Wet room floor repair?

Previous owners have left me two poorly done wet rooms upstairs. Some tiles in the main bathroom have been loose for ages, a recurring leak underneath somewhere has finally prompted me to take a few up and see what it’s like underneath. Looks like they either ran out of tile glue or had no idea how to stick the things down:

Now I’m pretty sure I could fill the gaps with enough glue to stick them back down for another year or two, but I do still have a leak to identify/ fix (for reference some small wet spots on the ceiling below align roughly with the right hand edge of removed tiles). Tiles over the shower area seem better stuck down, I’m loathe to remove any that might damage the water resistant membrane. If that membrane is already damaged, or gets damaged, can I fix it without stripping the entire room and re tanking walls and floor?

Side note, I do have some tactical holes drilled in the ceiling below and a boroscope ready to see if it’s a plumbing issue rather than leaky floor.

We had a similar situation when we moved in here. The main bathroom had a ‘wet floor’ which was meant to be waterproof but wasn’t. It had some cement bonded to the wall and down onto the floor to give a curved lower edge that butted up to the floor tiles. This had slightly separated from the tiles and leaked.

1st plumber said he wouldn’t touch it.
2nd plumber said rip it all out and start again.
3rd plumber squeezed some gloop in the crack and then stopped answering calls when it continued to leak.

There’s an involved and convoluted process to make a stable and waterproof substructure onto which the tiles are fixed. If it’s not a leaking waste joint then it will need ripping out and done from scratch.

Yeah, our wet room upstairs basically had to be sealed with a membrane system right up the splash area of the walls aswell, then a waterproof adhesive and grout were used. Means if a tile cracks or grout develops a crack the membrane will stop it leaking through . Initial plumber was wanting to just use a waterproof kind of primer and then tile over that but talking to some other guys they said for the extra few hundred the membrane kit cost it’s worth it as it gives the water nowhere to go except the shower tray that the membrane is also laid into and sealed at the drain connection.

So, sorry,  I’d rip the tiles up and clean up the area (make sure it is the floor and not a pipe leaking first) and then fit a membrane and retile. It’s quite easy,  the membrane comes in a roll with adhesive backing and you get joining strips, internal and external corner strips etc depending on the layout.

There’s already a membrane there, so I’m really hoping it’s a leaking pipe, otherwise I gotta pull up and probably largely replace £££ worth of tiles, plus a new membrane it seems! I’d much rather replace a chunk of the ceiling downstairs after fixing a leaky pipe or two instead.

Looks like an impey shower tray system judging by the metal grate and trap.

The stick down membrane that the system uses over the reinforced shower tray should make it waterproof but if it doesn’t extend beyond the edge of the shower tray then I guess the bottom of the glass wall will be a weak point.

Would fitting the glass wall back in slightly inboard of the membrane edge on the down slope to the drain be better? Plus sitting it on a substantial layer of sealant.

My shower waterproofing.

That’s 100% an Impey Wet deck and tanking system.    I should look like retroricks and I’ve never seen one fitted properly leak, they’re the gold standard IMO.

the standard of that tiling is poor, so hopefully the same person didn’t fit the waterproof system.  Difficult to definitively determine where it’s leaking from remotely unfortunately.

Did you remove the shower screen? You can see where it was from the silicone line next to the door.

I’d be tempted to do away with the wet-room idea; pop a low profile shower tray in the shower area and put the full height glass screen back in.

I’ve nothing useful to offer, but merely curious to know if that’s key clamp under the worktop & basin. (Or a repurposed Orange frame)

Doesn’t look like there’s enough adhesive under the tiles – I’ve usually laid floor tiles on a full bed of adhesive. I’d want to make sure the tiles debonding wasn’t due to the floor flexing either.

https://eu.schluter.com/en-DE/waterproofing-224.html

Use this

Personally I would have cut a hole in the ceiling below and run the shower to identify if the leak was from the pipework or from getting through the cracks.  If you keep the square you cut out it is a simple job to refit, and bit of easifill and a couple of coats of paint and you’d have never known.

you are going to have a tough time to run the shower now you’ve pulled the tiles up and removed the screen.

Looks like a full refit job to me know you’ve started pulling stuff up.

It looks like the floor tiles don’t go under the first row of wall tiles, so you may get lucky and not have to disturb the wall tiles when you replace.

Is that a towel rail made of scaffolding?! Have we reached peak hipster?

Looking again at the photo does the drain for the shower tray go left to meet up with the sink etc, a leak in the drainage pipe could cause it and travel along the pipe due to it being sloped towards the drainage system.

Also check the screw in the middle of the drain as that’s is what reloads the drainage sump to the underside of the shower tray. If that’s loose it could allow water to leak out.

I would be installing a walk in shower tray.

When we had bathrooms done about 4 years ago not one person would quote for a wet room. They all said it was possible, but they all said at some point we would have issues.

Thanks for the advice all!

@DT78 yes hindsight etc etc, my plan is to use a watering can over the sloped tiles into drain to see if I can see any leaking pipes from below, if not then the assumption is ‘somewhere’ there is damage to the membrane.

@submarined yes previous owners were peak hipster, I have the same in the en suite, I hate the scaffolding but the wood top is quite nice and I can’t be arsed with replacing them. They had a desk made of scaffolding too but fortunately took it with them.

@neverownenoughbikes I think that’s the case, yes (that’s the side of house the waste comes out of when running bath, taps or shower) but there’s a good few pipes up there and I’m not brave enough take too much ceiling down to work it out until I have a solution otherwise I’ll incur the wrath of SWMBO.

Walk in shower tray is on the list of solutions, but I’m not sure the implications for existing waterproofing (surely I can’t just leave the waterproofing on the walls, stuff a tray in and silicone it all to shower panel and two walls?). Then there’s the question of how to fit the tray, they’ve obviously cut the floor (and some joists?) out to fit the shower tray form thingummy which is not flat so presume that all has to come out, floor made good etc before putting a tray in. Though if it’s a case of ripping out a handful more tiles fixing the floor there and ignoring the rest of the room that sounds tempting.

Looking at those black water marks on the tile adhesive and door frame, id say water has been getting under the tile anyway, but if the membrane is correctly installed I can’t see how it would get through the ceiling, so I’d suspect the gasket underneath the trap or a bad joint on the pipe work first I think.

Impey wet decks should be fixed to the top of joists (not cut into them) and nogged out to support edges, but I always over support them as I’ve seen a few flex enough to move tiles when stood on when following minimum specs.   I’ve probably fitted upwards of 50 of them, but have  flush mounted shower trays in my own house…

So definitely an Impey, almost certainly an Aqua-Dec EasyFit. Further investigation from underneath there’s no evidence of any leakage around the trap and based on water marks in the ceiling it’s not the waste piping either. Looks like plenty of water marks on either end of a wooden support that’s been installed along the edge of the wet deck under where the glass shower panel was, right on the edge of where the loose tiles were removed from. I’ve drilled another tactical hole downstairs (don’t tell the wife) to see further along this support, the other side of another beam in the ceiling and see the same water marks.

So looks to me like there’s a split in the tanking (which is not Impey, we think it’s topps tiles based on partially visible text) along the edge of the wet deck.

What’s the easiest solution? If I pull up the wet deck, can I fit new floor then a slim shower tray on top, seal it to both walls and the glass panel and make do?

If I pull up all the floor tiles, can I get away with just redoing the floor membrane (without having to touch the walls)?

Or..?

If everything below the floor is dry apart from where the glass shower screen edge then maybe there was just a poor seal along the base of the shower screen?

Replace the screen a few cm inboard of its previous position so the tile joint is outboard of the screen. If there is any water seeping beneath the refixed screen it hopefully won’t reach the grout line to get beneath the tiles?

Is there evidence of membrane beneath the bathroom floor towards the sink?

For anyone remotely interested, I refitted the screen slightly inward with loads more sealant, one shower and more water coming down, also could see it coming out from under the tiles. Took the screen back out, pulled up another tile over the wet deck and the problem becomes very obvious! Not sure if they ran out of waterproofing membrane or this is some new way to sort of half waterproof a room?!

Resigned to removing the wet deck, rebuilding the floor and putting in a new tray and panel unless anyone has any better suggestions! Presume there is no way I can make this work without taking up all the floor and redoing it all properly, which is more hassle than just fitting a tray..

so, there is no membrane under the actual tray bit? im not familar with the specific tray like the guys above. maybe its built in to the tray so membrane isnt needed? for jnstance i had a low profile tray so i used membrane around it but not under it. but that was a solid tray, nit tiled.

sucks when stuff goes wrong doesnt it.

ive just spotted a year old fancy expensive tap has rust spots. the other bathrooms cheap screwfix jobs are still perfect….

My understanding from everything I’ve watched/ read about ranking a wet room, is that the membrane should cover absolutely everything. Because they’ve left an edge here, either it wasn’t sealed fully or movement in the poorly laid tile has lifted it, and water has been running underneath. Then they’ve put a square of membrane over the centre into the drain…

I dislike expensive things that fail early (or things that are made to look expensive but underneath are a massive bodge). Beauty is skin deep for sure in the case of this house!

The impey system should have the deck fitted and then waterproof corners fitted, vertical and horizontal tape to all joints over lapping and then a membrane placed over everything with butyl sealant in the corners.  The membrane on the floor is (should be) sandwiched between the drain fittings before tiling.

I’m amazed your tiles even stuck let alone anything being water tight!