Well scotland didnt get independance, thread

He’s a stubborn egotist who believes he’s always right. Since being booted out all he’s done is have a massive sulk that would put Nicholas Anelka to shame

Does that seem like someone who’s embarked on a voyage of self discovery, and critical self-analysis to you? He’s always massively over-estimated his own abilities. And he’ll fail now, like he’s always failed. We’ll all end up with some cobbled together nonsense that changes nothing

tbh i think the only person that came out of this morning looking good was salmond – and thats from someone who detests the man.

His speech after his defeat – if he manages to deliver on it could very well be his legacy.

binners I think you’re being very harsh on GB. He inherited a poisoned chalice and was vilified in the media. Not sure I would trust Damien McBride’s account either. I’d agree GB should have been more bold but he was doomed whatever happened.

And blaming him for the global economic meltdown is a classic piece of Tory spin.

trail_rat – I think thats been a constant theme through the whole campaign. I can’t stand him either on a personal level, but you’ve got to have some respect for him, and what he’s done. He’s forced the complete re-negotiation of the British constitution. If there was one? which there isn’t. so now there will be. Lets not underestimate that. We can all become citizens, instead of subjects

We all should be grateful to him for that!

Who remembers John Major’s Citizens’ Charter?

He’s a pathetic, tragic figure, so I wouldn’t be expecting him to actually deliver much more now. All mouth and no trousers, who’s political legacy is nearly bankrupting the country!

😀

Well, whatever he is, he got top marks for that speech the other day. Remember, this whole referendum thing was based on emotion, not facts, so he got it spot on.

And blaming him for the global economic meltdown is a classic piece of Tory spin.

I can’t see that up there. You must have your red tinted glasses on.

He was at the helm when the wheels fell off the economy. GB didn’t think it was serious; it would blow over.

He must have been looking at the figures with his bad eye.

grum – as chancellor GB was in awe of the city, gave them everything they wanted, and more, then issued toadying, cringe-worthy eulogies to them. While not giving a flying **** about manufacturing or any other area of the economy. So he carries a huge responsibility for what happened, and what he should have seen coming, as that was his job! And maybe he would have done if he wasn’t so pathetically fawning to The City, and blinked about what they were actually up to

And as PM he was an absolute disaster

So going back to my original point – I wouldn’t rely on him to deliver. He’s as much a part of the Westminster establishment as Cameron. And their interests will come before everyone else’s, make no mistake

Binners has it smack on. GB was a dreadful chancellor and an even worse PM.

Secular Federated Republic with an elected second chamber and an elected President.

Yes please.

Let’s go.

Is anyone suggesting that GB is coming back into mainstream politics then? 😯

I really had hoped we’d seen the last of him.

Well, whatever he is, he got top marks for that speech the other day. Remember, this whole referendum thing was based on emotion, not facts, so he got it spot on.

Which is what I was getting at. I never thought much of the man beforehand but I thought he came across very passionately and I am sure he won the No Vote a few votes with his involvement.

Arise Sir Alistair and Sir Gordon…

Binners – a bit of cynicism is a good thing, but your absolute trashing of everything to ever come out of anywhere political is wearing thin. You don’t sound objective, you sound like a ranting loon.

It’s just too easy to slag off Westminster as some kind of evil cabal, but it’s just not true. It’s incompetent more than anything else.

Are you saying Westminster are looking after their own interests? What might these be? How can ‘Westminster’ as a whole have any kind of common interest?

Gotta say I have a new-found respect for Gordon Brown. Never liked him before but he put the Union Labour ahead of personal ambitions.

Don’t forget that labour would be screwed without Scotland.

ok, so now that scotland has voted, would everyone mind awfully if the other 95% of the population of the united kingdom could now vote on the same issue please?

ta

Are you saying Westminster are looking after their own interests? What might these be? How can ‘Westminster’ as a whole have any kind of common interest?

You really are hopelessly naive at times Molls. I view ‘The Establishment’ with utter contempt, because that is all they’re worthy of. The three main parties are all in the thrall of a totally discredited corporatist philosophy that suits nobody but those at the top, who benefit enormously. And they simply refuse to look past it. Their self-serving agendas have been indistinguishable for decades.

They ruthlessly defend their own pampered positions, while exclusively representing the interests of global financiers, and corporate lobbyists. The actual interests of their citizens/subjects are frankly incidental and of little significance.

Why do you think they looked so panicked last week? This is people demanding actual change. And nothing scares them more than that. They want things exactly as they are. No change. As it suits them quite nicely, thank you. And GB is just as complicit in that as Boris Johnson or any Tory. Tony Blair – who apparently was a labour MP – is the very living embossment of this morality-free grasping, corporate fawning greed, and self-interest!

We’re desperate for this, can’t you see?

Quite obviously we weren’t.

Don’t forget that labour would be screwed without Scotland.

Ohh yes definitely agreed.

45% were. Now the fact that that part of the ‘united’ kingdom – as well as many other parts of this sceptred isle – is evenly divided is plain to see.

It’s not over…

They ruthlessly defend their own pampered positions, while exclusively representing the interests of global financiers, and corporate lobbyists. The actual interests of their citizens/subjects are frankly incidental and of little significance.

You talk, all I hear is one-sided spin. As I mentioned previously, you can add embitterment and vitriol to anything but it doens’t really help figure out what’s actually happening – in fact it makes it a lot harder.

Go back and nibble some more grass. Baaaaaa…

Awwww bless… think they give a toss about you? Like your interests even register? Wake up Molls, for gods sake!

All 3 parties represent exclusively the interests of Corporate lobbyists and global financiers. If you can’t see that then you’re letting your naiveté and misplaced optimism blind you to whats staring you in the face!

Tony Blair – who apparently was a labour MP – is the very living embossment of this morality-free grasping, corporate fawning greed, and self-interest!

Bet you voted for him though Binners? 8)

Why do you think they looked so panicked last week? This is people demanding actual change. And nothing scares them more than that. They want things exactly as they are. No change. As it suits them quite nicely, thank you. And GB is just as complicit in that as Boris Johnson or any Tory

Whilst I can agree with the sentiment in general terms, surely Dave & The T’s would’ve benefitted more from Scotland voting Yes? They would probably have been in Government for years if Labour had lost their Scottish voters.

I see the No vote as saving the world from such an occurrence and, hopefully, a catalyst for a better deal for all.

It’s not over…

It is for you! 😀

I mean lets look at the facts, 1.5m of 70 odd m people and you had your chance. They won’y be stupid enough to let such a minority cause such a hoo ha again!

You talk, all I hear is one-sided spin. As I mentioned previously, you can add embitterment and vitriol to anything but it doens’t really help figure out what’s actually happening – in fact it makes it a lot harder

its because you aren’t listening to anything that isn’t expressed on your terms….

its because you aren’t listening to anything that isn’t expressed on your terms….

What’s that supposed to mean?

The reason why the Westminster elite were bricking themselves was the prospect of losing Scotland’s oil reserves as collateral for the UK treasury borrowing. Up until that point they were perfectly content for the Scots to rubber stamp the status quo.

binners – why do you want to stay here? You must hate every day that passes!

All 3 parties represent exclusively the interests of Corporate lobbyists

binners is quite right. I look forward to a political party that supports the free market and not a tax-funded corporate system of chronyism.

mudshark – Member
binners – why do you want to stay here? You must hate every day that passes!

I’m actually quite a happy bunny. Thinking our political system is only worthy of contempt, and generally being happy aren’t incompatible really, are they? Its not like its the most important thing in life, is it? That’d be…

😀

grum – Member
binners I think you’re being very harsh on GB. He inherited a poisoned chalice and was vilified in the media.

You are kidding – they achieved budget surpluses in the early days and could have managed the economy in a sensible fashion BUT hubris and incompetent took over.

And blaming him banks for the global economic meltdown is a classic piece of political spin.

Well that was pretty close. I think they could have won it with a more intelligent, articulate campaign. Giving actual answers to genuine questions and concerns rather than just saying “hope over fear” or “you sound like a unionist” or “project fear” or whatever

It reminded me a bit of Lois Griffin in this episode of family guy!

What’s that supposed to mean?

jesus, really??

ok, and I’ll keep it brief because I’m at work; you struggle to see past people’s emotive language. You dismiss it as spin whereas its usually well thought out personal opinion that’s condensed into a few words for brevity on an internet forum. You seem to need everything drenched in facts and figures before you can accept it as a valid argument. The really ironic thing Molgrips is that ANY position can be supported by numbers which makes your approach extremely naïve. That’s the real spin, and you don’t even see it…

I am pleased GB remains as one, but disappointed as a yes vote would have made for exiting times and would have been interesting as an observer looking from the outside in.

Now we will see if Dave can deliver on the promises he made.

Now we will see if Dave can deliver on the promises he made.

Doesn’t have the best track record, does he? Mind you, we’ve got Nick – the Deputy PM himself. He signed the pledge for change too. I seem to recall he’s signed pledges in the past though. Hmmmmmm

And Molls wonders why I’m cynical?

On a more worrying note: me, Wopster and thm seem to be in agreement on something 😯

Well from my own point of view I see the no vote as a depressing confirmation that any form of radicalism or appetite for real change is dead. It would appear that people living in the western ‘democracies’ are content to sacrifice any form of influence and self-determination to the political and corporate establishment in return for a just about acceptable standard of living. I can’t help but think that they will live to regret it.

just for you binners – he said sorry, so that’s ok then.
I wonder if there’ll be another one when Cameron doesn’t deliver on these “extra powers”

On a more worrying note: me, Wopster and thm seem to be in agreement on something

Well, we agree on the nature of the problem. I doubt our solutions align even remotely.

Still, small mercies… 8)