UK Election!

if Rees-Mogg does lose his seat, he’ll almost certainly end up in the House of Lords

Yeah but Labour will do the decent thing and using their huge majority they will abolish the House of Lords.

Won’t they?

What’s so galling about Loathsome and Gove and May et al all standing down is that all the fockers who gave us Brexit and failed to make a success of it are just walking away scot free and letting everyone else tidy up the mess. No brexiteers left are there?

I think that even the Conservatives have realised that rabidly Brexiteer candidates are unlikely to be vote winners:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

No brexiteers left are there?

Which might just allow the next administration to do the decent & right thing and start to try and repair the damage Brexit has done one small bit at a time.

It’s going to take time though.

The thing that really pisses me off is that if Rees-Mogg does lose his seat, he’ll almost certainly end up in the House of Lords (I could be wrong, I hope, as he’s not a Sunak supporter)

Mogg is just one figure. Having him lounging about somewhere in parliament is probably preferable to him dedicating all of his time to Dickensian villainy.

@ernielynch it’ll be interesting to see won’t it?

@ernielynch All these conservative centrists who oppose a manifesto for change but would like progressives like me to believe policies for change will emerge post-election seem to want me to believe abolishing/reforming the Lords is exactly the sort of thing Labour could do after winning.

I think Starmer said abolishing it would be a second term thing.  Personally, I think having a second chamber is a good thing, just not the one we have now.

Get rid of life peers,  get the bishops out, and massively reduce the size….and change the rules about people ending up their cos they bunged a load of money to a party.

Got the first election propaganda through the letterbox today. Came from the local conservative candidate, but nowhere does it mention that she is conservative. It was only when I looked at the small print on the back, was the word conservative visible. Even Tories don’t want to be Tories it seems 😁

I see you @garage-dweller. I am now in the same (not small) boat. I have been shuffled from 1 constituency to another for just about every election.

Labour canvassers today –  claiming to be anti brexshit and “wait until we get in”. Aye right.

Labour canvassers today –  claiming to be anti brexshit and “wait until we get in”. Aye right.

In the local elections my Labour county councillor didn’t disagree with me on my doorstep and called it a “stupid thing to say” multiple times when I said I wasn’t sure I could vote Labour after Starmer’s comments on LBC in October. Your canvassers are probably just in denial themselves.

The poll posted above states 55% currently believe it was wrong for the UK to leave the EU. I can only see that increasing, especially if 16 & 17 year olds are allowed to vote in 2029 which will increase the electorate by 1.5 million.

Once the Tories are out of government I suspect rejoin will become an increasingly important topic and will be a 2029 election subject. The only party I see putting it on the table, who have a chance of government, are Labour now pro-brexit Corbyn has gone.

Right now though I suspect Labour see it as too risky despite current polling that 74% of people intending to vote labour stating they would also vote to rejoin. I cant see labour ignoring that past this election.

@Twodogs Problem is that if they don’t get the constitutional reform stuff (which would also include proper devolution to the regions) out of the way in the first term, they won’t do it at all.

IMO the upper chamber should be e.g. 180 people elected on a regional party list system with 1/3 up every two years, and a limit of two six year terms.

WRT Brexit the only way the Europeans are going to let us back in is if there’s a large majority in support and a broad cross-party consensus. Sadly, I don’t think we’re quite there yet.

IMO the upper chamber should be e.g. 180 people elected on a regional party list system with 1/3 up every two years, and a limit of two six year terms.

I’m with you on it being elected, but any party list would I think would hand parties far too much power. The last thing we should want is a more partisan upper house when we can see every day the results of the party dregs floated into the Commons in safe seats.

Yeah but Labour will do the decent thing and using their huge majority they will abolish the House of Lords.

Yep, start off by doing that.  And then put in a maximum voting age of 60 which there will be no HOL to stop going through, bring in minimum age of 16 and therefore pretty much ensuring that we never have to see the Tories again.

Yes sadly even if there is a mandate it will take a decade for the UK to rejoin.

@zomg On the other hand, even if we don’t have PR for the Commons, no party is likely to have an absolute majority in a proportionally elected upper house?

The Lords have done their best to knock back a lot of the loony legislation recently. I think reform should be gradual, I’d kick the bishops our today, hereditary peerages would disappear when the current holder dies. There would be minimum attendance and anyone not meeting it without good reason would be out. I’d also tighten up the criteria an have a properly independant body approve all appointments. I’m not sure a fully elected house is a good thing given the populations recent voting record.

Get rid of life peers,  get the bishops out, and massively reduce the size…

Do you mean get rid of the hereditary peers?

The thing I can’t see past is how do you appoint people fairly? If you say fixed terms, then what’s to stop the government of the day loading up with its supporters when terms expire? Or do we carry on with the current nonsense where there’s something like 850 Lords?

I’m not sure a fully elected house is a good thing given the populations recent voting record.

LOL! I love it! Democracy is a great idea as long as people vote correctly – spoken like a Tory!

Do you mean get rid of the hereditary peers?

Sorry, yes….you’re correct

I like the idea of an elected for life (provisos around criminal convictions etc maybe) upper house.
it would remove some of the short term-ism and the need to make popular decisions in order to get re-elected.  Sometimes the right decision isn’t popular or short term – climate issues for example.

You know Ernie you could actually engage in a proper debate rather than throwing insults around. It is pretty boring to be honest. If you think an elected second house is the way to go how do we avoid the tribal voting of the lower House because that really hasn’t worked so well recently and the Lords have at least delayed some of the stupidity dreamt up by the elected representatives. Perhaps you approve of the electorates decision to put the Tories in power and are happy with result?

For the record I’ll be voting Labour like I did in the last GE when Corbyn was Labour leader, but then I don’t have to justify my political choices to judgmental people.

@stumpyjon As above, I honestly think the answer is a proportionally elected chamber with longish terms electing a proportion at a time to smooth out any swings. Remember that the way the commons looks the way it does is an effect of FPTP; a proportionally elected chamber is unlikely to have an outright majority and should in theory lend itself to more consensus based politics, which would reduce the idiocy.

Maybe some form of PR would work. I’d make elected stints 10 years and have elections for 20% of the seats.we really don’t need another short term elected chamber. The upper house needs to act as a counter to the froth and populism of the lower house.

interesting article on reform of the upper house and keeping expertise, medical, scientific, engineering etc.

Once the Tories are out of government I suspect rejoin will become an increasingly important topic and will be a 2029 election subject. The only party I see putting it on the table, who have a chance of government, are Labour now pro-brexit Corbyn has gone.

Right now though I suspect Labour see it as too risky despite current polling that 74% of people intending to vote labour stating they would also vote to rejoin. I cant see labour ignoring that past this election.

Much as I’d love us to “un-brexit” tomorrow I think it has to be accepted that rejoining the EU will probably be as painful a process as leaving now and Labour have far more pressing challenges, it’s going to be another decade at least before any real steps are taken in that direction.

If we’re lucky Labour will get 2 terms to start unfucking the nation, everything else is on a much longer term wishlist and probably becomes SKS’s successor’s fight.

Rejoin isn’t the immediate goal.  Restoring the four freedoms and a transparent trade deal would be a good start – and allows Labour to “respect the Brexies” by not rejoining (while dividing the remnants of the Tory party into frothing ideologues and hated pragmatists).

You know Ernie you could actually engage in a proper debate rather than throwing insults around.

With someone who doesn’t like democracy because “the population” doesn’t vote correctly? Seriously?

I actually find your contempt for “the population” quite insulating. But there you are…..we all have our different points of view.

I actually find your contempt for “the population” quite insulating.

In a warm and fuzzy way? 😉

@stumpyjon As above, I honestly think the answer is a proportionally elected chamber with longish terms electing a proportion at a time to smooth out any swings. Remember that the way the commons looks the way it does is an effect of FPTP; a proportionally elected chamber is unlikely to have an outright majority and should in theory lend itself to more consensus based politics, which would reduce the idiocy.

PR should be a priority!

Doubtless the tories will gnash and wail , but with the expected labour majority it shouldn’t take too much statistical manipulation to show them and their followers that with it they would indeed have won more seats, and hence the world would  be a fairer place….

They’ll probably still get my vote because of tactical but the Libdems are really pushing me hard to laugh them off my doorstep. If they can’t proofread a leaflet, what else can’t they be trusted on the detail of ;-)

his ability to navigate politics and get stuff done is legendary.

Combine his policies that were so damaging, with his ability to get them pushed through=probably the most damage done to society since Thatcher. I genuinely view him as on a par with her in terms of the damage that he’s done to this country.

Someone else who agrees with you:

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/michael-gove-tories-leaves-significant-political-legacy-3074728

The present Tory unpopularity is a once in a lifetime opportunity for real change.  I’m still not convinced labour aren’t about to **** it up!

In a warm and fuzzy way? 😉

Exactly like that!

The present Tory unpopularity is a once in a lifetime opportunity for real change.

Once in 200 years!

Support for the Tory Party has never fallen below 30% in any general election in the last 200 years.

Every single opinion poll since the beginning of October last year has support for the Tories at less than 30%.

We are now only six weeks away from the general election. I will not be in the slightest bit surprised if the Tories don’t hit 30%, especially considering how badly things have kicked off.

A sensible 2nd chamber idea could involve turning House of Commons into an English parliament, with HoL becoming an elected UK upper chamber  for reviewing legislation from all 4 UK lower chambers within a federated UK.

No bishops or washed up old politicos or dodgy business folk need to be appointed

@theotherjonv Help the hard of thinking – what’s the typo?