What would it take for their to be a revolution in the UK?

I work voluntarily in a couple of charity shops…

Hopefully not ones with royal patronages JHJ?

Like their good friend Jimmy Savile, the Royals love getting their mugs in chariddy pics, so there is probably a few funny handshakes here and there, but the BIG society is all about the grass roots…

perhaps theocb is on lunchbreak or something?

Screw lunch I’m in the middle of my gin break, only another 14hrs to go till I’m off again.

Read up on BF Skinner and Operant Conditioning

He outlines a new way of controlling and ordering people. It is no longer possible, he says, to tell people what to do. In an age of individualism and mass democracy people won’t accept that any longer. Instead you reward them for behaving in the ways you want them to.

You make them happy, and they feel that they are in control – because by doing something they get the reward.

Skinner had started doing this with pigeons – and the film shows how he trained them to peck at a particular button because if they did they got a pellet of food, whereas if they pecked another button they got nothing. For Skinner though, that was just the start – and the film shows how his ideas were also being applied to human beings.

Here is that section – along with Skinner explaining his ideas. The film records an experiment in a mental hospital in San Bernadino – California. The patients are given rewards in the form of plastic fake money if they do what the doctors consider the right social behaviour. They can then use that money at meal-times to buy their way onto a “nice” table – with tablecloth and flowers.

Those without the rewards have to eat – as one of the nurses puts it, “in less elegant conditions”.

What emerges in the hospital is a new, ordered hierarchy created by a system of reward – but one where the patients don’t feel controlled – instead they feel “empowered” because it was through their actions that they received the reward. Skinner makes clear in the film that he sees this as a model for how to run a future kind of society.

From here

Basically we are conditioned to respond to a system of rewards. We feel empowered if our actions are rewarded. So long as the rewards are doled out the overwhelming majority will never feel the need for “revolution” in any form

Easy access to credit is probably the main “reward” modern society bestows on individuals. If you play the game and have good credit “score” then you can go to a bank and borrow a huge sum of money to purchase a nice house. You can go to a car dealer and lease a shiny German car, you can get a monthly contract for lots of technology that “improves” your life that you might otherwise not be able to afford

This is a pretty massive over simplification of the incentives and rewards in modern society but it explains why we aren’t likely to see a revolution any time soon

When I was a batchelor I lived in a formerly rough but gentrified area of terraces in a mill town where there were still a few of the original residents who hadn’t been pushed out. One three-bedroom house held a family of 12, the obese Dad was in his forties and according to local folklore had never worked in his life, claiming his back was too bad. Curiously this couple managed to bring up 10 kids without ever doing a day’s work and still managed a 2 week holiday in the Med every summer, leaving the kids at home in the care of the eldest duaghter and the neighbours. I once had a “discussion” with one of the kids when she asked me why I was getting dressed up and going to work every morning. “Because I have to work, to earn money” sez I. “No you don’t!” she replied.

That’s why we won’t ever see a revolution.

Revolution?

Better hurry up, theres a new series of X-factor on soon :http://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/celebrity-news/x-factor-2015-auditions-new-london-dates-added-10398756.html

Don’t want to miss it!

If the UK is as bad as this post says it is, why don’t people emigrate?

Lol I did and it had nothing to do with the UK. As for revolution the closest thing to push me over the edge is the kid in the airport lounge playing a **** iPad at full volume while the parents don’t give a shit.

globalti – Member
When I was a batchelor I lived in

LOL… Did you know that David Cameron once met a “40 year old black man”

It’s hardly the foundation of a solid view of the world, is it?

Maybe not in your book but 30 years of business travel around Africa and the Middle East has given me a pretty clear perspective on why Britain is definitely one of the best places to live in the world and how its inhabitants take their very comfortable, secure lives so much for granted.

I’m not sure what you’re hoping I’m going to say JHJ. I try to live by my principles as I expect you too but you and I aren’t playing top trumps.. you constantly talk openly about your problem with the way the world is run and you choose to do very little about that. You have the time to do something that you believe in but choose to post on singletrack instead. That’s fine, I have read your views before, I just haven’t read what you are going to do about them {not an invite on this thread}. You offered info and I was a little disappointed that you weren’t backing up your big talk, sorry if my expectations were too high.

Wanmankylung has made quite a few posts about the terrible state of great Britain and I’m a little concerned he is missing the important point; The ‘Big Society’ is the change he is looking for… unfortunately that means ‘doing’ something about the issues that concern him, perhaps I missed those threads.

Globalti, I’ve done plenty of travelling as well – every time I rebuke your posts you make no effort to reply and continue posting personal anecdotes.

That’s why we won’t ever see a revolution.

Why? Because of anecdotes?

To be serious, that’s another lie that the conservatives managed to push through – that a caring government = scroungers.

how its inhabitants take their very comfortable, secure lives so much for granted.

You’re making connections where none exist. There are very few stating that they think that the UK is a comparatively poor place to live. I’m still here (despite my income coming from abroad) exactly because I believe that the UK is a wonderful place to live.

That makes me even more motivated to make sure that the government is representing the views of the majority and that it doesn’t get away with lies being repeated as truth.

In no way am I a conspiracy nut….

But… Anarchy is actually much closer than you think.

Civilisation only survives if it’s feed.

Three square meals/diners missed and it all goes pear shaped.

Don’t believe me ? Just ask Binners how anxious he get with one missed Greggs ..?

Britain is definitely one of the best places to live in the world and how its inhabitants take their very comfortable, secure lives so much for granted.

I don’t disagree with that actually globalti (Funnily enough I’ve also done a lot of travelling). What I do worry though is that given inattention and complacency, our standards will be eroded to the point where unless you’re well off, you’re buggered and basic things like healthcare won’t be the norm. See how things are in the US for a precursor to it. We should see how things are here as a positive even if there are a few on the margins who take the piss.

Basing views on “that family down the street who are work-shy scroungers” and therefore assuming that this is the norm across the country is part of that. As has been pointed out, people’s assumptions on benefit state and what actually costs are wildly skewed and even if way more people were actually living up to that stereotype, it’d still be only a small part of the wider issue – eg aging population, those in work still needing benefits, etc.

it’s a bit of a cliche but it still sums it up for me.

Tom_W1987 says I just trot out anecdotes. Okay:

The UK economy is as poorly aligned as it was before the 2008 crash, pissing about with public spending will do nothing to counter the eventual earthquake and realignment that is going to take place.

Yes, the UK economy isn’t in great shape but it’s in a hell of a lot better shape than most other countries in the world. France, for example, is still shivering on the edge of serious action and hasn’t even dipped its toe in the water. Paris is in a filthy neglected condition as a consequence of cuts.

No, there are many aspects of UK life that still don’t work, the legal system for example needs radical modernisation as well as the Police and the Civil Service and the Forces but on the whole Britain works better than most others. Sadly, a lot of it has to do with how good you are at making it work; older people and the less articulate can suffer bad service from the NHS and it’s often those who are able to get their own way who get the best out of it. And the best is really excellent. Same with the Law.

No, there won’t be an eventual earthquake and realignment; the economy is too complex and there are too many checks and balances built in for a Greece-type crisis to occur in Britain. And you can go on squeezing an economy for a very long time before things begin to break because people just manage and make do. In most of Africa there is no effective government or economy yet life just somehow goes on.

I try to live by my principles

Well, you seem to know plenty about me, by contrast I’m afraid (perhaps my own fault) I don’t know much about these principles of yours that you allude to…

I’m also slightly confused just what this is actually supposed to mean?

You offered info and I was a little disappointed that you weren’t backing up your big talk

The Big Society idea is a bit more complex than just helping out doing charitable work in place of state funded services. If anyone’s seriously interested in the idea they should read Robert Putnam’s ‘Bowling Alone’.

Yes, the UK economy isn’t in great shape but it’s in a hell of a lot better shape than most other countries in the world. France, for example, is still shivering on the edge of serious action and hasn’t even dipped its toe in the water. Paris is in a filthy neglected condition as a consequence of cuts.

Better than everyone else isn’t good enough if the competition is incompetent. Resting on your laurels is a sign of privileged apathy.

No, there won’t be an eventual earthquake and realignment; the economy is too complex and there are too many checks and balances built in for a Greece-type crisis to occur in Britain.

I really disagree with this, personal debt is still ballooning, house prices and the cost of living are still increasing – with this comes a necessary increase in wages which will hamper competitiveness and the balance of trade – at the same time we have an ageing population and an electorate unable to cope with the steps needed to be undertaken to counteract this. Instead we are delaying these issues by spending using credit, whilst cutting public spending which seems entirely pointless in the context of the wider issues at hand. We do not have the right checks and balances built in, we have government that is only interested in short term economic success and the immediate wealth of their voters (in this case, the home owning old).

Using the sick/disabled and impoverished as speed bumps might provoke a sizeable Facebook profile pic campaign?

The ‘quiet revolution’ is underway. My mother’s boss offed himself recently after his disability benefits were axed. Only the local press and immediate family really noticed.

globalti – Member
our economy is not in safe hands
It’s in the safest possible hands – do you think we want Gordy back to squander the little that’s left? It was he who brilliantly sold 50% of Britain’s gold reserves when the world price of gold was at an all-time low.

Now. Why do you think he did that?

Now. Why do you think he did that?

Because he was rubbish at his job?

Man in “can’t predict the future” shocker. More at 4pm

The point is: For the purposes of the question, whether or not the UK is an unequal society with pockets of deprivation & poverty is irrelevant. What matters is whether the problems are sufficiently deep or extensive to ferment revolution. The answer is they aren’t. This is why comparisons with other countries are valid. If revolts are yet to break out in places which are much worse than the UK then why should it happen here?

^ that was exactly what I was about to say.

If revolts are yet to break out in places which are much worse than the UK then why should it happen here?

One could argue that we do have differentiators:
1) We have a long history of democracy and of having to defend it
2) We are sufficiently educated to see through at least some of the misinformation
3) Some are very defensive of what we see as ‘British institutions’. The NHS being a great example. The BBC being a another lesser example. They are being pushed quite hard at the moment.

If you look at somewhere completely ****ed like Greece – a basket case economy thats contracted 25% in 3 years, forecast to contract by another 3% this year, massive unemployment, particularly among the young, people living in genuine poverty, endemic corruption…

And this shits been going on for years, and its only going to get worse – and they’re not having a revolution. I don’t see much chance of it taking place here.

I agree with binners.

*sigh*

Do you know why we are a society that is largely fair and free from corruption?

Is it the weather ?

I would take care with the idea that UK economy is ok.
Household debt to GDP ratio is higher than Greece and forecast to get much worse

UK Household Debt to GDP worse than Greece[/url]

Forecast to get worse

Interest rates are not so much at low levels as emergency levels. If the underlying economy were in any way ok, why are interest rates still at the same level they were put at to stave off collapse in 2009? I suspect the amount of personal debt, esp mortgage debt has a lot to do with the fear of putting rates up.

Most concerningly, though is that we still seem addicted to consumerism and high house prices to feel good about ourselves. If a shock like 2008 hasn’t convinced us to live within our means, what will? It doesn’t bode well for UK public making the necessary behavioural shift to stave off another debt crisis…

tbh I think falling house prices are more likely to have people on the streets en masse than cuts in NHS, schools, benefits, another Middle East war or some kind of state surveillance scandal etc… it underpins a lot of people’s feeling of wealth and status these days…

we are a society that is largely fair and free from corruption

Not doing that well, really are we?

http://www.transparency.org/country/#GBR