Weird Theories

I give this thread 12 CHM charliemumgus

The singular is charliemungu. Equivalent to the tomfoolery of one épater of les bourgeois in Imperial measures. My name is in the plural for much as Legion in the bible, we are many.

PS were you really spoiling for an argument by not telling us you were a mathematician in the first place? Fishing for me to start proclaiming things I didn’t know about

No, not looking for an argument, just waiting for you to agree to accept all my proclamations of a mathematical nature. You are now my maths bitch.

You can use zero for counting tho surely?

But what have you counted?

Though wikipedia (I assume that’s the wiki you refer to) link also says that a number is a mathematical object used to count and measure. Since zero cannot be used for either of those things, it fails by that definition. Agreed?

But then you can’t really use a negative number to count or measure things either can you. Afterall zero apples looks very much like -1 apples when applied to the contents of a fruit bowl. That is without of course getting even more esoteric and bringing in i.

Also not a mathematician by the way, although your comment of

just waiting for you to agree to accept all my proclamations of a mathematical nature.

is an argument from authority and I’d expect better logic from a mathematician. 😉

You are now my maths bitch

Yes, master. I crave knowledge.

But what have you counted?

Depends what you are counting.

Five apples, take away two apples, take away three apples leaves no apples. Not no bananas. Context innit.

It doesn’t leave nothing necessarily – there’s still a fruit bowl, a kitchen etc.

But then you can’t really use a negative number to count or measure things either can you

Yes you can. I give you my apple, you eat it, you not only have no apples but you owe me one. You get an apple you have to give it to me and you have none. Therefore between your fruity snack and your acquiring a new apple you have -1 apples. Debt, innit. Makes more sense when you are counting pounds in your bank account.

And you can clearly use negative numbers to MEASURE things. How cold was it by you in December last year?

0 didn’t exist for hundred of years…I think it was invented by some one in india (if i am remembering the quality tv program “the history of maths”)

0 was created so that traders could use it……..so really 0 doesn’t exist it’s just something man made, because it made everything easier

0 was created so that traders could use it……..so really 0 doesn’t exist it’s just something man made, because it made everything easier

Like all NUMBERS.

However the concept of magnitude existed before humans and numbers did.

Just read Flan O’Brien – The Third Policeman if you want to see some weird theories, things like darkness just being a secretion of black air instantaneously combusted by candles, light bulbs etc or setting up a system of mirrors so he could see himself as a baby…

Personally I like the idea of doing away with changing the clocks twice a year by determining that sunrise & sunset should always be at 6 o’clock & either shortening or lengthening the hours in between to suit. 😀

Debt, innit. Makes more sense when you are counting pounds in your bank account.

Well except that in the case you made, whether or not the number is negative depends on your persepctive. For the person borrowing and eating the “apple” they have -1 apple, however the person who lent the “apple” has +1 “apple”. It’s the same “apple” but from different perspectives it can be either +ve or -ve.

Teh joe lucas smoke theory of electricity

Positive ground depends upon proper circuit functioning, the transmission of negative ions by retention of the visible spectral manifestation known as “smoke”. Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work; we know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of the electrical system, it stops working. This can be verified repeatedly through empirical testing.

When, for example, the smoke escapes from an electrical component (i.e., say, a Lucas voltage regulator), it will be observed that the component stops working. The function of the wire harness is to carry the smoke from one device to another; when the wire harness “springs a leak”, and lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing works afterwards. Starter motors were frowned upon in British Automobiles for some time, largely because they consume large quantities of smoke, requiring very large wires.

It has been noted that Lucas components are possibly more prone to electrical leakage than Bosch or generic Japanese electrics. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British and all things British leak. British engines leak oil, shock absorbers, hydraulic forks and disk brakes leak fluid, British tires leak air and the British defense establishment leaks secrets…so, naturally, British electronics leak smoke.

Negative numbers dont actually exist in the real world we dont have a minus number of anything as we can’t go past none. Extinction = zero Dodos
Temoerature is a scale and I doubt you would use that minus number for calculations !! Yaou would use the Kelvin scale but you know that as a physics studier.

Apologies Charlie i give my previous statement ” 2 JY’s”
Junkyards – SI unit of typos

For the person borrowing and eating the “apple” they have -1 apple, however the person who lent the “apple” has +1 “apple”

Exactly. -1 is still a valid quantity isn’t it. They physical quantity of apples you have is -1.

Negative numbers dont actually exist in the real world

Yes they do. Electric charge can be both positive and negative, as can many other things. Negative QUANTITIES or MAGNITUDES do exist. The actual names for numbers we use are irrelevant of course.

But then you can’t really use a negative number to count or measure things either can you.

You can use negative numbers to measure things

Why all the bickering?

0 is a strange beast anyway. The long and the short of it is that mathematicians pretty much get to decide on the properties of numbers, kind inventing the rules to suit them.

So CM:

Though at a tangent I would question the idea of a measure of a charge of 2e before we were around

Care to elaborate?

yeah, stuff had charge, but the quantity 2e was meaningless until we defined both those terms.

Besides, I’m a physicist, so you have to believe me.

The quantity e is not meaningless.. which is why I chose it, it’s a natural unit.

Some units are not only natural but fundamental (like the planck length) not a number we’ve ascribed.

I see what you mean, the Helium nucleus always had a charge resulting from its 2 protons, but that is only 2e because we defined e as the charge of a proton. To say that the charge was always 2e is a bit like saying the metre existed before man, sure there were things that were a metre long. But our naming (and measuring) of these things only came after we defined our terms.

You can use negative numbers to measure things

elaborate CM please.

Electric charge can be both positive and negative

yes but I never claimed we could not have negative polarity just that quantities cannot go below zero. In a counting system the least you can ever have is nothing. Square root of any negative intger kind of proves it is not real and abstract IMHO – it can only be created once you have the symbols of maths to manipulate numbers /symbols to creat a negative number you cannot show me -1 apple but I can show you three apples etc

EDIT: do you two never work even I am getting distracted for few minutes

In a counting system the least you can ever have is nothing

yes, but measurement is not the same as counting.

we defined e as the charge of a proton an electron

Surely?

In any case e is still fundamental to chemistry and hence to lots of things. If we used a unit of f equal to 1.5e then a helium nucleus would be 1 1/3f instead of 2e. It’s fundamental to the way the universe works – unlike a metre.

In a counting system the least you can ever have is nothing

No, not at all, hence the concept of debt. Just because -1 apple isn’t a physical item doesn’t mean it’s any less valid. The same is true for physical systems, which is why we have solids with ionic bonds.

EDIT: do you two never work even I am getting distracted for few minutes

of course I do! I’m busy being a mathematician and a physicist

Charlie’s job is Internet Physics and Maths liason for the University of Somewhere.

you are getting semantical with me now mmmmhhhhh

Which is nicely metaphorical for our actual conversation.

we defined e as the charge of a proton an electron
Surely?

well, then the charge of the nucleus would be -2e, but yes this is beside the point

In any case e is still fundamental to chemistry and hence to lots of things.

If we used a unit of f equal to 1.5e then a helium nucleus would be 1 1/3f instead of 2e. It’s fundamental to the way the universe works – unlike a metre.

sure, but the 2e-ness of it is a human measure. The charge is fundamental but it all worked before we knew it as 2e.

I’m not sure we disagree here.

you are getting semantical

Don’t start being Anti-semantic!

Fascist!!

I’m not sure we disagree here.

Probably not. If we stop arguing now before the definitive answer of whether or not we disagree has been ascertained then we will continue to both agree and disagree as two superimposed states.

What’s your actual job btw?

What’s your actual job btw?

Hircine access control manager.

Hircine access control manager.

You’re kidding!

yeah, mainly from sub-transversal sites

can someone explain the IT crowd in joke?

Hircine means goat-like (in the same way bovine means cow-like). Kids are baby goats.

Jokes are like frogs, they die when you dissect them.

I knew that I thought it was a genuine IT job though 😳

See, Hircine access control means i keep an eye on goats which go past, and sub-transversal means i do it from under a bridge.

If I tell you that my catch phrase is “Who’s that trip trapping over my bridge?” does it become funny yet?

pulls dunce cap over eyes and refuses to look anymore

I’ve just been reading, got caught up in the numerical significance of zero. It is interesting that it’s more of a philisophical construct because you are envisaging the lack of something. Such as I have zero jaffa cakes left, which also challenges the idea of my afternoon tea. what will I have with it? I feel I am having a philisophical crises. The reality of my tea break is supported by the things that make up that time. With them gone, it’s just another ponderous moment with little purpose. on no, what’s the point!!