[Closed] Travellers - Why not make them clear up thier own mess ?

If you've never had any dealings with them, I can assure you you'd rather take the cleaning up than the threats of violence

Because they were probably scum, and therefore get special treatment

notes:
1) This post refers to 'travelers', not people from Romania
2) The word probably

Same everywhere - they turn up, park where they like and move when they like leaving the mess for others to clear up.

Seems to be a fear factor when it comes to these people?

btw - how do these people earn a living? Or do they steal the fancy caravans and Range Rovers?

They are vermin with no thought for anyone but themselves.

If you've never had any dealings with them, I can assure you you'd rather take the cleaning up than the threats of violence

Fair comment. My Dad use to have to move them on when he was the district Environmental Health officer, many many moons ago.

However, its not the general public who move them on. Its the authorities. In this case the local bobby worked hard to get them shifted. So send a few coppers to the gate into the field and dont let them leave until the clear away all the shite that they brought with them.

So send a few coppers to the gate into the field and dont let them leave until the clear away all the shite that they brought with them.

If you can manage to do that, which I doubt, you'll find it later down the road in a layby, up a lane, or in some beauty spot. It doesn't work.

I used to work in a quarry that also operated a tip and used to see a few of them there. We were only allowed to take inert waste (Stuff that doesn't rot or have chemicals in it, like tarmac or garden waste for instance) One day I refused a tip of a load that was clearly concrete slabs carefully arranged over a good quantity of tarmac. Later that day it was dumped just up the road (Just off the A404 between the junction and Marlow, if you know it)
That's how they operate.

I had a good chat with a guy who was clearing up the mess left by the 'travellers' who had been camped at the foot of Lee Quarry a few weeks back. He was not a happy bunny. They had stripped the wire out of the lights, nicked the drain covers, manhole covers etc, as well as leaving tons of rubbish including human faeces all over the place.

It may even be the same group who have then moved on to this site. Not really sure what the answer is though.

They are vermin with no thought for anyone but themselves.

Like quite a lot of people in [s]STW[/s] this country then 😉

Still i agree though, they should be clearing up there mess. Can't see it happening unfortunatly for the reasons stated above.

there's a load of them right now outside my place of work. they're all on the car park at Forest Bank Prison (I work next door). They seem to be very interested in our goods inward door, less interested in the piles of poo they're no doubt going to leave behind.

This morning one of the womenfolk emerged from her caravan wearing pj's, toothbrush sticking out of her gob. She walked over to the grass verge at the side of the car park AND HAD A CRAP.

come on, the rules clearly state that this thread must go up after 9am [b]ON THE FIRST OF THE MONTH[/b]

you're early

I really cannot see this thread still being here when I look for it again tonight;but hey-ho.

Lowey, this is the lot that got kicked off Moss Bank Park innit? Didn't get far ... the dirty ****ers.

The very same mate, and you should have seen the mess they made there.

Boils my piss to be honest. Why the **** do we have to foot the bill for tidying up after the dirty sods.

Terra... bet that put you off your porridge, but it did make me laugh.

our admin office, inhabited by several ladies, overlooks the poo site.

[img] [/img]

Someone will be along shortly to ask why you don't appreciate their chosen style of life and why you wish to be rid of it just because their chosen beliefs and values are different to yours. Or to claim you're a racist. Or to claim that just because a large percentage of the travellers at the site are messy and leave the place in a tip, you can't judge all of the travellers on that site by the same standards and so are generalising etc etc.

There was a site occupied by travellers where I take my dog.
A couple of kids warned me not to go in the woods nearby.
Reasons being -
1. They'll shoot me
2. They will set their dogs on mine

Pretty funny I thought. He also said they were "much richer than us".

As I wasn't bothered the kids followed me and my son into said woods and he was pretty spooked, I can tell you.
I did tell him that they were ok and the only problem was the mess they left behind.
Seemed friendly enough when I rode past the site.
Me and my dog got away unscathed 🙂

Someone will be along shortly to ask why you don't appreciate their chosen style of life and why you wish to be rid of it just because their chosen beliefs and values are different to yours. Or to claim you're a racist. Or to claim that just because a large percentage of the travellers at the site are messy and leave the place in a tip, you can't judge all of the travellers on that site by the same standards and so are generalising etc etc.

I'm suprised its taken this long!!

You've clearly not met the Snatch types have you? Not sure I'd be putting my kid at that sort of risk.

I remember a documentary fronted by that caramel-skinned, white-haired ex Labour/UKIP MP and talk show host who's name I can't remember at the moment; where said host was invited into one of the caravans on a "traveller's" sight after complaints about exterior rubbish to be shown, proudly, the spotless interior of the caravan...

😆

[i]Me and my dog got away unscathed[/i]
Oh, yeah and my son!

tails, prepare for a ban - someone will have spotted that and gone all mary whitehouse on us

Someone will be along shortly

I dont really care how they choose to live their lives, just make them tidy up after themselves.

I cant believe that society lets them get away with it. I mean, if me and my mates came and pitched tents on the local school playing field and then pissed off leaving turds and such like, all hell would be brought down on us.

I would honestly have them eradicated,

Wasn't there a chap who tried this once?

I cant believe that society lets them get away with it. I mean, if me and my mates came and pitched tents on the local school playing field and then pissed off leaving turds and such like, all hell would be brought down on us.

I think lowey has put my view in a far better way, if they acted normally and lived in caravans then okay, but when people have to remove floorboards from their staircase, drain their petrol tank every night then (Tony Martin) then something should be done.

I live relatively close to a large camp (Smithy Fen) they are so much trouble that when the police are called they send armed police with machine guns!!

TANNOY -

"TJ to the forum please"

😉

I live relatively close to a large camp (Smithy Fen) they are so much trouble that when the police are called they send armed police with machine guns!!

Indeed it was my understanding that ones local to my old place were not visited by police unless accompanied by a large group of armed officers.

'Live and let live' I say.
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IGMC

I live relatively close to a large camp (Smithy Fen) they are so much trouble that when the police are called they send armed police with machine guns!!

TBH they sound like the people engaged in illegal hare coursing. My mate was a fireman and they were responding to a 999 for a RTA in a remote spot outside Mildenhall. Half way there, on a small-ish road they were hemmed (front and back) in by thugs with shot guns and pistols. They didn't care that they were responding to a 999 call and one of them got in the cab to ensure no one was using the radio to alert the police. The fire engine was "allowed to go" when the coursing was finished.

No idea what happened to the RTA. The local police said they couldn't have responded effectively as they didn't have any ARUs at the time.

did my dissertation a few years back on gypsies and land use......didnt manage to get any interviews, was 'escorted' off a couple of official sites by them and realised why folk hate them, myself included. Scum

There have been some on a local managed beauty spot nearby, the mess is/was terrible they've dumped tons of half used paint tins and pushed a caravan into the lake?
Worst of all was the kids launching stones with tennis raquets into a nearby car showroom.
Totally untouchable.

Worst of all was the kids launching stones with tennis raquets into a nearby car showroom

now you see I quite like that 😀

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Coyote - Member
They are vermin with no thought for anyone but themselves.

No different to a lot of people then!

In the last 2 months there has been 5 dogs that have been stolen. 3 from gardens and another 2 from a place where everyone walks their dog. They stole a friends dog from his farm, which they found 3 months later and had to be put down, as they didn't care for it.

3 units on the industrial estate have been broken into and a couple of others have had them walk in and out with stuff. They broke into a courier down the road and setup camp! The police wouldn't do anything, but they soon got annoyed of the 24 hour deliveries and every truck honking their horn as they went past. Still cost the company £1000's to fix the fence, gates and clean up.

That's just in the last few months, and its not that bad this year! And they want to build 3 sites around this area, all of which have been declined... Thank God!

Now the fairground people are a different kettle of fish! Haven't had any problems with them, are friendly and clear up when they leave.

Very binary this discussion isn't it?

My cards on the table... I have never met any travellers and all my experiences of them have been vicarious so my opinions count for nothing.

Maybe all they are saying is "we don't want to be part of your society". If you want to exist outside any given society then clearly society's rules do not apply. Is it up to us to tolerate their behaviour or try and modify it so it fits with our ideals? Or is there another solution?

As Malcolm Bradbury said " I don't have an answer, all I have is the question."

Fair point slowjo, but then is it a bridge too far to say rules not applying might be a two way street if you are correct?

.... 4,

your all racist nazi`s and i claim my 5 pound,(except slowjo and tj) 😆

If you want to exist outside any given society then clearly society's rules do not apply.

Far as I'm aware, English Law is fairly immutable. You can't pick and choose which ones you want to observe.

There is a "traveller's" camp just outside Leatherhead on the Cobham road (Surrey). It's absolutely spotlessly clean and neat in the camp and outside of it. No problems there whatsoever. By contrast, the other of which I have some "riding past on a bike" experience, off the A3 between Claygate and Long Ditton, dump all their rubbish on the verge of the road outside, converting a nice country lane (rare in that area) into a disgusting rubbish tip.

Apparently there are two cultures at work here - "Romany" and "Irish" gypsies.

The "Romanies" are the ones with an aversion to anti-social behaviour and the spreading of crap and rubbish, or so I have read.

All I know is they must all be related as they all have the same bloody surname "Smith"...

Cougar.. absolutely, but if you do not recognise the validity of someone else's rules then you won't care what that society thinks except maybe, when they are applied to you i.e. you are punished for transgressing. Take for e.g. if you were sent to work in a fundamentalist country where you were required to beat your dog every other Thursday, would you? I guess you would choose not to but when the religious police came around and chopped off your hand for not beating said dog, then you'd care. Silly analogy really but the best I can come up with.

By preventing the enforcers of our laws (the police) from operating effectively they are sticking the proverbial two fingers up at us. I don't agree with it but it seems, from the posts on here, that that is what's happening.

So, I am not an apologist for anyone who ignores/breaks the laws we choose to live by, it just seems that that is what is happening.

They moved onto Hackney Marshes a few years back and left because it was too rough for them
Local kids tried to set their gas bottles alight, chucked stuff at them off the tower blocks (surprising the velocity stuff like spuds can reach from the 18th floor)and nicked a couple of their untaxed 4wd motors

They then tried to do their usual taking over the pub trick, shame it was the local Jamaicans hang out, lots of BMW's with tinted windows arrived and they were asked to vacate the premises

Still left loads of shit laying about, but didn't stay too long

Can't believe the amount of crap that accumulates around the local illegal site either. Almost had a 20mph off yesterday avoiding some sort of two wheel trailer dumped on a blind bend of my favourite singletrack. Tried to move it , too heavy sowill have to call the council about it 🙁 I can't even figure out how they got it up there!

As I understand, this group were ejected from the local fixed site (which is spotless apparently) by the other travellers. In contrast, another illegal site about 10 miles away is very well looked after. I just think that people like this don't give a shit about themselves or anyone else, and that is reflected in their living standards.

Just for balance, I don't remove the rubbish or the effluence from my own place either. I have a binman and plumbing 🙂

Take for e.g. if you were sent to work in a fundamentalist country where you were required to beat your dog

The difference there is 'sent' rather than 'chose'. Now, if I chose to go and live in another country, I'd look at their cultural and legal requirements before deciding whether or not it was somewhere I wanted to live. I wouldn't move there then declare "Cougar Law", demand that it supercedes local laws under my right to observe the customs I'd just made up, and then basically do what the **** I liked and claim persecution and prejudice if anyone objected.

Mind you, if I go on holiday to a foreign country for a fortnight I make an effort to learn some of the local language, so maybe it's just me being a bloody freak.

I teach a few gypsy kids, they are very hard work and pretty rough round the edges but are likeable and honest.

My mum looked after a gypsy when she was a MacMillan nurse and they were very hospitable to her although she did get a bit daily mail reader when she went to the funeral and the guy's caravan was burnt leaving the wife homeless. When she asked her what she would do she was told not to worry as the social wold get her a new one.

They do leave a lot of shit lying about though and having a lurcher I know a few people who's dogs have gone missing when they were about.

bit hypocritical really, the average 'decent' person produces tons of shite and waste but it's nicely taken away by a lorry and buried in the ground so it pollutes the land and water for everyone for years or alternatively burnt in an incinerator (not near their house) that increases childhood cancer by a few percent. suppose these daily mail readers also have cars and take planes and have don't mind that their consumerist lifestyle pollutes the **** out of uk & other counties. but dont leave a piss-stained mattress by the side of the road or you're filthy scum...

Cycling down a nice quiet road near Castley (near Pool-in-Wharfedale, north of Leeds), I knew there was an illegal camp at the side of the river, by the road. As I approached saw a bunch of kids messing about and a bunch of adults on deck chairs drinking. Anyway, as I drew level with the camp the kids threw a load of long chains into the road, holding the other end and started to flick them up. I came a cropper as the kids roared about laughing and the adults gave me steely-eyed 'looks'. So I got on my bike and got going.... new bar tape and ripped saddle thanks. Scum!

Its not just travellers that are messy twunts. They just stand out because they choose to live a different lifestyle than most. I posted earlier this week about taking my lad to the beach to discover the masses had descended on a beautiful weekend and left every pile of crap they brought with them.

I really dont get a lot of peoples attitude that somebody else will clean up after them. Im doing my best to teach my lad a bit of respect.

We do have something seriously wrong in this countries mentality. 😯

effing hell turnipforgeindustries, that is the most irrelevant rant I've seen!
Do you not produce waste? Never fly or drive anywhere? I bet you do.
Does that make you a daily mail reader? And what has the mail got to do with it?

Clearly it's not travellers that are the real problem here, but littering. Even though the two seem to go together quite frequently.

Make littering an indictable offence, say with a minimum sentence of six months, and I think this country would be a much happier place.

backhander
yeah that was a bit of a lame troll post...
i was just thinking about the amount of waste we (including me) produce.

Good effort though buddy. And very true except the random daily mail bit (I think that's where you went overboard).

Difference is most of us pay taxes and council tax for the priveledge of having our waste removed

what do these folk pay

there was a camp on the skipton bypass a few years ago stayed for ages
then were finaly evicted and the council had to burn all the undergrowth
around the layby so they could get rid of all the debris and needles
was a very intimidating place to cycle past .

At least they could use these [url= http://www.firebox.com/product/2351/Shit-Box?itc=223&src_t=nwt&src_id=304&via=nlprod ]Shit Box[/url]

Been with my old man tonight. IN his old roll as Environmental Health inspector, it was generally his job to serve notice on the travellers and move them on.

He had some funny stories to tell, one of which was in the 50's some gypo's had sneaked up the rough track access to Pendlebury tip. After serving them with notice to move, Dad and his lads physically started to hook up the caravans and drag them off with bin wagons. Only problem was the 1st one they dragged off snapped clean in half on the access road !!

Another way he got them to shift pretty sharpish was get a 20t load of aggregate and tip it halfway accross the site access, he would then shout that the other load would be there in an hour and would block them in. They shifted within 30 mins.

He also said that the council rat catcher was a Romany. During a discussion with him about the travellers, he said its just like any society. We have our scum and they have their scum, ours just live in council estates, theirs travel the country making everywhere they go a shit hole.

its just like any society. We have our scum and they have their scum, ours just live in council estates, theirs travel the country making everywhere they go a shit hole.

For my money the issue is the same as it is with fly tippers, whom I also have a considerable distaste for. This issue is much like the helmet one, it crops up as regularly as clockwork, it polarises opinion, and creates heated arguments........ not to mention the fact that I'm right about this too!

Personally I'm happy for travellers to have precisely the same rights and repsonsibilities that I have. Only thing is that I would insist on both being applied in equal measure. Simple and fair IMHO 😉

If there's one thing that I've learned in my thirtymumble years on this Earth, it's that scumbags come in all shapes and colours.

so it pollutes the land and water for everyone for years or alternatively burnt in an incinerator (not near their house) that increases childhood cancer by a few percent.

WTF?

Do you have any figures to back that up at all?

Firstly, landfill is very tightly controlled, there is no way* that a modern landfill site could polute the surrounding ground or water.

Secondly, much like car's, the air coming out the top of an incinerator is often cleaner than the air going in. A lot of crap was posted when the Sheffield one was built showing high levels of this and that in the surrounding area, no one at 'Friends' of the Earth bothered to point out in their pamphlets that the concentrations were just the same as before and were th ereult of 101 small less well regulated businesses in the area.

*baring some kind of accident, and theres enough kit in place to at least be able to detect a leak and fix it.

Cougar ... and sizes, don't forget sizes or you'll be labelled as a size-ist!

I quite fancy being a traveler, having lived in my van all week staying where I choose, riding some great trails etc. Only got moved on once... A car load of big lads arrived at speed and came stomping over, only to turn all polite when they realised that the tatty old van was a VW transporter packed up with a bike and a surf board and a quiet little me, eating my thai stir-fry and drinking red wine from a proper glass. Maybe I'm too middle class to be a proper traveler, but I once met a guy in the Lakes who lived in a caravan on a remote hill, his arguement was that he could never afford a house somewhere as beautiful and he didn't really fit in with normal society, so he lived up there, growing his own veg etc, painting and doing odd jobs on the local farm for a bit of cash. Good life really. not bothering anyone and he seemed happy enough.

What I can't understand is why they always set up camp in grotty places? I'd be inclined to only stay in nice places, not a bit of wasteland by the side of an industrial estate!

As for the waste issue, perhaps treating them like regular citizens, providing a big bin, settin up a stand pipe for fresh water etc. I appreciate that they don't pay council tax etc but surely it would be cheaper to treat them nicely than try an move them on every time and tidy up after them?

What I can't understand is why they always set up camp in grotty places

Presumably the nicer an area is, the more likely they are to get promptly moved on.

A car load of big lads arrived at speed and came stomping over, only to turn all polite when they realised that the tatty old van was a VW transporter packed up with a bike and a surf board

I like this. The idea of you sat there all civilised; red wine (in a glass), classical music playing, smoking jacket with cravat.

I hate them, the crime rate in my area goes through the roof when they rock up, same goes for the fairground gypo's. I honestly can't think of anyone I know who hasn't had a bad episode with them.

Only way to get rid of them is shoot their scabby ponies as they seem to care more for them than their own kids, assuming the kids are theirs.

Last year they moved into my area and nicked the road drainage grates on over 5 miles of country lanes. They were nicked red handed and go off with it some how (probably with legal aid at my expense). There were two reported serious bike injuries from it as well.

Let them go roam around the north of scotland in mid winter (no offence to the scots guys out there)

I prefer radio 4 TBH, but yeah, the whole grate robbing thing grates with me, having suffered a broken wrist, nose and severe damage to face hitting an un grated hole.

Secondly, much like car's, the air coming out the top of an incinerator is often cleaner than the air going in

Equality for all thats my motto!

What I can't understand is why they always set up camp in grotty places? I'd be inclined to only stay in nice places, not a bit of wasteland by the side of an industrial estate!

There's **** all to nick in a beauty spot.

 

The exhaust from a car is cleaner than the air entering it how exactly do people die inhaling these cleaner fumes?

It's carbon monoxide, but it's nice, clean carbon monoxide.

(-:

its the gay, muslim, irish, black travellers that I really hate.

the BNP would have sorted them right out, had anyone voted for them.

backhander - Member

A car load of big lads arrived at speed and came stomping over, only to turn all polite when they realised that the tatty old van was a VW transporter packed up with a bike and a surf board

I like this. The idea of you sat there all civilised; red wine (in a glass), classical music playing, smoking jacket with cravat.

I have this sudden image of Uncle Monty opening the door to his [i]piede a terre[/i] in "Withnail..."

"Eeow, HelllEEEOowwww..."

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-uk-enforced-ethnic-cleansing-of-gypsies-and-travellers.htmlStop ]petition[/url]

From the petition..................

Until suitable, appropriate and affordable sites are provided for Gypsies and Travellers, there will continue to be a cycle of unauthorised encampments, causing disruption and cost to both the settled and Travelling communities.

Now if I was wording that petition, the last thing that I'd want to do is to make it in any way threatening or confrontational.

FAIL.

[url= http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/1756547 ]Aberdeen City Council empty the bins for them every week[/url] Whilst I as a council tax payer have fortnightly collection.

how is that confonfrontational it just states what is actually happening and says it will continue unless something happens to change this pattern?

It's confrontational because it says give us what we want or there will be disruption to peoples lives. Nice.