Who voted for these idiots? c'mon own up.

nickf – Member
Adam, I think what Derek’s saying is that there are those for whom being gay is just a part of what they are. There are others who assert their sexuality rather more stridently.

Two guys I know would rather run a mile than go to the Sydney Mardi Gras, but they’re no less gay than the draggiest of queens. They’re just very straight-acting blokes. Well, reasonably straight-acting, anyway. There’s a certain fondness for Erasure in their household.

Not that it matters – this debate is about whether gay people should be able to marry, and not about whether being gay automatically makes you a massive attention whore.

Thanks for your support there and yes pretty much what I’m trying to say and in answer to Adam and without wanting to patronise him or Emz or deride them in any way, but Gay sexuality is very complex, it’s very difficult to come to terms with initially and even more difficult for the individual to cope with life in the early stages, I know this first hand from folk I’ve known over the years, there are many ‘flavours’ of it, lots of differing characters some might like the Marriage thing some definitely wouldn’t want the commitment, some just don’t get why, other than the legality of it all the need exists unless what, they want to adopt for instance? I’ve known couples who have lived until death quite happily with no problems and others who can’t hold down a relationship for more than a few months without straying, what future for them divorce? That’s just the men, I’ve no experience of the female gay world (other than a suspicion one of mine is probably slowly coming to terms with the fact she might be)but I bet they have equal problems resolving a relationship regardless of the stress of having to commit to an establishment ‘marriage’

So is it a question of terminology?

So anyway it’s not that the act of publicly solemnising a union is wrong imv it’s the current terminology that is needlessly inflammatory and could so easily be sorted if anyone with half a brain looked at what is needed.
Would it be fairer for all if the civil union be called just that and it matters not what the union is between, same sex or opposite sexes, why at the moment is there a necessity for the term marriage with all its traditional connotations of Religious ceremony, brides, bridesmaids, brides mothers, flouncy hats, groups of often fighting relatives, drunken dad dancing et al. All that enough in itself to start a new culture surrounding the making permanent of a union I would have thought.

derekrides – Member

but Gay sexuality is very complex, it’s very difficult to come to terms with initially and even more difficult for the individual to cope with life in the early stages,

FTFY.

But fixing aside- if you understand the difficulties gay couples can face in terms of acceptance and “normality”, why make it harder for them by treating it differently?

Is there a connotation of churches, religion etc? Not in my head.

Gay sexuality is very complex, it’s very difficult to come to terms with initially and even more difficult for the individual to cope with life in the early stages, I know this first hand from folk I’ve known over the years, there are many ‘flavours’ of it, lots of differing characters some might like the Marriage thing some definitely wouldn’t want the commitment, some just don’t get why, other than the legality of it all the need exists unless what, they want to adopt for instance? I’ve known couples who have lived until death quite happily with no problems and others who can’t hold down a relationship for more than a few months without straying, what future for them divorce? That’s just the men, I’ve no experience of the female gay world (other than a suspicion one of mine is probably slowly coming to terms with the fact she might be)but I bet they have equal problems resolving a relationship regardless of the stress of having to commit to an establishment ‘marriage’

You could say the same about straight people though. I don’t see how my gay friend playing the field, shagging anything that moves and having what is for her, fun, is any different from one of my oldest friends at almost the same age doing the same (he’s straight). Ironically SHE wants to settle down soon, he says not. Still not seeing how discriminating between sexualities does anything other than mess people up. The sooner we treat sexuality like race the better. You are what you are and what you are is THE SAME.

Forget it, my question is making me feel stupid for asking!

wow, derek, you really can’t help yourself, huh?

I just want to get married one day. I don’t want a civil partnership or anything different to anyone else, just married, that’s all. My choice, not someone telling me what I can or cant have, (and free, like everyone else to make shit decisions) just like every one else, OK? Please please please stop trying to make us out to be special or different with special wants or needs, OK?

‘scene’ gays

workaday types

is there only two ‘types’ of gays? every days a school day.

where do bears fit in? thing is; one bear looks like your typical lorry driver. that’s got to be

workaday

2 bears look very gay thats got to be

‘scene’ gays

.

confusing 🙄

emsz – Member
wow, derek, you really can’t help yourself, huh?

I just want to get married one day. I don’t want a civil partnership or anything different to anyone else, just married, that’s all. My choice, not someone telling me what I can or cant have, (and free, like everyone else to make shit decisions) just like every one else, OK? Please please please stop trying to make us out to be special or different with special wants or needs, OK?

OK I’ll bite again, I know I’m going to regret this…

But why? Why do you want to get ‘married’ for convention/ For legal reasons, explain that bit to me first.*

And you are different sorry to have to break that news to you but like it or not it’s true.

*Not a troll now I’m suckered into this I need to know the actual reason, most of us that got married did out of convention or to legitimise kids whatever..

So why do you feel you need to get “married’ instead of some other term?

Explain it slowly as you would to a child…

derekrides – Member

Explain it slowly as you would to a child…

For exactly the same reasons anyone wants to get married.

because she loves somone and wants to spend the rest of her life with her just like millions of non gay people
she want to have public show for others just like all straight folk do in derek world
Who cares she want to WTF has it got to do with us whether she can or she cannot? do straight folk have to tell you why they want to get married?

Yes some folk want to get married some dont, some have daft reasonn some have good ones , some I approve of [ love] some dont [arranged. Emsz does I dont see why her sexuality should preclude that or why anyone has the right to stop this

So why do you feel you need to get “married’ instead of some other term?

i would guess at

I just want to get married one day. I don’t want a civil partnership or anything different to anyone else, just married, that’s all. My choice, not someone telling me what I can or cant have, (and free, like everyone else to make shit decisions) just like every one else, OK? Please please please stop trying to make us out to be special or different with special wants or needs, OK?

I don’t understand why anyone wants to get married – but I can see no reason at all for stopping gay folk from doing so if the want to.

derekrides – Member

Would it be fairer for all if the civil union be called just that and it matters not what the union is between, same sex or opposite sexes, why at the moment is there a necessity for the term marriage with all its traditional connotations of Religious ceremony, brides, bridesmaids, brides mothers, flouncy hats, groups of often fighting relatives, drunken dad dancing et al. All that enough in itself to start a new culture surrounding the making permanent of a union I would have thought.

I do feel you’re trying (perhaps unsuccessfully) not to appear unfair. You can accept that we could have something called a “civil union” for everyone. How about if we called that “marriage” instead, and all the trappings/frippery were left to the individual?

And you are different sorry to have to break that news to you but like it or not it’s true.

But thats why it needs to be accepted that gay people can and should be allowed to get married, as opposed to the wording of a civil ceremony.To allow everyone to see they have made a commitment to each other etc.

So why do you feel you need to get “married’ instead of some other term?

I’m lost, two people want to get married, and there’s a problem why?

And you are different sorry to have to break that news to you but like it or not it’s true.

But millions are like her and we are all individuals.
we can all be viewed as like people and not like people[different]
I bet there are less vegans than gay people yet I can still freely marry despite being different
the problem apparently DS is that both of them are the same gender or that derek does not understand why they want to

Thanks for your support there and yes pretty much what I’m trying to say and in answer to Adam and without wanting to patronise him or Emz or deride them in any way, but Gay sexuality is very complex

I’m sure both Emz and Adam will be thrilled to have the complexities of their orientation explained to them…

it’s very difficult to come to terms with initially and even more difficult for the individual to cope with life in the early stages, I know this first hand from folk I’ve known over the years, there are many ‘flavours’ of it, lots of differing characters some might like the Marriage thing some definitely wouldn’t want the commitment, some just don’t get why, other than the legality of it all the need exists unless what, they want to adopt for instance? I’ve known couples who have lived until death quite happily with no problems and others who can’t hold down a relationship for more than a few months without straying, what future for them divorce? That’s just the men, I’ve no experience of the female gay world (other than a suspicion one of mine is probably slowly coming to terms with the fact she might be)but I bet they have equal problems resolving a relationship regardless of the stress of having to commit to an establishment ‘marriage’

Wow, it’s almost like Teh Gays have different personalities and approaches to life, like normal folk! I’ll have to tell my mate, who’s had a string of relationships that have ended due to him cheating on his girlfriends, that he might be gay. Or my cousin, whose been with her boyfriend for 15 years without marriage. I didn’t realise it was gay behaviour…

I’m not religious, Mr Toast isn’t religious, we don’t plan to have any children. Why did we get married? Because we love each other and want to show that commitment through marriage. Why should that be denied to any two consenting adults that want the same? Why call it something different, when it’s not?

Derek, I want to have sex with girls. No, correction; I want to have sex with ‘a’ girl.

That’s it.

That’s the difference. some people don’t like coffee, or ice cream or skirts or the colour blue, or Manchester football club or whatever. they’re different as well aren’t they? society doesn’t treat them any differently. churchs don’t get mad with vegetarians or vegans. Politians don’t get cross if you refuse to have a phone or watch telly.

So why? solely based on the fact that I prefer rosy cheeks, hard nipples, soft thighs, tits and fannies (y’know?) does society single me out for not worthy of marriage.

I want to look into Sara’s eyes and say “I do” in the same way that my brother can (providing some girl is idiotic enough to take him 😀 ) I want my white wedding I want a drunk evening of shit disco and I want my family and friends to be slightly a bit pissed and to have eaten slightly too much, to be soppy and say “don’t they make a lovely couple” and I want a slow dance with her at the end of the night.

OK?

Emsz –

do you both get to wear meringue dresses?

want to look into Sara’s eyes and say “I do” in the same way that my brother can (providing some girl is idiotic enough to take him ) I want my white wedding I want a drunk evening of shit disco and I want my family and friends to be slightly a bit pissed and to have eaten slightly too much, to be soppy and say “don’t they make a lovely couple” and I want a slow dance with her at the end of the night.

OK?

Seems as if you need to get married then,

I’m reporting your lewd post, Emsz 😉

clubber – Member
I’m reporting your lewd post, Emsz

Reporting it? I’m saving it for future reference!

Where’s that clapping smiley when you need it?

emsz – that was a really lovely speech!!

Rachel

So are you saying you don’t get to do that already with this civil partnership thing whatever it is that goes on now and that Church excluded the ceremony is that different?

In what way is a conventional ‘registry office approved marriage, different to whatever procedure is in effect for gays right now I guess is what I’m getting at.

The last ‘marriage’ i went to was a niece, they said all kids of different stuff to what I’d have conventionally thought, they made it up as far as I could tell. The register signing goes off at one side whatever gets muttered there isn’t of any consequence. The whole thing took place in a designed for the job converted barn in some farm place…

So what’s stopping you and your girlfriend doing exactly the same as my niece?

Is what I don’t get.

leaving the old guard Christian style church thing aside for a moment.

TandemJeremy – Member
do you both get to wear meringue dresses?

When I was getting fitted for my wedding dress, there were two other women in there getting fitted for their dresses together. My mom asked one of the staff, “Oh, are they having a joint wedding?”, at which point the shop assistant’s head started swivelling and nodding in a slightly alarming fashion and she said, “They’re… you know.”

My mom didn’t know, I had to explain it to her afterwards. She was quite put out, but for the stupidest of reasons. Same legal rights? Eve and Eve living together? That’s fine! But BOTH wearing wedding dresses? They’re obviously not taking it seriously! She genuinely expected one of them to wear a suit, and seemed quite shocked that they were both quite girly, because everyone knows that you have to have a man-lesbian in lesbian relationship. Although my mother did also once say, in all seriousness, that gay men wore leather caps ‘as part of their uniform’.

I’d leave the debate now emsz your last post shows exactly why you are no different to any other couple and why you should have the right to celebrate your love in exactly the same way .

Look, currently gay people can have a ‘civil ceremony’ they cannot have a civil (non-religious) marriage. These are tweo different things and is technically against anti discrimination legislation.

In practise it can mean the laws pertaining to inheritance, right to name your spouse as next-of-kin etc ( i think)

okay Derek – maybe this will help explain how simply daft the law currently is…

Should I happen to fall in love with a woman tomorrow, I would be able to marry her. Whilst my passport says ‘F’, my birth certificate disagrees.

However, I’m currently in the process of changing that birth certificate. If I was married, though, I would be required by law to nullify that marriage and then ‘get hitched’ again but using a civil partnership.

We would both be exactly the same people, with exactly the same feeling for each other. Why is it the law requires us to have different paperwork? It’s just silly.

Rachel

Oh dear Rachel. I suspect that derek’s brain will now explode.

Keep it up guys and gals this thread is comedy gold!

Wonder which part of “we should all be treated the same” is so hard for some to understand.

I think you’re probably right!! lol

I wonder how Derek would get his little head around a friend of mine Rachel?
Born into a male body, struggled with her identity and had several girlfriends during this time.
Eventually transitioned, tried relationships with men but found something was not right.
Eventually realised she is a gay woman and is now happily living with her partner and would love to be married….

well **** me.

So are you saying you don’t get to do that already with this civil partnership thing

I don’t want a civil parternship. I want to be married. (like every one else)

LOLing at Mrs Toast. Had a conversation once with a bloke

Him: “So, which one of you two pretends to be the man?”

Me “err, it doesn’t quite work like that…” 😆

So what’s stopping you and your girlfriend doing exactly the same as my niece?

Its the fact your niece got married and emsz cannot[ well she can but only to a man] she can only have civil partnership with the person she loves

its the law stopping her which is what this entire thread has been about

rachel that is bonkers I never knew that [marriage bit] how weird

wors – Member

well **** me.

Is that an invite?

Is that an invite?

Lol

TJ, do you not know the difference between ‘invitation and ‘invite’?

– clue – one is a verb, the other isn’t.

🙂