Ukraine

Would the Russians have done all those things if they hadn’t been fighting?

Yes. They have form.

As soon as possible truss will be in Moscow negotiating cheap hydrocarbons as a run up to the next election.

The caring tories selflessly turning the other cheek and starting the healing process.
God bless ‘em.

Well unlike North Korea there is a healthy middle class, I used to talk to them most days in my last job. They holiday like us, go out and buy TVs etc. One of my work colleagues was a keen cyclist. They’ll all soon wake up and realise that their slowly shunting back to the Soviet Union.

So let’s stop them having all the trappings of European luxury. I’m sorry for the good ones, but they too are complicit.

They’ll all soon wake up and realise that their slowly shunting back to the Soviet Union.

But in a brutally repressive state, what will they be able to do about it?

Keep in mind that otherwise sensible Americans lost their minds over terrorism 20 years ago. Russians have a much more restricted media and political opposition has been destroyed so the propaganda about Nazis would be easy for people to believe.

It follows that Nazism is an external enemy that should be destroyed at any cost. The initial view was that Nazis have seized power in Ukraine, while ordinary Ukrainians are just some sort of Russians with silly ideas about their identity and a ridiculous language 3/11

— Greg Yudin (@YudinGreg) April 3, 2022

For ‘Nazis’, substitute ‘Jews’ and ‘Communists’ in 1930s Germany. The idea of ‘purifying’ a population is rather familiar too.

This is a war launched by a fascist dictator, who is attempting genocide in real time in a European democracy. At some point NATO may have to get involved more directly, depending on how well the Ukrainians are doing in Donbas and the south.

The images and testimony emerging right now are horrifying.

It’s such a shame that Russia has nukes, I can’t see any way out of this.

I’m fairly sure some people are busy trying to figure out how to take Putin out without causing nuclear Armageddon.

I’m sorry for the good ones, but they too are complicit.

How?

I genuinely can’t remember the usernames of those who did

I can, but I won’t name them so they can come back and reframe all they said.

But I do recall how their “friends in Ukraine” wish it had never started (I think even Putin wishes that now), but their view that surrender to occupation would just mean going back to their nice lives, just with a different flag flying from the town hall was hopelessly naïve.

Ukrainians remember Stalin taking over and systematically starving 4 million of them to death; it wasn’t that long ago that all memory has faded.

They are fighting for their lives. It shows why when you see how the Russian army are just animals

But I do recall how their “friends in Ukraine” wish it had never started (I think even Putin wishes that now), but their view that surrender to occupation would just mean going back to their nice lives, just with a different flag flying from the town hall was hopelessly naïve.

You forgot the praise for Putin for bringing peace to Syria. IIRC, it was justified by “pacifism” because ending the war quickly let the Syrian people get back to rebuilding after all the damage inflicted by NATO backed terrorists, or some such nonsense.

But I do recall how their “friends in Ukraine” wish it had never started

Who are you talking about here? If you’re going to make snide comments at least have the balls to say who you’re directing them at.

Interesting to see though that some are using the execution and torture of civilians as a debating tactic on an Internet forum. It’s a very classy look.

I have the balls to call you out, but gave you the benefit of being anonymous so you didn’t look such a clot.

But there you are again.

Interesting to see though that some are using the execution and torture of civilians as a debating tactic on an Internet forum

Pointing out that Ukrainians would have been idiots to surrender because they would have faced death squads isn’t a debating tactic. However, what is a debating tactic is trying to claim that people are pointing out war crimes as a debating tactic, an utterly shameless one.

Let’s not get dragged into playing the man again on this thread.

What if the man stands up shouting “play me!”?

Then it’s a false flag and you’re best off ignoring it.

Back on topic, I knew the Russians were the “bad guys” in this, but I never suspected they’d go full attempted genocide.

What if the man stands up shouting “play me!”?

NATO probably provoked him, you should surrender so that he doesn’t lose face.

Revisiting the early pages of this thread reveals some absolutely sensational bad takes alongside some excellent parroting of Kremlin talking points.

My personal contribution was suggesting that the UK would not impose any meaningful economic sanctions. 🙂

Lots of us have been very wrong at various points on this thread.

Back on topic, I knew the Russians were the “bad guys” in this, but I never suspected they’d go full attempted genocide.

It’s de-Nazification apparently.

Su-35 downed, pilot survived.

New photos from the crash site show that the shot down jet is in fact a single-seater, which suggests that it is likely a Su-27/35.

As claimed, the pilot was captured. pic.twitter.com/UAgApYzsZA

— ?? Ukraine Weapons Tracker (@UAWeapons) April 3, 2022

A Ukrainian farmer will be along to tow it away shortly.

Interesting to see though that some are using the execution and torture of civilians as a debating tactic on an Internet forum. It’s a very classy look.

Wow. A’ debating tactic’?  This is a thread about the war in Ukraine.  Why wouldn’t such a significant emerging factor be discussed on here? I don’t see anyone using it as a ‘tactic’.

I really don’t know where the world will go in relation to taking to Russia now
Busha a place we have probably never heard of is reporting some horrid truly horrid things being done.
It cannot be rouge soldiers now just a nations army running amuck and brutality killing and raping.
They have stolen 400 odd jumbo jets.
I’ve always called it Putin’s war on here as the population are admittedly behind a digital wall.
But honestly they now know what’s going on in there countrys name now. it’s not just some stranger in a far flung part of the world it’s there brothers and sisters.
Yes it’s hard to stand up to Putin’s thugs but they know who the bad guy is here.

Ukraine re took pripyat and the reactors today I wonder how many radioactive Russian conscripted soldiers they will find dead and left

This is on such a widespread scale, that there is no way senior officers weren’t aware and complicit. It’s so brazen it can only be officially sanctioned policy.  If this is what has been discovered in the areas the Russians hastily vacated – what is happening on the ground in the areas this still occupy, where they have time to cover stuff up?

I really don’t know how Russia as a nation can ever be accepted back into any kind of normal relationship with the rest of the world after this.

https://t.co/QCjuBoyyTD

— Blond Girl ???? (@blondynaradka) April 3, 2022

None hopefully as that would mean they had been incredibly stupid in accessing restricted areas, or there has been a leak as yet unreported
Chernobyl is the worry. If Pootin really gets upset, or even some of his generals they could launch an artillery strike on the sarcophagus that encapsulates the melt down.
As im not actually a scientist i dont know what would happen but i suspect bad things. I think if the wind was blowing a northerly then a cloud of radioactive debris cpuld cover a section of Ukraine making it impossible to grow crops for a few years.

As to what more can NATO do, not alot without boots on the ground. More, newer, high tech weapons are necessary but require traind personnel. Bussing select groups into poland for intensive training is probably achievable and hard to stop.
Turn Moldova into a forward operating base also do able but is probably a step too far.
I would like to see the black sea fleet on the bottom of the sea though. dunno if starstreak can be used as antiship or its not powerful enough.
And some of those thugs in Moscow can be petrol bombed as well coz they are proper tossers arresting people with blank peices of paper

the twitter site for the Kremlin is rightfully getting dogs abuse. Its not posted since the 15th of March.

Wow. A’ debating tactic’? This is a thread about the war in Ukraine. Why wouldn’t such a significant emerging factor be discussed on here?

Because it’s obviously a tactic to blame the atrocities on Russia instead of NATO. And it also avoids the Ukrainian responsibility for the outrageous price of fish and chips.

Reddit is full of videos of young Russians celebrating the actions of their soldiers and calling for these actions in Ukraine. The society is sick to the core. Yes 10k protested and they’re a brave minority but they are a tiny minority.

10k protestors. How many “young Russians”?

They have stolen 400 odd jumbo jets.

Eh?

@slowoldman “Stolen Jumbos” are leased and the payments have dried up iirc.

Eh?

My understanding of it, is that the jets in Russia/question that belong to western owners (as they are leased) are now effectively confiscated. However, the parts for those jets can no longer be sourced. And no one is going to lease Russia any more as they’re thieves.

I believe they’d be able to keep them flying for a time within Russian airspace, but with increasingly poor condition. Outside Russian airspace I think, they are no longer certified to fly.

One of those situations where Putin was banking on western companies/governments not being willing to take the loss.

https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-steal-billion-lease-aircraft-eu/

@ singletrackmind
There are soldiers in hospital with radiation sickness after digging up the forbidden area around the red Forrest reports one had died.
Tank dust and fox holes uncovering top soil

had been incredibly stupid in accessing restricted areas

Soldiers got a big dose digging trenches in radioactive soil aparently.

Putin’s mate, Orban re-elected I see.

Hungary is heading in a very bad direction. You would think it would look at Ukraine and have a good, hard think about its future… but nope.

I despair of people sometimes.

Putin’s mate, Orban re-elected I see.

Is that good or bad for the price of fish and chips?

Looking at the headlines across the European and UK press this morning I’m wondering how long it will be before anyone can no longer justify not taking direct action against the Russian forces. Having pictures of slaughtered people lying in the street on the front pages is really extreme. Note I DO NOT want a full-on war as that leads down some properly scary paths but it does look like Putin is completely uncontrollable and is deliberately pushing the limits of our tolerance.

At what point does the rest of the world snap?

I’m wondering how long it will be before anyone can no longer justify not taking direct action against the Russian forces.

Biden has made it clear that he’s not going to commit U.S. forces. NATO is not going to join in without U.S. backing.

It’s also clear that Ukraine has the manpower, leadership, and training to bet the Russians. They need equipment. Whether NATO will provide the gear they need to go on the offensive is the big question. Dislodging Russians from well dug in positions will be a different thing than ambushing their convoys out in the countryside.

Ideally since Odessa is now heading towards the same point as Mariupol, some hips need to mysteriously sink in the sea of Azov…