Ukraine

I thought this was powerful

„- Hi honey. What is Dima’s shoe size? 18? I‘ve got him cool shoes, blue ones. Yeah, I guess Polish ones. Luv u.“ By Potapenko Iryna and Olha Chorna pic.twitter.com/3deaDlbwyd

— Sergej Sumlenny (@sumlenny) April 2, 2022

Background

https://twitter.com/tvt_nova/status/1510222464114167808?t=9TYWzTRIFNQsEtQ__tBwpg&s=1

https://native-games-studio.itch.io/sunflowerslap

Give him a slap lol.

pic.twitter.com/uZ57igvIVt

— Sven-Erik Volberg (@poliitikasse) April 2, 2022

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60949706?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=624865b94f71af55b4616787%26In%20pictures%3A%20Wrecked%20remains%20of%20the%20world%27s%20largest%20plane%262022-04-02T15%3A46%3A56.662Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:16d1193a-e515-4706-b6ad-d585f9b21f6c&pinned_post_asset_id=624865b94f71af55b4616787&pinned_post_type=share

I know this is nothing compared to the scale of human suffering, but it still makes me sad- this was a genuine one off, very unlikely to be ever replicated again

Not officially part of Russia, no, but it is very much Putin’s MO to foment disorder and instability in his neighbours if they don’t offer him total allegiance.

The Hungarian election could be interesting.

There’s video emerging of the villages and towns now vacated by the Russians.

It’s ******* awful.

“Liberation” my *******arse.

Yes terrible – bodies with hands tied and shot in the head. Quite a lot from the sound of it.

^^^ I’m going to suggest some are Russian soldiers who refused orders, equally terrible for different reasons.

The way this is going i can see the iron curtain starting to go back up soon and a period of ‘rearming’.

Still hope for something different, but with Putin in charge it’s only going one direction, still struggle to believe that such a large country in this day and age is at the beck and call of one man.

Like China.

^^^ I’m going to suggest some are Russian soldiers who refused orders, equally terrible for different reasons

Possibly for some, although the BBC says they were in civilian clothes

I can’t begin to imagine the hatred many Ukrainians must feel for Putin and the Russian army right now.

I try to imagine walking through a town I knew and grew up in and seeing this devastation and death. I’d find it really difficult not to be filled with hatred and a need for vengeance.

As argee said, no one man should be allowed to have this much power to abuse in any country. It’s utterly barbaric.

^This. And all so utterly, utterly pointless. They invaded, caused all this chaos, death and destruction, and left. The military focus seems to be moving sharply East. I hope the Ukrainians get everything they could possibly need.

Maybe we should sell Ukraine a few subs full with tomahawks….

Thay are finding some horrible things in the occupied areas the Russian army has left.
Just butchers.
I don’t think for one minute they are leaving

Someone really should slot Putin.

They are **** animals. I hope more of them get cooked up in their shitty armour.

If I were Ukrainian, I think I would be driving every piece of artillery/mlrs I could find towards the Belorussian border and obliterating any Russian camp within range.

Thay are finding some horrible things in the occupied areas the Russian army has left.
Just butchers.
I don’t think for one minute they are leaving

Yes I saw some horrific footage on twitter of the towns the Russians have abandoned around Kyiv.

They know they are never going to appear in an internal court of law and Putin is going to pin a medal on their chest when they get home.

This is not the actions of a few undisciplined soldiers, it’s a deliberate and planned genocide.

And when US Intelligence agencies say they are "Shocked, shocked I tell you" about the Russian Army action in Ukraine in front of Congress.

Please refer them to all of the Phillip Karber briefings on youtube documenting exactly what the Putin Regime is.

2/ pic.twitter.com/1pvRsEIyun

— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) April 2, 2022

Verified photographs of the brutal mass murder of Ukrainian civilians are a reminder that the Russian army is not just seeking to conquer Ukraine, it is seeking to eliminate Ukrainians.

— Anne Applebaum (@anneapplebaum) April 3, 2022

For understanding: here are details from the Russian State technical standard for mass graves, it describes with plans and pictures, how the grave should be dug+isolated, how corpses should be covered with chemicals and how the full grave should be trumped by a heavy bulldozer. pic.twitter.com/6GLgE6VCX2

— Sergej Sumlenny (@sumlenny) April 2, 2022

Twitter has some grim images as the Russians level the area north of Kyiv….

And in other news, shelling started in Odessa.https://www.bbc.com/news

I guess the Russians can stay offshore and just flatten everything again and continue turning the area into rubble. Now if the Ukranians could sink a warship, or the Russians bumped into their own mines…

I just hope Turkey keeps the shipping lane closed in the Bosphorous.

Anyone who equivocates for Russia’s actions in Ukraine, or who argues that this war was always about NATO membership, or who questions the utility of arming Ukraine should take a long look at the photos from Bucha, followed by a long look in the mirror.

— Nolan Peterson (@nolanwpeterson) April 3, 2022

I’d find it really difficult not to be filled with hatred and a need for vengeance.

This is a worry to me. This invasion will – rightly – generate colossal hatred for “Russians” in Ukraine, and how do you stop that spilling over in 5 or 10 years time?

Well I said it at the start and I’m still thinking it.

If the West/Europe were to step in and fight Russia would fold quickly.

The aftermath is another topic, but I feel incredibly uncomfortable seeing what’s happening to the people of Ukraine.

If the West/Europe were to step in and fight Russia would fold quickly.

It’s very likely they would escalate and use tactical nuclear weapons.

The aftermath is another topic, but I feel incredibly uncomfortable seeing what’s happening to the people of Ukraine.

Yes. Based on Russia’s history of brutalizing civilians, this was fairly predictable, and the Ukrainians knew it. Russia’s behaviour has pretty much made a peace deal impossible, the only thing Ukraine will accept now is that all Russian forces withdraw back to Russia and Ukraine maintains a large, well equipped army to deter any further attacks.

NATO getting actively involved would be a huge mistake, but Russia is is on the back foot now so arming Ukraine to go on the offensive and drive the Russians out is the only way to put an end to the atrocities.

Instead of hoping for an impossible deal in the short term, the best way to shorten the war and save lives in the long run is to speed up support for Ukraine to continue causing these extreme loss rates on the Russian army.

— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) April 3, 2022

mentions of nukes appear to have stopped. I’m worrying that he is going to nuke Kyiv.

Why do think Ukrainians are prepared to defend as desperately as they do? They know that every town they lose means a massacre or mass rape of civilians. It’s the Russian playbook, used in Chechnya – level the cities, terrorise and kill the civilian population.

They are a superpower of genocidal scumbags. Nuclear weapons may be a deterrent against global conflicts, but they also enable smaller scale atrocities. (See also: Iraq).

Philips has it for me. Russia knows we are supplying weapons and hasn’t used nukes so that bluff has already been called. We are already involved, supplying weapons, intelligence and training. We now need to make sure the Russian attacks in the South and East fail, and are incredibly costly for the Russians.

Putting our own forces in is not the answer, but there is still a lot we can, and should do.

Also making sure the Russian people understand what is being done in their name is important, as is continuing to put pressure on neutral countries to further increase Russia’s isolation.

mentions of nukes appear to have stopped. I’m worrying that he is going to nuke Kyiv.

Kyiv is the historical capital of the Russ empire Putin harks back to – he can’t damage the city too much without undermining the whole point of his “special operation”.

Why do think Ukrainians are prepared to defend as desperately as they do? They know that every town they lose means a massacre or mass rape of civilians

You either fight to try and minimise the horrors, or surrender, and still endure the horrors. Truly awful choices to make

What do those voices on here, who advocated Ukraine just rolling over and accepting the Russian occupation for a peaceful life think now?

Mass graves of civilians, public executions, RU police units behind the frontline rounding up hit lists of Ukrainians, mobile crematoria.  This was planned, and thousands of Russians are culpable. Early on I was of the mind ‘it’s just Putin’ but that doesn’t stack up any more. There is something deeply rotten and corrupt accross Russian society.

There are some horrific images on Twitter from the retaken towns around Kiev. Systematic mass slaughter.  God knows what it is like in poor Mariupol.

How much worse would it have been if the whole country had been occupied with no western journalists to witness and report on this?

The Ukrainians knew this, and this is why they are fighting so desperately hard.  I believe we need to do everything in our power to stop Russia and hold them to account for these horrific crimes.  Reluctantly, I still think NATO boots on the ground is out, but aircraft, anti ship missiles to destroy the Black sea fleet, armour, artillery, air defence systems etc. Basically anything Ukraine wants that doesn’t have a ridiculous training or maintenance burden.  And turn the screw even more on sanctions, even if it creates pain for us in the short term. Kick them out of the UN. Whatever it takes.

I think Russia needs to be cast out of society. No person, business or entity allowed in any European country.

Nobody in Russia will see what is being done in their name with the control of media/internet.

What do those voices on here, who advocated Ukraine just rolling over and accepting the Russian occupation for a peaceful life think now?

I hope you’re not talking about me. I didn’t advocate it, I talked about it.

Would the Russians have done all those things if they hadn’t been fighting?

I think Russia needs to be cast out of society. No person, business or entity allowed in any European country.

I agree, but fear that they will just turn into an impoverished, festering, resentful North Korean like state in Europe.  But with far more nukes and an even more unhinged leader.

What do those voices on here, who advocated Ukraine just rolling over and accepting the Russian occupation for a peaceful life think now?

I thought that the forumite (and fervent Brexit supporter) who not only suggested that Ukraine should allow itself to become a Russian puppet state, but that also for an end to sanctions on Russia because the cost of their fish and chips might increase was one of the most morally and intellectually bankrupt takes I’ve read on this forum.

Would the Russians have done all those things if they hadn’t been fighting?

The Ukrainians who were massacred with their hands tied behind their backs weren’t fighting, they had surrendered. There are still a lot of WW2 survivors in Eastern Europe who remember first-hand the Red Army inflicted on their supposed friends. Nobody with any knowledge of history would trust the Russian military to not abuse civilians or POWs. The reason the Ukrainians are fighting so hard is because they knew what awaited them if they surrendered.

I hope you’re not talking about me. I didn’t advocate it, I talked about it.

No. I genuinely can’t remember the usernames of those who did, but there were a few in the nearly 7000 posts on this thread.  If you didn’t advocate it, then I’m clearly not talking about you.  Those that did, know who they are.

Would the Russians have done all those things if they hadn’t been fighting?

There seems to be evidence that much of this was pre planned.  The Russians believed they would win in a walkover in a few days.  Some Russian POWs had ceremonial uniforms with them for the victory parade through Kyiv.  Why then, if that was their expectation did they send mobile crematoria and Police units with lists of local officials and journalists etc?. This is the reality of their “de nazification”.  I think we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg here.  There are going to be some monumental crimes uncovered.

As soon as possible truss will be in Moscow negotiating cheap hydrocarbons as a run up to the next election.