UKIP having a local meeting…

dannyh – Member
I just want the interest rates to go up by 10% to boost my savings
Nothing to do with the above but thats what I want
Work out who is best to vote for in your opinion, then vote for them. If your needs are representative of a majority of other people then you’ll be laughing.
Nothing wrong with that, problem is that you have to concede that you may not be in the majority.

LOL I am not interested in UKIP I just want the interest rates to go up by 10% Plus be a good thing for the Country and enable it to turn the wheels, rather than sell if any assets this Country has left. 😉

At least they are holding a public meeting – seems like the type of thing a party should do and very few can be bothered with anymore.

I don’t think immigration is quite so clearcut economically. THM I understand your view and the studies but the issue as always with public finances pensions are forgotten. As we get older, we take money from the state, so whilst the most recent immigrants are economically positive as they are young, as they get older they will start taking money – I have never seen this satisfactorily analysed in any analysis to be completely convinced of the neutral to positive argument. The assumption seems to be more young ones will come along who will fund the old ones, which is how a ponzi scheme works!

Which is where we are now.

Correct the conclusions are not crystal clear but if anything slightly positive. UKIP like to pretend otherwise and should be challenged.

So apart from being a bit lightweight and not being the best at eating a bacon buttie what’s fundamentally wrong with Labour/Milliband?

Never argue with an idiot. Onlookers may not be able to spot the difference.

I’d say Milliband is what’s wrong with labour, he doesn’t have any appeal. At least Cameron appears statesmanlike and has it as a prime minister.

At least Cameron appears statesmanlike and has it as a prime minister.

You’re not joking are you?

😆

boxelder – Member
… what’s fundamentally wrong with Labour/Milliband?

He is Not a PM material but instead he is good at being an opposition leader so let’s keep it that way.

I like him to be in opposition but Not the PM just like the time Neil Kinnock was in opposition many years ago.

A good govt needs a strong opposition so I rather prefer him to be in opposition. In fact he does the job so well he is far better than Mr & Mrs Balls in opposition.

I can’t stand the Balls.

🙄

I said appears statesmanlike and prime ministerial. Doesn’t mean I like him nor vote for him.

If ever there were a thread that sums up the socialist republic of SingleTrackWorld, this is it.

But what I really want to do is actually attend the meeting & challenge all their policies & generally make him look stupid. Unfortunately I don’t have the working knowledge or the confidence to do this… So what can I read up on? so at least if I attempt to make him look a bit silly, I can know my facts…

I’d attend, whether you pipe up or not, it’s worth going to these things to see what the local mood and receptiveness to UKIP is actually like… You can then decide to contact your local Lab/Lib/Con/Green party (entirely up to you) and ask them to start challenging UKIP in your area if you think they might sway it…

TBH being an erudite, verbal jouster probably doesn’t get you too far with the a hall full of Kippers (wee bit of stereotyping)…
The odds of changing the entrenched social and political views of an entire room full of people simply by arguing with the one at the front is slim, you’d probably just get shouted down…

Never argue with an idiot. Onlookers may not be able to spot the difference.

Basically…

It’s an open meeting, go along and find out how they operate, and see how your neighbours generally respond and what questions they ask. Don’t rely on the internets to tell you how the wind is blowing in your neck of the woods…

Sonor – Member
At least Cameron appears statesmanlike and has it as a prime minister.
You’re not joking are you?

I guess he might have meant, statesmanlike as in engaging in rampant self-interest and cronyism: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2027708/Samantha-Camerons-father-nets-350-000-year-subsidised-wind-farm.html

FWIW, I find the attacks on UKIP from both staunch Lab and Con voters as disingenuous. There seem to be a good many, such as the OP, who have very, very little idea of what the party stands for, but are simply primed by media and peer pressure to want to launch fatuous attacks.

Criticise them for policies, fine, but shutting down debate by explicitly or implicitly playing the ‘racist’ card is, anti democratic and poor logic. Any party commanding the share of votes they now do deserves a place in politics.

It’s worth some people remembering that most of the mainstream media is effectively ‘owned’ or influence by either or both of the two main parties.

Hmm, left a bit confused at that Mail article, it seems to be outraged that a landowner should get money for renting his land to a commercial enterprise that runs wind farms?

He rents some of his land out to generate green energy.

I could do that.

I think part of the problem with UKIP (other than having no discernible knowledge of how to run a country) is the type of voter they attract..

No-one in their right mind wants those sorts of people to feel validated

Good article here, which touches on the subject of anti-immigration politics:
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2015/01/12/just-like-the-80s-only-different

David McWilliam
European industry has taken the brunt of the competitive pain associated with the emergence of China. It is the average blue-collar worker who has suffered because he is in the direct line of fire. His job is on the line.

In contrast, the protected professional middle classes have benefited from China, because they get cheaper smartphones without their jobs or wages being threatened by workers in Shenzhen.

Now consider what happens when all this undermining of the average local worker happens at the same time as mass immigration.

Immigration affects different parts of society differently. For wealthy people, immigration means cheaper workers. Immigration is a win-win option for the rich. In contrast, for poorer people, immigration means direct competition for jobs, for houses, for welfare, for schools, for hospitals, for transport and ultimately for a stake in their society.

So it is not surprising that, all over Europe, we hear representatives of big business argue for more immigration. It makes sense for them to do so: they get cheaper workers.

When the local white population try to argue that they are getting squeezed by immigrants or their kids can’t get work because the immigrants are getting the jobs because immigrants are prepared to work longer hours, they are slapped down and labelled racist.

But what if the local white people are just trying to protect their own interest? Isn’t that what everyone does?

Sometimes, the people who attack the poorer white indigenous population for being racists are protected behind some university department or other (paid for by the taxes of the working poor) and have access to radio producers or editorial pages in the media.

yunki – Member

I think part of the problem with UKIP (other than having no discernible knowledge of how to run a country) is the type of voter they attract..

No-one in their right mind wants those sorts of people to feel validated

Really? 😯

You mean they attract working class people?

Do you think you are better than them because you perceived yourself as more “intelligent” or do you think you have better qualification(s) than the normal working class people? Or perhaps you think everyone should think like you?

Do you feel like an elitist? Do you?

🙄

heh.. you are so far removed from the truth there sunshine you don’t even know 😆

I just don’t like bigots mate.. and UKIP will attract them and make them feel validated and that thought scares me

yunki – Member

heh.. you are so far removed from the truth there sunshine you don’t even know

Truth? 😆

Politics, ideology, power and truth all together?

I am afraid you have a lot to learn sonny.

I just don’t like bigots mate.. and UKIP will attract them and make them feel validated and that thought scares me

You are acting / speaking exactly like a bigot yourself when you made such reference.

It takes one bigot to understand another bigot. You are on the different side of the same coin. 🙄

ok chief, you got me 😀

I don’t follow the logic there chewkw, only a bigot can spot a bigot? It doesn’t make sense.

One thing you can safely say about UKIP is that they have attracted the disenfranchised BNP voters and the extremely right-wing tories. The ex-bnp voters may well be working class but to despise them for their racism does not indicate a hatred of the working class, I’d hardly say they are representative.

One thing people seem to forget is that the bnp in the early-90’s were openly fascist with a lot of neo-nazis in their ranks.
If you don’t think ukip have have any dodgy old fash amongst them you’ need took deeper, they are there.

As a party they latch onto popularist myths and accentuate them to propel their own popularity. One thing is for certain they will privatise everything and make a stash of cash for themselves and their mates. So not too far removed from the tories really.

cobblers161 – Member

I don’t follow the logic there chewkw, only a bigot can spot a bigot? It doesn’t make sense.

Well very simple. Until you have a debate with them (UKIP or working class people) etc how do you know they attract/are bigots? Is it not the case that bigots are generally intolerance towards other ideologies without due investigation? Or do you think a quick generalisation of others is enough?

One thing you can safely say about UKIP is that they have attracted the disenfranchised BNP voters and the extremely right-wing tories. The ex-bnp voters may well be working class but to despise them for their racism does not indicate a hatred of the working class, I’d hardly say they are representative.

That is a generalisation similar to me calling Labour being bunch of communists in disguise. A bit like me calling my grandpa (my grandma told me my grandpa gave her spyhilis) syphilis infected communist.

One thing people seem to forget is that the bnp in the early-90’s were openly fascist with a lot of neo-nazis in their ranks.

You have weird people in every society but they are just the minority so long as they keep to themselves and I am sure society knows how to keep them in check. Yes, they may be intimidating when they are in a pack mentality but do you really think they will form a govt? Put it this way, if they can form a govt or get into power then there is something very seriously wrong with the major parties/ideologies. In this case you deserve to have them because the major parties/ideologies are so detached from ordinary folks they have no alternative but to have the cull.

If you don’t think ukip have have any dodgy old fash amongst them you’ need took deeper, they are there.

People change their minds or switch sides all the time and if we can apply scientific probability there is a high chance some of them are now in the left as well, vice versa.

As a party they latch onto popularist myths and accentuate them to propel their own popularity. One thing is for certain they will privatise everything and make a stash of cash for themselves and their mates. So not too far removed from the tories really.

The question you need to ask yourself is this.
Who give them the opportunity to become so popular? The answer is simple Labour, Lib Dem and Tories or the major parties.

There are many ways to make stash of cash for politicians regardless of political affiliation. Majority are in for the prospect of cash directly or indirectly at the public expense. Even after they have retired from politics they still earn more than ordinary folks.

There is nothing wrong with Tories privatisation and there is nothing wrong with Labour public spending.

The problem is they all get out of hand too soon too quickly … they are all at it.

Good thing is that the British politics have the tendency to “correct” herself by switching from one side to the other every 3 to 4 terms.

😀

It doesn’t make sense.

what chewkw posts do?

Don’t see the problem, give my the immigration policies of ukip, transport policy of the greens, business accumen of the tories and the labours ability to fiddle an election you’ll have a winning party.

The business acumen of the Tories?! Seriously…

Anyway on topic. This is the saddest thread I’ve seen in a while. In the last 2-3 years ukip have gone from a rightwing joke to the mainstream.

Being racist, sexist, homophobic is now a ligimate point of view we have to entertain in a plural society? Really? **** that.

They hate cyclists too you know.

Criticise them for policies, fine, but shutting down debate by explicitly or implicitly playing the ‘racist’ card is, anti democratic and poor logic. Any party commanding the share of votes they now do deserves a place in politics.

Also the hypocrisy of a party who are against immigration, but who’s leader has an immigrant for a wife.

Who want to withdraw the jurisdiction of the European court of human rights

They might be a bunch of **** (Tories) but their more capable than the others at making money.

Anyway point being voting for parties is irrelevant in today’s world, it’s quite possible to vote by policies.

PrinceJohn – Member
Also the hypocrisy of a party who are against immigration, but who’s leader has an immigrant for a wife.

Who want to withdraw the jurisdiction of the European court of human rights

There are immigrants (he married his wife so I see no problem there if he married someone legally) and there are “immigrants” that nobody wants like those clandestine jumping onto lorries … notice majority of them are young healthy men.

I want to withdraw from EU court of human rights. I certainly do not need another bunch of bureaucrats sitting on their high chairs dictating their views because we already have many of them within UK. 🙄