That would be a very British kind of revolution – but really that was pushing on an already opening door…

I am playing devils advocate here… but really?

What, you looking for a safe option?

Yeah, top 2% is intolerable.

Comparing a developed economy with the third world for instance? Sounds tory. Dismantle the rights and protections that the majority have while telling us to be grateful for what we got left when compared to others.

That’s the current problem – the Westminster system is not representative, so the votes of most people don’t matter – it’s possible to win complete control with only 20-30% of the vote. Then add in the second-largest unelected chamber in the World, and political parties which don’t have any principles other than “say whatever it takes to get elected”.

First past the post has got to go.

El-bent

I’d agree with your last point. Trouble is with employment rates looking generally higher, wages actually climbing, more full time work, and a large cohort of pensioners who will vote, you may not get the answer you want.

And I think we should learn from history. Most social and other political advances happen slowly, incrementally. Even Obama and Blair managed to deliver some good stuff. So yes – I’d like a safer option than most revolutions.

Say for example the Royal Family were revealed as being involved in sadistic paedophilia, and it turned out Jimmy Savile was their procurer…

What kind of reaction would that evoke?

What kind of reaction would that evoke?

Dunno. How many armies does the Queen have ?

The response here to the suggestion of how ‘repressed’ we are is exactly the reason there will never be a revolution, half of you don’t even recognise repression even when it’s happening to you.

Here is a quick reminder.
Political repression, the oppression or persecution of an individual or group for political reasons. Psychological repression, the psychological act of excluding desires and impulses from one’s consciousness.

So, to those of us who could be described as anarchic, i.e. not wishing to be governed, or at the very least manipulated by the state or corporate greed, there has never been a worse time.

Then the simple question of freedom of thought and expression, or movement, all fine until you happen to act in a manner with which the state or new politically correct pitchfork brigade might disagree with.

Even in medieval times, a free man was exactly that, free to travel anywhere in the world, free to defend himself, provided he didn’t nick the Kinds deer, pretty much able to come and go as he pleased.

No surveillance from cctv, no electronic documentation from birth to death with his every electronic footprint traced and measured, free to think, say what he pleases, offend whoever he pleases along the way.

Free from the weapons of capitalism, and ‘the markets’, the manipuated media, the political system corrupted by capital.

Nope, you’re all pretty damned repressed.

Unless of course you’re Rich beyond imagination.

The great repressed of stw should perhaps go travelling somewhere less tolerant that the UK.

Then the simple question of freedom of thought and expression, or movement, all fine until you happen to act in a manner with which the state or new politically correct pitchfork brigade might disagree with.

Then what happens ? Do tell.

The great repressed of stw should perhaps go travelling somewhere less tolerant that the UK.

Like Saudi Arabia?

Like Saudi Arabia?

I suspect mikewsmith had somewhere like that in mind.

A free man of the middle ages were the rich of their day. Most people then were stuck within the feudal system. I doubt people then were able to say what they liked or offend whom they pleased, particulary tje church.

Everyone earning more than £100k should leave the country, that woukd solve income inequality and the rest woukd be really happy, or perhaps we just abolish all jobs over £100k. Chap on TV last night quoted how many council clerks made £150k it was quite a few 100.

Tories are about as popular now as they where when they won the election.

I think there’d be a revolution if we signed up to the Shengen agreement. Saw abkut 100 potential illegal immigrants hanging around the eurotunnel at Calais this evening. There could be one of we get more of this “we didnt get the government we voted for nonsense” – the Scots got exactly what they voted for in September

Got to go, past my bedtime plus Chamonix and Verbier and other Alpine loveliness beckon 8)

It’s the last thing frightened pensioners, land/property/BTL owners, business owners, the majority of the middle, upper and political classes want, can’t see them coming round to the idea anytime soon either.

Everyone earning more than £100k should leave the country,

I thought they are had and they were all now riding there Enduro bikes around the Alps?

Rising inequality, rule by old Etonians and their chums, mass immigration to keep down wages (a merchant banker said to me last week how it was expected that another million would be in London over the next 10 years, largely prepared to work for the minimum wage and very good for business), destruction of the welfare state, unaffordable housing, zero hours contracts, university fees. Any member of the ruling class reading this thread would be delighted and amused by how cowed and conservative people are, lickspittles busily tugging their forelocks and coming out in defense of queen and country and justifying their own relative poverty. Austerity is about reducing real incomes to a level approximating to that of the middle class in China but feel free to let the Mail etc persuade you otherwise while it is happening.

There really is some prize twaddle being posted on this thread by the embittered and envious amongst us.

globalti – nail head. The vocal left don’t take very well to not being in control. If there were to be a revolution I think it will be the quiet sort, probably moving more to the right, there are a lot of low and middle income earners less than happy with the perceived lack of inequality between them and those they pay to support.

Anyone remember the quiet right who voted in the election?

globalti – nail head. The vocal left don’t take very well to not being in control.

Except that tyrionl1 who is claiming that we are the most repressed we’ve ever been in our history is a ranting right-winger.

People who come out with all this stuff about governments controlling their lives are generally right-wingers.

And by “the quiet right” do you mean embarrassed Tories? So they should be.

Ernie, no I don’t mean embarrased Tories, I mean the large number of people who hold mainstream and legitimate views that don’t tally with your view of the world and who are sick of being verbally abused for holding such views in a democracy.

As for tyrionl1 I have no idea what their political tendancies are and wouldn’t like to attribute words or views to them that may or may not be his/hers.

To my mind the most dangerous and potentially unstable people in Britain are the Barbour-wearing, Telegraph and Express-reading middle classes personified by Nigel Farrage. These are the people with military and Police connections who could obtain weapons and would have the means to network even if the Government switched off all the phones. During the miners’ strike in the mid 70s the founder of the SAS, Colonel David Stirling formed a group named Great Britain 75, which was effectively planning to mount a coup if the Government lost control. My Dad was a village GP in Oxfordshire and I clearly remember him explaining that he had been approached by friends of friends who wanted to know where his loyalties would lie if such an event was to take place.

The property-owning middle-classes and hiding aristocracy are the ones with the most to lose in the event of a civil conflict and the ones with the means, money and connections to mount some kind of coup and repressive counter-revolution. Most of rural Britain fits this mould and I think that if the embittered left rose up in the cities and headed out into the counties they would meet with a rude shock.

To my mind the most dangerous and potentially unstable people in Britain are the myopic, the ungrateful, the conspiracy theorists and the rest who fail to realise what a relatively and absolutely attractive place the UK is to live in.

As others have note, go and travel. It will open your eyes.

Evolve, don’t revolve!

I think you are corect about the traditional rural well conected right wing. Many don’t have some amzingly high income, but hey are well connected and routed into socity, own a lot of land and property. Many do not have a wide field of knowledge but they know how to work the system and they know that they are in a very comfy position.

Like most things, its not a conciouse decition to “keep people down” but people like stability. Bussiness as an entity evolves very quickly to change, but he people behind current businesss may not be the winners.

If there was a revolution I suspect it would be more about migration and shifting demographics than purely standards of living.
As has been pointed out by more erudite people than me, the UK is actually not a bad place to live, it has rule of law, a large comfortable middle class, low levels of crime and corruption and is largely a society that is fair and equal to all.
The fact that a small minority seek to point it in another light is more to do with their own viewpoint than the actual reality, if it was half as bad as some make out why on earth would we have increases to the net population via migration year after year?

Anyone with a better search fu than me find cougars tweet about the vocal left and the rest of the population. In a country where large numbers can’t be arsed to even vote (there is no safe seat with a turnout under 60%). Facebook would suggest a revolution was imminent if lattes were banned and the good honest lefties media would be in it if it meant a rise in circulation or viewing figures.

ernie_lynch – Member
Then the simple question of freedom of thought and expression, or movement, all fine until you happen to act in a manner with which the state or new politically correct pitchfork brigade might disagree with.
Then what happens ? Do tell.

Hmm lets see, arrest for incitement to racial and or religious hatred/violence, for openers, gone are those ranting at speakers corner, quickly banged up by the corporate state. No chance of revolution coming from that direction, how long do you think Karl Marx would last these days?

Unless of course he was lucky enough to be wielding a muslamic ray gun a la Anjem Choudray.

More chance of a future with Sharia Law than a brit lead revolution, we love nothing more than to lock up our own disent.

Hmm lets see, arrest for incitement to racial and or religious hatred/violence, for openers, gone are those ranting at speakers corner, quickly banged up by the corporate state. No chance of revolution coming from that direction, how long do you think Karl Marx would last these days?

Sounds like a place I’d love to live, punishment for the narrow minded idiots.

If there were a collapse of electricity (of which we have little spare capacity) and then water supply, then I believe we’re about three mealtimes away from anarchy.

A major solar flare took out power supplies in the Northern US a few years ago.

As others have note, go and travel. It will open your eyes.

I have, travelling reminded me why we must complain as opposed to being grateful for what our overlords give us.

As has been pointed out by more erudite people than me, the UK is actually not a bad place to live, it has rule of law, a large comfortable middle class, low levels of crime and corruption and is largely a society that is fair and equal to all.

Do you know why we are a society that is largely fair and free from corruption?

Overlords? Get a grip, is there something you can’t do that you want to?

Overlords? Get a grip, is there something you can’t do that you want to?

I want to incite people to violence, but the corporate state or new politically correct pitchfork brigade won’t let me. Most unfair 🙁

Again Mike, my point is, is that whatabouttery never created the society we live in now…..political whining did.

I think you need to get a grip mike and stop frothing at the mouth, someone might mistake you for having rabies.

The only froth round my mouth was from a very nice stout I just finished.

As others have note, go and travel. It will open your eyes.

My British colleague lives with his wife and kids in Lagos, Nigeria, a relatively wealthy city in one of Africa’s wealthiest countries. Yet thanks to corruption, incompetence, theft and mismanagement he gets up every morning unsure what the day will bring him. The first thing he must do is start his generator because there hasn’t been a public electricity supply for three weeks. Diesel for the gen costs him $30 a day, when he can get diesel – there have been tanker driver and distributor strikes on an off for decades meaning you often have to pay three times the going rate for fuel, if you can find it. Once the gen is running (assuming it hasn’t broken down because the maintenance bloke has used a second-hand part and charged for new) he can pump some water from his borehole up into the roof tank for a shower. On the 10 km drive to work he is stopped three times by corrupt Police or State Highway staff demanding to see his vehicle documents in the hope of finding a means of taking some cash from him. Arriving at work he finds Federal tax inspectors who have arrived to “audit” the books, meaning look for ways of demanding a bribe to give him his tax certificate. He goes out to visit customers and finds the roads gridlocked again and after three hours no more than a few kms from the office he turns round and goes back. On the way home he witnesses a lynch mob chasing and murdering a supposed armed robber, more likely someone involved in a business deal that went wrong and an old score is being settled. Many days a week there are corpses in the road, either well-dressed people who have been hit by vehicles or people who have been dropped off bridges in revenge or juju killings. The children of those people will be sitting at home that evening hungry and waiting for their Mummy or Daddy who will never return and they will probably never find out why. As a consequence of losing the wage-earner the family will fall victim to unscrupulous traffickers and one or several of the children will end up working as virtual slaves in somebody’s house either in Lagos or London.

Meanwhile our “right on” British anarchist gets up, switches on the light, turns the tap, washes, takes fresh milk from the working fridge, has breakfast then strolls down the road unmolested to sign on and then nips to the Bargain Booze to spend some of the lolly on a few bevvies, while moaning to the shopkeeper about the Tory government. Later he gets a bit pissed on strong lager and falls over, bashing his head and bleeding a lot so a Police officer calls an ambulance which picks him up at no cost, drives him to a modern clean hospital where he is tidied up, his wound stitched and he is sent home without anybody asking him to pay a single penny! All this time he is gobbing off to anybody who can be bothered to listen about Cameron and his Etonian pals running the country like an old boys’ club, Police incompetence, NHS incompetence and the bloody east Europeans taking all our jobs.

I can’t wait for the revolution!

Shithole? Some people really need to get a grip.

So what Globalti, as I have mentioned earlier in this thread – the reason for example that the Philippines is a dump, is because family is placed before the rule of law and the state.

Had we not had a history of political unrest, with the working and middle classes demanding more from the aristocracy – then we would not be living in a country relatively free from corruption and massive wealth disparity.

We do care, we do whine and people have a right to do so. Yet you seem to resent this and continue to engage in a particularly histrionic form of whatabouttery.

Do you know why we are a society that is largely fair and free from corruption?

I suspect that it is largely because not only do we have laws in place but by and large, they are also seen to be used and are available to all.
Yes there are miscarriages of justice, yes some people are persecuted due to color or beliefs, sadly these do happen but as a rule things do get corrected over time.
As a rule the UK is a nice place to live and I speak as someone who voluntarily left a few years back.

The so-called “ruling classes” discredited themselves so thoroughly in the way they conducted the First World War that the demolition job was already done by the time the Left started agitating in the sixties and seventies.

Even the use of the word Anarchy, ingrained into everyone from birth as a ‘bad’ word when really it simply means the desire not to be governed by a ‘state’ corrupt or otherwise. To be profited from, to be used as an excuse to invade others and profit from them, to be used as lathe turners, canon fodder, call centre automatons to enrich the man.

The trick is knowing that there could be something so much better

Then fight for it.

That’s when you get a revolution.

The left was agitating at least some 140 years before the 60s. I think you’re displaying a profound ignorance of British history globalti.

Always seems to be too much focus on left and right~ surely the problem is more related to up and down?