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Looks like Dowsett only has Nibs to worry about
I would argue that only on mega money Sky would those guys be domestiques.
Doesn't matter though - it's a team thing, they knew the score when they signed up for it. Helping a member of your team to win overall means extra spoils for everyone.
If they're not happy, they're free to look elsewhere at the end of the seaosn but for now, they just have to get on with the job in hand.
Part of the problem is that the mainstream media are talking this up like it's a ceremonial parade round Italy and Brad gets a nice pink jersey at the end of it. He, and the team, are going to have to fight every inch of the way for this. Only if there is a catastrophic accident for Brad is there going to be any talk of a Plan B of letting one of the other guys run free.
This is pretty much the same way that Lance and US Postal ran - everyone works to get one person over the line first. Problems always arise when you've got two leaders or try and do too much (like go for Yellow and Green at the Tour).
In some ways watching Brad struggle a bit reminds us how amazing the Tour win was. At the time it some times looked too easy. Now we can see that there were others to beat and you can loose time on any stage.
Yes I know last years tour was more his sort of route. But he still had to ride it faster than anyone else. If Nibali didn't have a very aerodynamic position last year well that's him and his teams fault...
Basically what has happened is he has been forced to ride this one clean and he just cannot compete 😈
And of course Dowsett has moved to a Spanish team and got faster. Make of that what you will.
And of course Dowsett has moved to a Spanish team and got faster. Make of that what you will.
I think thats very unfair on Dowsett, current British TT Champion.
I don't really think that's the case. It was a tongue in cheek response to the comment above.
Fair play!
Wiggins isn't in an ideal position but only because Cadel and Nibali rode so well today. Wiggins himself had a fantastic result considering his puncture. He hasn't had much luck all week really. But still 4th place in the GC and anything could happen yet.
Both Cadel and Nibali are looking serious though.
It's very much Nibali's to loose now - it'll take a crash or failed drugs test to knock him off top spot now.
Cadel Evans to fade - also has his own internal contest with Phinney.
Nibali - probably the real contender - but has been shown up by Team Sky tactics before.
My money on Wiggo to rise to second against Nibali by end of next week as long as their is no more incidents. If i was team sky mechanic i would be changing them tyres for soemthing else.
Bring on the big hills. That will sort things out. Love the Giro!
What exactly would the sky mechanics change them for 🙄
Nibs looks like the real deal to me. Cuddles will struggle in the mountains I think. Even in good form I can't see Wiggo having a minute and a half's worth of gains on Nibs this year.
On watching the coverage 'Wiggins' actually had a pretty good TT considering the mechanical , still 'Dowsett' played an absolute blinder . 'Cadel' is great to watch when descending , totally balls out.
Good Tv though.
After this last week I'd (as someone who knows next to nothing about gt racing) put henao up front as team leader with uran in support and wiggins taking on the kireyenko (sp?) role.
Henao can do nibali on the mtf's any day of the week and get those few seconds back.
Plus this would help my fantasy giro quite a bit...
they're free to look elsewhere at the end of the seaosn but for now,
all the rumours are that one or both of them are...
All looking a bit nervous in the peloton at the moment, about to start a descent, slightly wet & cold and all the favourites are trying to move up to the front to stay out of trouble.
Heavier weight tubular - maybe they should add some more stans goop if they are running tubelss?? Risk with race tyres - they always go for the lightest weight - but it's a trade off with ability to cope with punctures, especially in wet weather where the grit can work into the tyre and cause slow punctures.
Also allowing new tyres to cure for a period helps - dare I type his name Armstrong use to keep a stock of tyres and hang them to cure for years!!
When your race favourite these little gains count.
Looks like Wiggo is struggling today. Looking less and less likely he's going to pull off the Tour-Giro double...
Wiggins descending like he's riding a chair again. A bit embarrassing really.
So who are the [i]STW(new road cyclists)[/i] going to transfer their affections to now, seeing as Bradley's not very good any more?
So who are the STW(new road cyclists) going to transfer their affections to now, seeing as Bradley's not very good any more?
Gesink? Always had a soft spot for (the former) Rabobank and he didn't lose tonnes of time in the TT, surprisingly.
Well he's back in the Nibali group after that chase back on, let's see how he gets on down this descent.
Great ride by Belkov today and he's descending really well.
Anyone see that Astana rider sliding all the way across the road and into a wall on the earlier descent? Ouch!
Just turned on. Why is Wiggo working his way back into the field? Mechanical or just poor performance?
Why is Wiggo working his way back into the field? Mechanical or just poor performance?
He got dropped on the descent of the 1st Cat climb in the middle of the stage (to be fair, it was pissing it down) and the team basically TTT'd him back into the Nibali group. He's used that last little climb to work his way back up.
Bloody hell, Ryder Hesjedal is going out the back!
Come on Ryder!
what is wiggins doing at the back of the peleton?
Wow hesjedal 2.40 down.
Wiggins will loose time if he doesn't move up.
Wiggins will loose time if he doesn't move up.
Shouldn't do if he crossed the line as part of the bunch.
Hesjedal's going to struggle to make that up.
wiggo was in the group - but its not v convincing is it?
ryder lost 1-06 on nibali
All the gaps between the top contenders are still no bigger than a half decent attack in the mountains would close or overcome. Still heaps of interest in this race.
All the gaps between the top contenders are still no bigger than a half decent attack in the mountains would close or overcome. Still heaps of interest in this race.
Unfortunately the best climber has a gap on all the others and just has to follow attacks.
this will be very interesting if it stays dry as wiggo (and a few others) will have to attack on the climbs unless he has massive faith in the next TT
The next TT is only 20.6km; not sure how much of a difference that can make.
...and the next TT is a mountain course.
Not too good for a guy who isnt too confident on the downs.
There's no descending in the mountain TT (nothing significant anyway)
no point in it being easy/following a plan
where is the excitement? ITV4 kicking themselves for not getting coverage?
this will be very interesting if it stays dry as wiggo (and a few others) will have to attack on the climbs
Has that happened? Ever?
that's why it'll be interesting - we'll see if he can, rather than just ride hard all the way upHas that happened? Ever?
Well they say he's been working on his explosive climbing. I've got my doubts if he can produce anything to worry Nibali but I'm not willing to write him off just yet.
Contador, for sureI've got my doubts if he can produce anything to worry Nibali
Nibali seems to have 50 good yards in him but then slows down from the little I've watched in the past
I think Evans is the only real competition for Nibali as he just never gives up, but really, I think Nibali could easily win by 5+ minutes if he wanted to.
Contador, for sure
Contador isn't riding the Giro...
...and that's [b][i]why[/i][/b] it'll be interesting (he "only" has to ride away from Nibali/Evans & co)Contador isn't riding the Giro...
Just watched "The spectacular attacks of Bradley Wiggins" on YouTube. That's 10 seconds of my life I'll never get back.
Has he hired Mandy Schlecks descending coach? Is there a specific reason why he looks SO uncomfortable descending? Lack of trust in rims/brakes/tyres? Getting physically cold?
Makes for an interesting open race and I'd love to see him take it on and attack but he really doesn't look happy.
ITV4 kicking themselves for not getting coverage?
I'm led to believe they [i]wanted[/i] to cover it, but unlike the Tour the budget wouldn't stretch to what the organisers wanted for the highlights.
If Wiggins is struggling with the cold / wet descents / a stomach bug or whatever, I'd say it was a decent performance to be in touch at the end.
And to be in 4th position overall so far....not exactly a disaster is it? Even if that's the way it finishes.
It wasn't so long ago, we'd have British riders struggling to finish a grand tour, let alone 'struggling' to stay in contention for the win.
Unfortunately the best climber has a gap on all the others and just has to follow attacks
Easy then...
Have Team Sky not got any drugs to help them get DOWN the mountains?
Have Team Sky not got any drugs to help them get DOWN the mountains?
Some sloe gin, loosens me right up...
😆Have Team Sky not got any drugs to help them get DOWN the mountains?
And to be in 4th position overall so far....not exactly a disaster is it? Even if that's the way it finishes.
Yeah, it's pretty good really. I think the thing with Wiggins, is he does often look like he's struggling, especially on the climbs. He was exactly the same at the Tour last year. And that's how the whole Froome/Wiggins thing got blown up in the media. He's not the most exciting rider by any means.
When guys like Nibali and Cadel go, they make an impression. Froome too, and plenty of other guys. Wiggins never [i]looks[/i] fast. But to struggle in the hills the way he does, then bimble down the other side like a newborn lamb every time it rains (which has been all week really), he must be pretty bloody quick to make up for that and hold the position he has. Credit where credit is due.
I for one think its all the more exciting because Brad is struggling. He's 4th and is within a shout - but he's going to have to find something very special to beat Nibali.
Wiggo also cannot afford any more mishaps.
The suspense is building ... Which is exactly what makes a good race really great to watch. 😀
Come on Brad!
It has been mentioned that he may be suffering from the same bug his team mate had a few days ago. That would make sense as he does seem to be really struggling. It does not explain though why he is so bad going around corners/down hill!!
yes its the way he is riding downhill that looks so awful - I know he had a fall a couple of days ago but still
Come on Brad! +1
I don't recall him being such a relative disaster downhill in previous races ? Something like new tyres maybe ? Or could it just be a mental block after throwing it on the floor a bit ?
Wet roads and good descenders who are taking risks.
... Or could it just be a mental block after throwing it on the floor a bit ?
My guess is this. Combined with the fact that he knows taking it cautiously will lose him (tens of) seconds whereas a crash may put him out of the race altogether. If you're not feeling right then maybe it's best to not take too many risks, try not to lose too much time and hope you come good again sooner rather than later.
Maybe Brad needed to come on here and ask 'what tyres for wet italian roads?'
It has been very wet. Did you see the stage finish the other day with about a foot of water crossing the finish line? The same finish that the 2nd rider through fell off taking the pack behind out. Its been phenomenally wet, and i don't think it matters how good a rider you are in those conditions. Its just luck if you stay upright.
Brad would be happier not to have lost any time to Nibali, but the stage tomorrow will show us how his form is, and if he has a chance to win the giro. I hope its dry
Must be a confidence and wet road thing as he normally is a good decender. He was pushing it on the front on some of the descents in races earlier this year and pulling out gaps.
Sets things up nicely for the rest of the week now though as some big names will have to go on the attack if they want to be on any step of the podium. Anyone know what the forecast in northern Italy is like for this week?
I think we need little bit of perspective about Wiggins "poor" descending
Wiggins lost about a minute on that descent yesterday, with Astana taking all sorts of risks to drop him. On the flat both Astana AND Garmin were going full bore to try and keep the gap, but Sky just rode straight up to them.
Wiggins looked quite comfortable at the foot of the last climb and it was hesjedal that went out the back.
Result was that Garmin shot themselves in the foot, Nibali hasn't gained any time when racing to his strengths and Wiggins is being written off as a contender.
Not sure how Wiggins can gain time on Nibali without a long TT, but his position is pretty good.
I think we need little bit of perspective about Wiggins "poor" descending
I think by his own standards he has been poor. Plenty of racing still to come though.
I think to quote the man himself yesterday - "I was descending like a girl"
Some good photos over at [url= http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/giro-ditalia-rider-galleries-bradley-wiggins ]cyclingnews[/url], it's been pretty grim out there. And riders like Wiggo who have to lose a lot of mass in the run up to a grad tour will really not be appreciating the cold and wet.
I think to quote the man himself yesterday - "I was descending like a girl"
I like that interview with him; seemed a bit more himself.
Friday's stage he definitely just lost his bottle on the descent. Nibali binned it and was up and on his bike and at full speed in about 20s. Wiggins just rolled down really and only got back to full speed when they had to TT onto the back of the pack.
I think it's now Nibali's to lose, his TT performance has increased enough to keep him in contention there, he's a good climber with a good set of team mates and is prepared to take risks to win a grand tour.
Question...
I may have missed something here, but why don't Sky have their big climbers riding in this ? Kiriyenka of course, Froome, possibly Bosen-Hagen, Porte even Thomas ?
I'd have thought they'd have the best team possible there ?
good question - are they really supporting wiggo this year?
I may have missed something here, but why don't Sky have their big climbers riding in this ? Kiriyenka of course, Froome, possibly Bosen-Hagen, Porte even Thomas ?I'd have thought they'd have the best team possible there ?
From what I picked up from the commentary on Eurosport, this is a really good team. Sky are just good/big enough that they can field two almost entirely different teams for the Giro and Tour - as I understand it Wiggins will be the only rider to do both.
The answer to that based upon the support he's getting on the hills is... No they're not... .they're a good team... but not a REALLY good team.
I can understand it's a bloody hard race, so doing both is tough etc... but it's almost like they gave up before even going there with the team they've put out.
The team time trial showed they're at the sharp end, of course... but in the hilly stages Brad seems to be FAR less protected than you'd expect.
Weeksy - Froome and Porte are targeting Le Tour this year. Boasen-Hagen and Thomas have just finished the classics season so aren't in the right nick for a grand tour.
Sky have got Henao, Uran and Siutsou supporting Wiggins - all of whom are superb climbers (and probably represent lans B, C and D respectively).
"wiggo (and a few others) will have to attack on the climbs"
Has that happened? Ever?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-de-france-2012/stage-17/results
weeksy - Member
Question...I may have missed something here, but why don't Sky have their big climbers riding in this ? Kiriyenka of course, Froome, possibly Bosen-Hagen, Porte even Thomas ?
I'd have thought they'd have the best team possible there ?
Apart for Froome and maybe Porte, I would say Henao and Uran are the best climbers sky have, so I wouldn't say it's a weak team at all. It's just mainly come down to Wiggins doesn't like the wet anyway, descending or not, I think I am right in saying he's not keen on cold/wet weather generally and also his descending skills are not up there with Nabali or Evans. But still two weeks to go, he's on the back foot but it's hardly over for him.
Just having a quick look at those pics on cyclingnews site got me thinking. It seems to me a question of physics. Brad has got long, skinny legs, with a comparatively larger bulk above his saddle/stem line. His recent 'upright' descending means he has even more mass above that line, not helped by having lots of post out. Now, surely its all about relative pivot points...the more weight you have further off the tarmac, means the likelihood of toppling over increases dramatically. You look at the shit descenders...Schlecks, Ryder and now Wiggo...all have similar builds. Look at the good descenders...Nibali, Contador, Evans...they all have a smaller frame with (what looks to me) more relative weight in their legs. Brad used to get right down on the top tube during descents, and it seems to me the wet surface has knocked his confidence, however he'll never get the skill back if he carries on descending in an upright position. So, what are the chances of using a dropper post on a road bike? 🙂
Wonders if dropper posts are UCI legal?
Just remember, a fall in the 2011 Tour put him out. Im sure that's still sitting in the back of his mind.
A whole season/year of building up for it only for it to be wiped out that easily, I know I might be a bit wary descending if I was constantly falling and see lots of other riders falling around me too.
Given the conditions I think Wiggins is making the right move taking his time on the descents. I am no expert, but seems the logical thing to be doing. Too much at risk, and he is very much still in it. Still glad I backed Evans though each way @ 20/1 🙂
atlaz - Member
I think it's now Nibali's to lose, his TT performance has increased enough to keep him in contention there, he's a good climber with a good set of team mates and is prepared to take risks to win a grand tour.
Yep I think bar an injury/massive mistake it's his, which is good he's been consistent at the Giro and deserves to take the title. I look forward to his Mountain TT!a
Wonders if dropper posts are UCI legal?
You mean like [url= http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/article/tour-de-france-tech-adjustable-seatposts-and-funky-graphics-30831/1 ]this?[/url]
good point there, acracer.
OK he's not got froome-dog leading him but the 2x colombianos will do the same.
Nibals will of course have the upper hand on those really steep finishes but if Wiggur has been training as effectively as we're told, the tactic may be to get the team to set a relentless pace from the base of some of those big big passes like stelvio or even Galibier.
Once a gap is formed, due to sheer consistency of pace, he's created a time-trial stage from a mountain stage....
I'd LOVE to see it.