Well a policeman came round on Friday (IANAL, are you?)

bit of a long one I’m afraid but there you go.

So policeman comes to discuss a collision I was involved in 2 months ago. Now this seemed odd seeing as I’ve not had one but I thought fine see what up. I’m the interview under caution, I was driving up a 2lane one way street, the LH lane is a bus lane, RH is cars and there is parking down the right hand side. I drove up, braked and started to reverse park into a space as the road starts to bend to the right. There’s a bus coming up behind me but I don’t think there’s space to pass as he’ll cut the corner like always happens there so I carry on. The bus tries to pass, realises there isn’t space we both brake with no collision (but not a lot of space), he shouts and swears through a closed window and I flipped the bird and then carried on my maneuver, he drives off. Apparently someone on the bus got hurt (although I wasn’t aware of this) and the driver stopped up the road, and reported it to the police who attended.

After the interview I was charged with failing to report a collision and Driving without due care. Now IANAL but how am I supposed to assume I’ve been in a collision when no contact takes place, I’m not informed of any injuries and the other vehicle drives off. Also how is it DWODCA if the passing driver nearly hits me (but doesn’t)? Any ideas on how to dispute it if they decide to prosecute? Bus driver is facing no charges apparently.

CCTV in the area?

CCTV on the bus? (including the “fall”) ?

Was “damage” to the bus (after the collision) reported back at the bus depot (as I would expect?).

There *must* be a record of the incident at the bus company.

I suggest you talk to someone who IAL.

hhmmm … ask them for proof of a collision by showing them your car? Not sure who to appeal to until they prosecute you.

“Define collision” would have been my initial response.

Agree re cctv and bus company records.

The cynic in me thinks that the passenger has tried to claim off the bus company and they are spreading the blame.

There is no dispute that there was no contact, it took 2 months to contact me as the driver reported the wrong reg no and police had to get it from buses cctv.

Ring and speak to the Bus/depot Manager.

Request pictures of the damage with your paint on and vice versa. I’d fight it if there was no contact.

One thing that does go against you- you continued to reverse. You shouldn’t have. When reversing you have no right of way over other cars.

you need to builda weight of evidence now as the above carries points doesn’t it.

So take detailed pics of your car now and ask for the same (and in writing)

does your insurance include legal cover?

assuming that the passenger/bus company are trying to get money out of you too I’d consider talking to them and getting some legal advice.

Enhft, it was, closely followed by how am I reasonably expected to assume that someone has been injured when there is no contact and no notification. Apparently I should report those near misses, if I did that when I’m riding I’d never be off the phone.

The Bus Driver seems to be at fault here, as he has an injured passenger, he is trying to get the blame put onto you.
As there did not seem to be any collision, you were not to know that there had been any injuries (you dont have to be involved in the collision to have caused it – e.g., you pull out of a side street, the 1st car stops in time, but the one behind goes into the back of him, you were not involved in the collision, but did cause it).
As (it seems?) you did not leave the scene of the alleged collision, then you really cannot be charged with not reporting it, as you were not aware, and could have been informed by the other driver at the scene.
Any Solicitor would probably get this thrown out before any Court proceedings.
I’m on a Legal forum, I’ll post there, (details edited) and see what the result is.

Insurance legal cover doesn’t include challenging prosecution only insurance claims, which haven’t been made.

I think the issue is

should a ‘no collision’ road incident be reported to the police.

?

Which is just a matter of someone deciding what the wording of the law is. Like a lawyer.

Insurance legal cover doesn’t include challenging prosecution only insurance claims, which haven’t been made

Who will the passenger claim from?

I’m on a Legal forum, I’ll post there, (details edited) and see what the result is.

Good old STW community spirit in full swing 🙂

Ok, a bit out of touch with my law but if I remember correctly section 170 of the Road Traffic Act requires you to stop and exchange names and addresses. It only becomes reportable if damage is done to a third party’s property or injury is caused (or certain animals hurt). There doesn’t have to be a collision as such. (There’s something about “due to the presence of a vehicle on the road…” which I can’t remember off the top of my head).

Also, I don’t think you’ve been charged, just “NIP”d – given a notice of intended prosecution. The evidence will be considered and a decision made as to whether there is enough evidence.

It could be argued that if you were unsure as to whether an accident took place you should have reported it but I personally think that’s a bit dubious as the local police stations would be full of people reporting near misses.

A DWODCA is possible as you’ve continued a manoeuvre with limited space when waiting to confirm the bus has stopped would have been the safe option.

It’s a “your word against his” job (unless the bus has video) But it could depend on how many witnesses were there on the bus that would state the bus had to brake sharply to avoid you?

Rich.

You’re under no legal obligation to report a near-miss if you have no reason to believe any damage or injuries resulted

Hora, I continued to reverse after we’d both stopped, I maintain it was not safe or clear for him to pass even if I was stationary and as such I had to manoeuvre to clear the road.

Harding v Price [1948]

😀

Alani, thanks fella.

A guy was charged with manslaughter a few months ago after hopping off the pavement on his bike, in front of a bus. A passenger died after hitting his head when the bus driver braked to avoid the cyclist.

These things are certainly possible. The issue would be if you were doing anything wrong. Being stationary in the road surely wouldn’t make you responsible. Pulling out or cutting the bus up would be a different matter.

Ninfan surely
Arkell v. Pressdram (1971)
😉

the driver reported the wrong reg no and police had to get it from buses cctv.

In which case the police will have seen exactly what didn’t happen and you should be in the clear … Non ?

There should also be video from inside the bus if the bus company want to contest the claim from the injured passenger.

I’d certainly reword things a bit, but that’s what the lawyer is for.

It was clear to commence your manoeuvre, so started to reverse. During that manoeuvre you realised that a bus driver was going to force his way past, so you did the right thing by stopping immediately. No collision occurred, so you continued to park the car. You remained at the scene.
The bus driver left the scene of the incident without exchanging details, since there had been no collision.

Apparently I should report those near misses, if I did that when I’m riding I’d never be off the phone.

not trying to talk big talk but if a police person said that to me I would laugh in their face. I’ve reported actual collisions and **** all happened WTF would I waste my time with all the almosts*?

But continuing with the IANAL themed culpability blame game, bus driver drove off OP did not, passenger was in bus driver’s care and no doubt will be claiming on bus companies insurance. If CCTV shows OPs stated version of events to be true then all down to the bus driver. Only other possible thing could be parking on a bend?

*which since switching to mainly offroad commuting are now thankfully very few.

If we have to report every near miss where someone may or may not have been hurt, whether I’m riding or driving, I’d be on the phone to the police several times a journey!

IANAL but andytherocketeer’s description of events sounds perfectly plausible and reasonable and, unless the cctv will prove you a liar, this would be the version of events I would be pushing.

If the cctv shows I clearly entered the bus lane I might be more accepting (I’m going to ask to see it) but IMO I didn’t cross into the business, he encroached into my lane, with the caveat it happened 2 months ago so I’m not certain.

Id hire andytherocketeer

After the interview I was charged with failing to report a collision and Driving without due care

No, you weren’t.

Also, I don’t think you’ve been charged, just “NIP”d – given a notice of intended prosecution. The evidence will be considered and a decision made as to whether there is enough evidence.

The training-school verbal NIP is quite clumsy, along the lines of “you will be reported for the consideration of the question of prosecuting you…” and is a warning that you may be prosecuted. All the evidence will be reviewed before the decision is made, and the point is to prompt you that you may be prosecuted so you have time to consider your defence, by posting on cycle forums etc.

2 replies from a Legal forum:
1:
It sounds as if they have decided to prosecute, if the friend has been
“charged” with an offence (presumably under s170 of the Road Traffic Act
1988 unless there is a more recent provision).

The obligation to report an accident is a strict one. It might be a
defence to persuade the court that you were unaware of any injury to
anyone, but perhaps some damaging admissions were made to the police.

Driving without due care seems a viable prosecution.

The friend needs to get legal advice from a criminal practitioner.

2:You might still be guilty of due care and the accident be your fault (due to
the presence of your vehicle on the road), but I can’t see the failure to
stop sticking, especially as you parked up.

*throws away the key*

I had a very slow (2-3 mph) rear end shunt into the car in front a couple of weeks ago. No damage to either car.
Being unsure of procedure I rang the police to report it, they told me I wasn’t under any obligation to report a collision unless someone was hurt…

Question that I’m going to cast out there….

Could the police have ascertained the registered keepers details and served an NIP within 14 days using reasonable diligence?

Now, I don’t want to cast aspersions – but I’m going to suggest that the ‘driver gave the wrong number’ could be a convenient excuse for it having sat in someones in tray for several weeks.

just putting it out there, but you might want to look carefully at the whole ‘wrong number’ scenario…

(IIRC the 14 day limit would not apply where the driver was knowingly involved in an accident – seems everyone here agrees he wasn’t)

Being unsure of procedure I rang the police to report it, they told me I wasn’t under any obligation to report a collision unless someone was hurt…

I had the same when I nudged a car when parking up – seemed to be no damage but left a number and called plod (just to cover bases).

I got the impression that they thought I was wasting their time.

I don’t think the NIP applies where there has been a reportable accident.

The requirement of section 1(1) of this Act does not apply in relation to an offence if, at the time of the offence or immediately after it, an accident occurs owing to the presence on a road of the vehicle in respect of which the offence was committed.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/2

As for the “accident”. If the bus was forced to brake because of the OP’s car and a passenger was injured then that is a reportable RTA. No contact between the vehicles is needed.

There is case law that a driver can not be done for failing to report if he could not know an accident had occurred as it is requiring the impossible.

It doesn’t stack up to me though – if someone was injured, why did the driver of the bus carry on? Surely he would have pulled over and, as the OP was parked up, they could have easily swapped insurance details at that point.

Or did the bus driver think it was a good idea to carry on despite having someone injured on the bus?

Lawyer is your best bet, especially as failing to stop can carry a custodial sentence or heavy fine.

However, being genuinely unaware that an accident has taken place is a clear defence to this charge. And not exactly an implausible one, given that there’s no evidence of contact at all! You’d hope the CPS would see the futility of trying to pursue this one.

It’s probably too late now, but you should never agree to an interview under caution without your own/the duty solicitor present. It was basically a fishing expedition by plod, and as they’ve charged you, you probably said too much/the wrong thing.

If it was exactly as you say, then you’ve done nothing wrong, but you are now in a hole that you need to properly defend yourself out of. The best thing that can save you is the CCTV from the bus, you need to request that they preserve it (and ask nicely for them to provide you with a copy). Your argument is probably that it was the bus driver that left the scene – you were parking so went no where, it was him that drove off and later called the police from another location.

I’d suggest joining PistonHeads forums, and post in the ‘Speed, Plod & Law’ section (you won’t be able to as a new member, so post in one of the other sections and ask for it to be moved). Some experts (including motoring solicitors) post in there.

The fact that there was no contact is neither here nor there 20+ years ago I successfully claimed a car who pulled out on me whilst I was already overtaking(put me off road at commando memorial at Spean Bridge). He claimed he was totally unaware of me leaving the road in the subsequent correspondence and would not give his insurance details for a crash he was unaware of (even though he went to pull back in just as I left the road then pulled out again and legged it) He changed his tune when my insurance company said they were going to sue him for the losses if he did not give his details. HTH