that Hibbard at best stood up at the same time as Cole then for me a penalty to Wales is ludicrous, it was all over from then on.

Sorry my above post is aimed at the first on this page….

As an aside, how close do you think that Powell is to the Wales squad, or has that ship sailed now?

Did those big bully boys push in the scrum!! Dry you eyes mate!

penalty to Wales is ludicrous

was a free kick anyway 😆

😆

I’ll take that as an agreement that it was a dubious call.

BOD was world class is he world class now?

I think Mungos ship has sailed.

Tom why would Goldilocks pop up when they were driving forward if he hadn’t been taken up by Youngs coming apart?

BOD was world class is he world class now?

Dont think so, who is though out of the British… Adam is….. the interviews would be ace…..

I was trying to think of a better tight head than Adam earlier….I couldn’t.

I think that 1/2p probably is too.

If robshaw isn’t world class, then who is in terms of lions selection?
The only one I would consider as being able to break into a world xv is north, and he’s no captain.

Not two who strike you as captain material though.

The only one I would consider as being able to break into a world xv is north, and he’s no captain.

indeed

maybe we can sneak Parisse in as a wildcard 😆

The trouble with the scrum is that they’ve messed with it so much that each ref has their own interpretation. I think the experience in the Welsh pack means they recognised how the ref was playing it and took advantage.

Anyone reckon Sherri could end up going as a wildcard. He has been playing amazingly well at toulon. And its not as if the aussies are scared of him at all!

Powell should be going on his form of late…..I’m a proper fanboi of his, but he really does look back to his form of 4/5 years ago. Can England claim him if Wales don’t want him? We’re stuck with fatty bumbum atm 😕

If robshaw isn’t world class, then who is in terms of lions selection?

Sexton?

Sorry, I don’t think sexton is world class. Carter, steyn and cooper are better players.
Tom, I think we’ll see big billy v filling that slot in the not too distant future.

Yeah I’ve not seen too much of him but his brother has impressed me. Morgan still has plenty to offer IMO too.

I’d rate Sexton way better than Quade Cooper fwiw.

Carter clearly out on his own but he is up there with the rest, therefore world class.

Sexton wouldn’t make a world XV. Sorry, but that’s the yardstick. I don’t rate him as much better than Farrell or biggar personally.

*prepares to be flamed*

I’m sorry but I don’t think this is going to be a classic heroic winning lions team we can all believe in. Who’d be Gatland eh? He’s got the wrong problem – not that of a glut of world class players to choose from, but a glut of (in the main) second tier players from which to make a world class team.

*hides*

By that yardstick only 15 players in the world are world class….and only Dan Carter is a world class 10!

Lions need a team and it will be Gatlands to get balance.
Beattie will be eight I thinks with Warburton and Tip
Wyn Jones and Launchberry second
Adam Jones Best Healy front

Philips and Sexton (sexton is not world class yet)

Roberts and BOD centres but this open to debate

North and Cuthbert/

Halfpenny

I think one of the biggest issues with the modern scrum compared to the old style is the power and size of the players in the modern game. If they were just left to their own devices like the old days it would be a very dangerous place. But, this recent iteration of rules and their application seems worse than ever in terms of actually getting a scrum going.

As for players who are world class, I’m not sure if many, if any home nations players count there. Just look at the southern hemisphere teams, the ABs (forgetting their hiccup in Twickers) in particular.

Just been reading this[/url]
Interesting research on the effect of the changes in the game over the past 10ish years on the scrum and engagement process

The thing about the Kiwis is that they have 2 of the greatest of all time currently in the line up. What they do so well is play as a cohesive unit and 95% of the time they play calmly. They can be undone but it is rare.

By that yardstick only 15 players in the world are world class….and only Dan Carter is a world class 10!

Not really. Sexton isn’t even in the top 3.

And Quade Cooper is? Don’t think so

On the ongoing Hibbard pen stooshie,Wales were going forward and the English front row was split. He had no where to go, he couldn’t go straight on as he had no shoulder to scrum against,couldn’t go down as the English players legs were in the way. Key issue for a ref is WHY he popped up. Even watching it on telly I thought pen as soon as it happened.

Take away any issues with his scrum control and England still conceded enough points to ensure Wales won it. Give it long enough and the history books will show that Wales won because Walsh groped Farrell as he composed himself for his kicks at goal (Making Inverdale red with envy)

Here is the thing guys,the elite guys ref a certain way,I would be willing to bet the stats on what Walsh gives scrum pens for are broadly the same. Therefore a coach can play them,as should a professional player.

England lost out in the scrums because their scrum wasnt strong enough. You can spin it anyway you like but thats the bottom line.

England lost out in the scrums because their scrum wasnt strong enough. You can spin it anyway you like but thats the bottom line.

I think, on the evidence of this weekend, you could apply that to pretty much all aspects of the game.

But, they’re a relatively young side that has promise. Earlier in the tournament against poorer opposition that was enough to string together a series of wins. Coming up against an experienced Welsh side that hit form at just the right time, they got shown for what they were. Which at this stage is simply an inexperienced side. I think the BBC flagged up a stat before the match that only five of the starters had even played Wales in Cardiff before.

Duckman – didn’t he penealize England for standing up though, I think that is the issue.

wales did have the upper hand not in dispute but not to the extent that it was ref’ed I feel. Obviously hard to tell from TV when you aren’t along side the scrum and appreciate that you know about all matters ref’ing more than most. Think someone said that Wales played the ref better and think that has a lot to do with it personally. Part of being a professional sportsman is playing to the official.

Still think he is a poor ref though. There does seem to be a lot of inconsistency in the way the game is officiated. Thought Owens was quite good in the last game though.

In all the joy/despair at the end of the 6 Nations campaign Quinns victory over Sale in the LV cup seems to have slipped by un noticed.

LV must be wondering why they bother to sponsor a comp where the final is played on the same weekend as the Grand Slam/championship decider 😕

Bear, he did pen England, but it is who stops the scrum from functioning, not who stood up/etc. Obviously if a prop has no bind and goes straight to ground it is pretty obvious who is at fault. But of the people complaining, do you think Wales are going to shunt England back, get the ball to the 8’s feet and then stand up? Bearing in mind that doing so is a lottery in the modern game.And the modern game is all about percentages. Walsh apparenty got hammered at the elite refs convention and said a few things. No suprise that,(getting bladdered)even the ones up here in scotchland have a free bar 😯

In fact wales pretty much did the same, until they suddenly woke up and then executed some great passing

Isn’t that a common game plan though? Keep it tight for 40 or 60 mins, then when people are tired open it up?

Thing is with the first decision on the scrum, the scrum shouldn’t be moving before the ball is in should it? Add to the fact that Hibbard at best stood up at the same time as Cole then for me a penalty to Wales is ludicrous

It was actually a free kick awarded against Ben Youngs for not putting the ball in quickly enough. the scrum was moving though, probably because both packs were trying to win the hit. Most of the later srcums were more stable prior to the put in, possibly because Wales were content to take the hit in the knowledge that they had the upper hand

Poor little Shove, he does get picked on

Thing is with the first decision on the scrum, the scrum shouldn’t be moving before the ball is in should it? Add to the fact that Hibbard at best stood up at the same time as Cole then for me a penalty to Wales is ludicrous

18.18 here shows the scrum from the other side marler was on his knees
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rdln2/Scrum_V_2012_2013_Six_Nations_Special/

from about 24 mins you get Vickery’s views