What can a gravel bike do?

The whole gravel bike thing has passed me by as a mountain biker! A few of us from work are into cycling and have been organising some group rides. I’ve been asked if I could organise a few mountain bike rides for the spring. Several of the roadies have expressed an interest in trying it out – but a couple only have gravel bikes.

What sort of terrain/technicality can a gravel bike deal with sensibly with an average rider. We’re all based north Leeds area so thinking Dales for some cross country rides as an intro. Like Mastilles Lane- Malham Tarm or the Settle Loop of the PBW

As I know nothing about gravel bikes am I completely barking up the wrong tree? Thanks

The routes you suggest are about on the limit of what I would comfortably use the gravel bike for before switching to MTB. Recently rode up from Carlton to Weets Top then back to Hetton and the gravel was fine. Mastilles would be tricky down but fine up. Basically they will be okay for the rides you suggest although a few sections will not be fun (or ace fun, depending what the rider likes!).

The bike can deal with all sorts of things but not sure what an ‘average rider’ can deal with. The difference if riding with people on MTBs is that it will just be slower and as terrain gets more tricky it will get slower and slower so the MTB riders will just have to have patience but then the gravel bike rider will need patience on any very smooth/gravel parts.

If the average riders is fairly slow with not masses of skill then it may not be much of an issue.

Depends entirely on the rider…Chris Akrigg can make them do amazing things, I on the other hand struggle to keep them upright!

Rough roads, back lanes, fire-roads, towpaths, the odd field, farm tracks and the road home. IME. Even then I preferred a 29” monster-cross variant of the ‘gravel bike’, shod with 2.1 Nanos f+r.

To give some context I went and eventually swapped the above for a 29er MTB with flat bar and bar ends which has now become an ‘ATB’. This is perhaps more useful than the drop-bar version in those few times when I go off the semi-beaten path into the MTB world. But it’s not as much fun in the woods as a hardtail.

During lockdown was gadding about on an old steel touring bike on 28mm tyres. It was somehere inbetween a road bike and a gravel bike. Absolutely love it. But it gets out of it’s depth quickly if offroad speed is required and is of course much happier on tarmac and fireroads.

What I think is that there are all kinds of ‘gravel’ options/bikes. From heavyish relaxed, sittyuppy adventure-tourers to more lightweight (expensive) heads-down arse-up CX types. Some are like heavy hybrids with drop bars. ‘Gravel’ is a broader niche than it sounds. IMO it’s best to ask where you ride/wish to ride and then build a picture from there and pair it with how you like to ride/what you like in a bike?

The bikecan do a huge amount, although I draw the line at steep or lumpy descents as it just stops being any sort of fun.

The danger of taking pure roadies off-road is the lack of skills that you might otherwise take for granted e.g. maintaining traction on steep or loose stuff, or basic confidence on descents.

I took out a roadie pal of ours on a gravel route that was almost entirely forest tracks or at worst steep landrover track. He didn’t have such a great time…

Yeah the limitation isn’t going to be the bike, I’m guessing.

Sick to fire roads, smooth singletrack, nothing too rough or bumpy unless you want to scare them away.

Might be an idea to swap bikes for the techy sections, you can then show them what can be ridden on a gravel bike, and they can get a go on a proper mountain bike. You might even convert one or two!

A gravel bike can do pretty much what ever you throw at it… the person sat on it on the other hand may not be capable of staying on it!

Ive done blue and red trails on my Gravel bike, obviously im a lot slower than when on the emtb but i can get down them in one piece and its fun in a different kind of way

Id be wary of taking any roadies off road if they have not had any previous experience, best to chat to the gravel riders and try and gauge what sort skill they have on a bike and what sort of off road riding they have previously done

No point taking them if they will be out of their depth and then have an accident which then you have to deal with getting them help and it ends up ruining the ride

I have one. It can do more than you think, but probably shouldn’t and after one or two rough trails the novelty of that will wear off.

Sounds like you’d all do better on XC hardtails tbh. I can recommend flat carbon bars with Ergon GP3 bar ends. Paired with Conti Race Kings. Used that setup on my Longitude for gravelbeasting ™ bridleways and farm tracks, along with tarmac sections to and from home and the setup is swift, comfortable, secure-feeling and great for climbing. Spesh Phenom Gel and/or Brooks Team Pro Special saddles complete the contact-points for me, depending on length of ride (Brooks for all day)

Suppose I’m talking basically about what used to be known as ‘all-terrain’ biking? ATB? Still not quite sure what ‘gravel’ is at least as far as the UK is concerned. Probably a ‘rough-stuff road bike, with some major ATB and minor MTB capability? Will attempt to sketch a vennish diagram

The key differences compared to even a rigid MTB are that less rubber means less traction, the hand/body position makes absorbing large bumps much harder, and the geometry and body position means it’s much easier to go over the bars.

So, whilst skills can mitigate all of these, I would keep a gravel-riding group away from big rocks and unusually slippery climbs as far as possible. If it’s a fun trail on a suspended MTB then assume it’s at best marginal for a gravel bike. The occasional carry/push is fine if it gets to a good bit of route, but it wears thin quickly.

I think Weets is a good shout. you could put together a nice circuit from Hetton taking in tracks on Malham Moor, Bordley, etc. I would say the western end of Mastiles would be OK. As for the Settle Loop, probably OK with the exception of the steps bit at Stockdale.

Break them.
Break them quick. It’s the only way.
😉

Surely if you have to ‘dumb down’ the ride to make it work for those with gravel bikes, you’re actually organising a gravel bike ride no?

Lowest common denominator and all that?

The riders could be a problem – I know roadies who only use the rear brake, and only ever put their left foot down when they come to a stop, leading to some hilarious tip overs.
Add in the belief that tyres must be inflated to the pressure on the side wall and you will be in for a world of trouble on anything that would be a struggle in a regular 2wd car.

Of course they may have been off roading on drop bar bikes for years and be really competent… but I think they might have mentioned it to you already if they were.

If they’ve only ever ridden a road bike I’d be careful taking them down anything slippery or technical. Road technique & off road are a different kettle of fish entirely. If they’ve done a bit of off road or CX then it won’t be as much of a shock to the system for them

It really comes down to the rider, if they are roadies on gravel bikes they will probably want tame gravel trails and double-track. If they are MTBrs with gravel bikes, pretty much anything goes in my book! I’ll ride my gravel bike on the same sort of terrain as my rigid MTB, except for rides where a lot of the riding is singletrack or bombholes.

Here, at risk of having it shredded by mixed opinions. Notions of what is ‘gravel’ have always divided. As has been said, it’s usually more about the rider and to what point of ‘versatile’ we find to be the most fun/satisfying/effective.

Curiously, my ‘gravel’ bikes are 1 x 29er MTB and 1 x retro tourer with 32c. I could easily consolidate if I wasn’t so sentimental and particular.

Perhaps plan a route with chicken lines? Send the riders with the gear and/or skills down singletrack and those without down the nearest road and meet at the bottom.

– I know roadies who only use the rear brake,

Bollocks, in the wet they’d pretty much never stop!!

There’s some stereotypes in this thread isn’t there? “They’re roadies so can’t handle a bike” being the main one. I’d politely suggest that’s absolute rubbish, there’s plenty of incompetent MTBers as well.

I don’t know the trails the OP mention, but my experience is that gravel bikes are very capable indeed, albeit they need some care on rockier trails. Traditional XC trails are well within their capabilities.

But irrelevant, you’re organising a group MTB ride so for the first ride or 2 make them shorter and easier than you think and maybe have an extension in mind towards the end. Explain to people that’s what you’re doing and say that once you know what people are capable off you’ll adjust routes in the future.

The riders could be a problem – I know roadies who only use the rear brake, and only ever put their left foot down when they come to a stop, leading to some hilarious tip overs.

And I know plenty of MTBers who can’t ride on SPD’s as they need to dab so much, they need 140mm of travel just to get round a trail centre. Plus, they need a motor on their bikes to go up hills.

Stereotypes work both ways…

I have one. It can do more than you think, but probably shouldn’t and after one or two rough trails the novelty of that will wear off.

^^

This. I love my gravel bike, been out this morning and done a mix of road and some tame BWs. But if you take it to downhill tracks that are fun on a mountain bike* then the gravel bike stops being fun for me. Even MTB techy climbs can be a bit annoying with skinny tyres and no sus to help traction. I’m quite capable of getting my gravel bike down almost anything I can ride on my MTB, but my local steep stuff is a slow PITA on the gravel bike.

The best gravel rides IMO are a mix of road (gravel bikes feel almost as fast as road bikes) and lightweight XC (the lack of suspension/grip adds extra challenge).

The main issue with gravel bikes is that you either have that sort terrain locally, or you don’t. I get the impression that the USA has miles and miles of dirt tracks in vast open areas – something we don’t really have so much in the UK. Perhaps gravel bikes make more sense as an alternative to road riding over there?

* your personal gnar-barometer will vary.

The real issue with gravel bikes if you take them into technical MTB territory is that if they try to keep up with the MTBs, then there will be punctures.

IMO of course, but based on my experience.

I get the impression that the USA has miles and miles of dirt tracks in vast open areas –

They are not really even dirt tracks, they are just roads which are not tarmac and are more comfortable to ride on than broken tarmac roads in UK.
The UK has a fair bit of gravel but not much that will go on for 50 miles. Where I live there are loads of sections of 3 or 4 miles, bit of road to get to next section and so on which is fine for my 1-2 hour rides but I would struggle to put together a 100 mile ride of mostly gravel.

For me, pretty much what @Superficial said.

I live on the edge of the Peak District and I’ll take the CX bike on almost anything. Some of that will be faster on a MTB, some of it will be slower (the CX bike climbs much faster but descends much slower too!)

Some of it will just be unpleasant – once you get into babyhead rocks, drop offs and so on, it’s very uncomfy at best and walking/pushing/carrying at worst. That said, it’s still a very capable bike and with a bit of care it’ll be rideable on most stuff and in that respect it’s very handy for doing mixed routes involving narrow back lanes, broken tarmac, gravel, milder XC routes and using some of the BWs to just cut out awkward/dangerous bits of road.

In terms of sorting out a ride for beginners, it might be worth picking a trail centre with a good mix of green, blue and red routes. An experienced roadie friend of mine was prepping for a gravel bikepacking race and she got sorted with a bike from her sponsors. First ride I took her to Swinley for some nice rolling terrain while never being too exposed or remote or having any trail features that you had to commit to. She did come up to mine for a couple of rides in the Peaks and also the Yorkshire Dales once she was more used to it so your suggestion of Mastiles Lane and the Settle end of PBW is good. I’ve done Mastiles both up and down on the CX, it’s all perfectly doable.

The answer is more than a road bike, less than a MTB.

I reckon I’ve ridden 90+% of my normal MTB trails (Surrey Hills, N Downs, S Downs) on my gravel bike. I probably didn’t expect that to be the case in the beginning but after a few rides I pushed it more and more to see what it could do. The only stuff I won’t tackle is anything proper steep or rocky/flinty. The former will have me OTB in no time and the latter will just not be enjoyable (and no doubt shred tyres, rims and knees).

One of the coolest things about going gravel is you have to find different lines for riding some of the more challenging trails. It gets you thinking and working in a different way. Some of the trickier ones demand less speed with more balance and end up being a completely different experience.

I’m a better off-road rider as a result.

For reference our route on gravel bikes was start at Skipton, canal to Gargrave, bridal way to Bank Newton, road/BW/road to Carlton, BW up to Weets and back down to Hetton, road to Rylston then choice of road to Skipton or BW over Black Park and Bolton Abbey or Holton East then back to Skipton.

Plan for progression. A ride that gets more challenging as it progresses, with mellower alternatives if people aren’t enjoying it. There is no point in making it unenjoyable due to being too difficult. Equally you don’t want a yawn fest.

I know that in the past I have been guilty of biting off more than other people can chew when planning rides.

I think with gravel bikes tyres are much more of a factor than mountain bikes. If they’re running them at the all road end with 32mm basically slick tyres then your going to be much more limited than 45mm tyres with a sensible tread pattern. Similarly they might not be running tubeless which is going to make anything even slightly rocky a bit more hassle.

In general I’d say the cross over between routes that are fun on both a gravel and a mountain bike is quite small, more so if the mountain bikes aren’t hard tails. Smoothish not too steep single track is probably the ideal, but even then the people on the gravel bikes would need to be reasonably confident on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqauJpI_98I

This ‘gravel bikes can handle anything, it’s the rider that’s at fault’ is bollocks.

Yes, you can physically get down most trails on a gravel bike, but you have to go so much slower than you would be expecting to go on a decent MTB that it will probably be rubbish. It doesn’t make a difference if you’re Chris Akrigg or anyone else. You’ll going much slower than you otherwise would be on an MTB, and therefore the level of excitement will be significantly lower than the bar you’ve set on your MTB; and the level of discomfort significantly higher. If you’d never ridden an MTB then your bar would be set differently and you’d enjoy it. But you can’t un-know how much better technical trails are on an MTB.

Traditional XC trails

What on earth is a traditional XC trail?

@paton Thanks for those videos.

Just shows what can be done on a bike – if you’re good enough.

@molgrips I think you’ve defined the difference for me. My bikes aren’t for excitement, but for getting into interesting places, and that’s what a “gravel” bike is good for.

What on earth is a traditional XC trail?

Forest trails, fireroads, access roads, a few fields, some hike-a-bike/getoffandpush when/if pebbles, ruts etc make an appearance.

You’ll going much slower than you otherwise would be on an MTB, and therefore the level of excitement will be significantly lower than the bar you’ve set on your MTB; and the level of discomfort significantly higher. If you’d never ridden an MTB then your bar would be set differently and you’d enjoy it. But you can’t un-know how much better technical trails are on an MTB.

TBF the OP is trying to plan a group ride for people who are probably not very familiar with MTBing so the challenge and difficulty that comes from tackling “tamer” trails on a curly barred bike at lower speeds would probably be just fine for them, unsullied by any prior knowledge of gnarr on a MTB…
For those used to MTBs it’s not simply about ever increasing excitement, but also sometimes gently introducing some potential new recruits to the joys of off-road cycling. Flog them down boulder Strewn cliff faces on the first ride and yes you’ll prove what a gnarly, rufty-tufty MTBist you are, but you’ll also probably turn them off of the whole idea of riding off-road for life…

What on earth is a traditional XC trail?

You know “rough stuff” like your Great Grandad’s generation used to ride on single speed bikes slowed by rod brakes… It’s not really that new.

The gravely bikes will be capable and TBH many road riders with a reasonable level of core fitness/strength will probably be able to deal with and recover from the rougher bits it’s really down to how long the ‘weakest link’ in the group can take it for. It’s not simply that MTBs with their chunky tyres and suspension are more capable (they are of course), but they also tend to reduce the physical fatigue on the rider for a given amount of off-road shenanigans, so yep gravel bikes and riders can tackle some pretty tough stuff, just not for as long without getting knackered (IMO/IME)…

Just plan your initial routes accordingly with some bail out/tarmacked return options, take snacks for those that Bonk before they were expecting to and make it clear that the ride will be at a “social pace” and you will all regroup after every big ascent or descent… Keeping it fun and friendly is almost more important than the route.

This ‘gravel bikes can handle anything, it’s the rider that’s at fault’ is bollocks.

Yes, you can physically get down most trails on a gravel bike

🤔

Exactly. Of course it is down to the rider but we all accept that the same very skilled rider on a gravel bike will be slower than same rider on MTB but they will still be faster on gravel bike and be able to ride on terrain that the less skilled rider who won’t be able to ride.
Whether that is more fun or not is irrelevant as that is not the discussion here.

Distance is the key for me. What gravel bikes do best is cover mixed terrain fairly quickly. Plan a 30-40 mile loop and the gravel riders should have fun. They might have to walk some techy sections but they will enjoy the rest of the ride.

All depends on the bike as to how much fun the route will be IMO. I had a couple of Croix De Fers over the years and used them for winter road, old school touring and some fireroad trails. Perfect for what I was riding though on bumpier singletrack I found it a bit sore, harsh and sketchy, no doubt partly down to my limited ability ! Was always setup more towards the road end of the spectrum, with 35c fast rolling tyres.

Last year I bought a Vagabond for bikepacking, very much at the MTB end, effectively a rigid 29er with drop bars and 2.1 Nanos. It is a lot more fun on bumpy stuff that the CDF and just about as good on fireroads, though not much fun on road. I also now have a Fugio, which is a hoot on short tame trails and a bit of general exploring, and has 650 x 47 setup and a dropper. It has been perfect for local riding in lockdown.

For winter road I have a Giant Contend AR coming in a few weeks.