What's wrong with my cockpit?

I've got an 06 Orange 5 frame built up with 140mm Floats. I've a set of 640mm low rise bars and a 70mm 6 deg rise stem. There is a 20mm spacer stack under the stem.

When I had a 90mm stem I kept feeling like I was off over the bars. The steering was all over the place when I was climbing too. Putting a 70mm on has cured it to an extent though I now find that the bike doesn't want to turn until the last minute and then it turns sharply.

Should I try a 50mm? Wider bars? Higher rise something? Longer stem, wider, higher rise bars? …?

What's up?

For reference, here's a pic of the bike setup currently with the 70mm stem.

personally? wider bars, shorter stem, loose the spacers.

personally i think your technique is wrong not the bike

It seems funny that you feel over the front with the 90 but the steering wanders. I ran both a 90mm and a 60mm on a 2005 Five with Pikes and big wide bars (up to 711mm on occasion, but I have good reasons for that honest). The 90mm was better. That said I only had 10mm of spacer stack.

Is the frame the right size? If 90mm corners OK but you feel you're too far forward and 70mm leave the handling a little twitchy, it could be you need a smaller frame size.

Or you could try an 80mm (On One had them at a tenner recently)

And looking at the photo there might be room to roll the bars back a little and put the 90 back on – but that's a real personal taste one.

Of course there is merit to Jedi's comment.

And drop the saddle an inch – it's not a carbon fibre Euro hard tail racer.

I had considered technique but ruled it out since it's not been an issue for the last god knows how many years (apart from the odd crash when it just packs up and leaves).

Sorry, the bars are 660mm, not 640.

Have an 80mm stem so could try that.

Frame should be bang on, it's an 18" and I'm 5'10".

You're not keeping up Imnotamused, are you?

Last month your bike would have been fine, and indeed a shorter stem would have been allowed.

But the law's changed.

Your head angle is too steep, your bars are too high and narrow, and as far as your BB height is concerned, well it's beyond help. And you will die if your front rotor is less than 203mm.

layback post/move the seat back?

How much time have you given it?

I put a 70mm stem on my frame and not twitchy as I thought it should be but tunrned great and sharp.

I think it had 120mm before!

I have a 90mm on the ready as I'm flexible now lol but don't want to lose the sharpness but hopefully lose the wheelie moments and move weight forward too.

Give yourself time?

Don't you need to see the bars over the hub if you look over your stem when riding?

Get someone else to watch your position on the bike.

I find with a shorter stem, it helps to lean forward (bend your elbows) "into" the corner, effectively moving your centre of gravity forwards on the bike and slowing the "twichiness" of the steering. Have to agree with Jedi and say I believe a lot of it is technique… that's really a fancy word for 'just getting used to it'. Try slightly different weight distributions taking corners and see what works best for your riding style and the bike's geometry.
Personally, I don't believe handlebar width enters into it, as it makes minimal difference to riding position – purely personal preference in my world.
Hope this helps!

===========================
Live fast, take chances!
iRide Africa

Go back to a 90mm stem but with a 15 deg rise, get rid of the spacer and sort out the excessive upward sweep (roll the bar back a tad).

All the best.

Technique.

Much as Jedi above has said, technique is probably the issue but personally I would run wider bars and possibly short stem, (depending on how well you want it to climb).

It's fair enough to say technique but what actually does that mean exactly? How does that help matey?

It means that instead of worrying about the bike that it may be time to start looking at weight distribution and and where they are looking on approach to and through corners.

Been 3 weeks with this setup now. Took the stem and bar off my Inbred which felt perfect with 130mm Rev U-turns on.

Didn't know that about the hub, will have a look at that. Also, yes, moving the seat backwards is a good idea.

Re technique, I hear what is being said but I have ridden many many bikes in the UK and the Alps and it's just this particular one (setup) that I can't get used to. As I said above, I've used the bar and stem on my Inbred no prob at all. The upward sweep you see in the pic is a camera angle issue, they are spun back so there's not much upward sweep at the mo.

Here's a different angle taken on the same day showing sweep more accurately

Got any pics of you riding it?

No, only a video of a jump which is shaky and low quality

Also, think I'll try the suggestion of wider bars, shorter stem and loosing some or all of the spacers, combined with moving the seat back a bit.

Cheers all. Any more bright ideas let me know.

Still think that stem needs to increase in length (less wandery on climbs as you will be more stretched out) and needs to be a higher rise (will help negate the feeling that you're gonna go over the bars).

I appreciate the geometry is steeper on the E5 and I'm running a 130mm fork but a layout like that maybe? I find that spot on, I'm 5'10" and they're both 5" trail bikes all the same, not a million miles apart.

All the best.

did you just want to show off your fancy car ? lol. 8)

You sure you've got the suspension set up correctly? My Heckler was a pig until i sorted that, it was very sensitive to rear sag.

Are you in Wales or Scotland?

If yes to either of these there's your problem…

And maybe have a look at the forks too? My full susser was all over the shop at the front as there wasn't enough pressure in the forks and they were diving under braking / on the steep stuff (so at the worst possible time) and effectively steepening the head angle by god knows how much. With the correct pressure, it's improved immensely. Best of luck with it.

Elaine anne – with petrol at 105 a litre now I wish I had a more economical motor!

Yep, suspension setup is definately an issue at the mo, I've been playing with it again today, front and rear. I'm developing a princess and the pea reputaion for suspension setup with my mates 😆

That's Lancashire in the pics sharki but I'm a Yorkshireman.

And drop the saddle an inch – it's not a carbon fibre Euro hard tail racer.

Surely that comment isn't serious?

Personally, I don't believe handlebar width enters into it, as it makes minimal difference to riding position – purely personal preference in my world.
Hope this helps!

I note you said personal preference, but I find a wider bar makes a world of difference.

I have a 60mm stem on my bike, big wide risers, grips the same height as the saddle and my position as far back as it will go, whilst still being able to maintain a climbing position suitable for everything I ride. It's the best riding position I've ever had on a bike.

is that gisburn forest by any chance

yes

Well spotted

id say rear suspension setup needs looking at .

if the steering is all over the shop climbing then it could be the rear shock sagging to much.

if you are over the bars then it could be the forks diving to much and the rear rebounding to quick…..

i would try a bit of layback on the post as your cockpit looks quite cramped to me?? could just be the angle of the piccys though

@deluded, is that a medium?

1. Preferred length stem for control.

2. Weight evenly distributed (spacers, bars, stem rise).

3. Bars over the front hub (move the seat forward / back).

Simplez

If you can't do the above the frames the wrong size or ur an orang-outang or something. In which case custom frame.

tumnurkoz,

Yes mate, it's a medium.

All the best.

Just checked – when sitting on the bike, bars are in front of the hub. Am going to move the seat back a bit and try a 50mm stem and see what happens.

Anyone got one for sale?

could your weight be too far back, in effect unweighting the front wheel/causing the wandery feel? falling over the front may be the seat/bar relationship. do you know anyone who could lend a stem to try before buying? sorry if this repeats what has gome before!

i have a small e5 (that's why i asked deluded!) with a 90mm stem but it has a easton post with a lot of layback. i feel quite far back, but can shift around as required in the corners.

Update: Put a 60mm stem on this aft which I got from LBS for a tenner, borrowed some slightly wider 680mm bars and moved the seat back 20-30mm.

I also took spacers out to reduce the stack size to 5mm and put more air in the forks.

This combo seems to have cracked it – time will tell but it certainly felt way better this afternoon. Ok on the ups and steered when I wanted it to on the downs.

Cheers all.

Need to get a lighter stem (this one from the LBS weighs more than my old bars and stem combined!) and some light 680mm bars now 😆

I've a Thomson Elite X4 Oversize 50mm I was gonna put in the classifieds for £37. Looks like this. No scratches last time I looked.