Trail Etiquette

The person going up would only have to pull over or stop for a couple of seconds to let the descender past. Hardly an inconvenience.

For the descender to decelerate, pick a spot to stop, stop and wait for the slower climber to pass then accelerate back up to speed is going to take significantly longer.

Does make me wonder whether some folk on STW ride uphill, and I mean ride as in put some effort in as opposed sitting and spinning. You do realise that when descending you have a friend in gravity that is actually the main problem for a climber? The assumption that a climber is going slower than a descender and therefore it must be easy to stop and re-start is baffling. You’re also assuming the climber can re-start in the same gear; if they now have to get into a lower gear to restart its going to be difficult as you need to be moving where as more than likely the descender will be able to resume in the same gear and, if they can’t, at least they’ll be moving so can change gear. Also have you ever tried to start riding again from stopped on a steep climb? Its a mare even if you’re in the right gear: the bikes unstable until you get some speed up, the front is wandering all over the shop but you’re trying to balance weight to the back to maintain traction

I did also state in one of my previous posts that for the vast majority of the time its unlikely the descender will have to completely stop anyway.

Actually, it isn’t. Stand at the bottom of a trail, looking up. You can’t see the surface or, often, the twists and turns. Stand at the top looking down and you’ll usually see the whole trail.

What’s more, the climber will be focussing on a point not very far away from the front wheel. The descender will be looking much further out and will, therefore, usually be the first to spot the other rider.

Of course those climbers if they get so much joy out of climbing, they could always go back down and start again in the right gear if they can’t restart uphill by contouring a bit.

Contrast that with having a line t’d up into a berm (mine are imaginary and usually just root growths) spoiled by breast distraction, then some loping great hound laying clean across the trail.

I’m so patient with her, I wonder if she even realises..

if they can’t restart uphill by contouring a bit.

If the path was wide enough for contouring, we wouldn’t be having the discussion as both climber and descender would be able to pass each other without stopping/slowing down 😐

dereknightrider –

Contrast that with having a line spoiled by breast distraction,

Pictures, Derek – we need pictures 😯

The right of way should be given to the one climbing IMO.
There’s nothing more infuriating than being forced to put a foot down on a tricky climb and failing to clean it. There’s often less of a doable line going up technical stuff too and to deviate from it would be the end of your attempt. It’s much easier to change your line or trackstand going downhill to allow someone past going the other way.

I’d usually give way to anyone/anything heading up assuming they’re not already making to do so*, I’d do it with red socked ramblers so why not other bikers (Exception being when they’re pushing a bike, because obviously they’ve already yielded in that case) The basis for my decision is in line with most of the above.

If it’s easy to stop and restart going up the hill is not really worth getting excited about riding down.

If it’s worth getting excited about on the way down its hard work going up, and in my personal experience is much more satisfying as a hard climb I cleaned than a mediocre down hill.

If it’s awesome going down/hard to stop and restart going I won’t be riding up it any how.

*often people do stop and get out of the way, with cheery “looks like fun”/rather you than me” type comments

OK so assume both parties are enjoying themselves equally (which on balance won’t be the case, but just for argument), and just take it out of the picture… It’s still easier and less disruptive and quicker for the person going up to yield.

Agreed that all have the right to enjoy all of the ride. But there’s a responsibility to bring speeds of passing trail users down to a reasonable level and that means the downhill rider slowing up most, or at least until there’s clear passing lines and space. I’d be moving aside pretty obviously most of the time not to hold you up, may even call you a triathlete and to get a move on : ) but I’d not assume that every rider would do that or begrudge having to slow down when it’s other way round.

nuke – Member
if they can’t restart uphill by contouring a bit.
If the path was wide enough for contouring, we wouldn’t be having the discussion as both climber and descender would be able to pass each other without stopping/slowing down

Which was kind of my reasoning for them having to back track a bit.. This obviously aimed at sweaty lycra SPD lockins who really have no place on a nice bit of downhill going up, not that, that is relevant to my predicament where in Goddess world lycra is totally permitted and if there is just a hint of breast heave, even better…

Most of our local trails have a dominant direction, which is usually downhill. The fireroads are the main way of regaining altitude, so fortunately uphill riders usually give way to the downhill riders on the singletrack

A lot of the time we MTBers are not going hugely fast (compared to how fast we can stop) and if you’re riding properly and looking ahead you should be able to see if the oncoming rider is on a bit of a mission, be it up or down hill and then decide whether to get out of their way or not.

I’ll have a stab in the dark and guess the majority of those those who are in favour of the downhill rider giving way are probably lycra wearing roadies.

I enjoy a technical climb, but am I going to spoil the fun of someone coming down the trail? No chance.

Oh the horror of having to put a foot down on a climb, because someone is flying down the trail. Really spoils my day 😆

Generally I think a bit of common sense is used in most cases, with the proviso that going downhill is more fun than uphill.

Prefer riding uphill to downhill? You shall be smited by the MTB gods 😈

The assumption that a climber is going slower than a descender and therefore it must be easy to stop and re-start is baffling.

Perhaps this is the route of our different opinions nuke. You think people ride uphill quicker than they ride down.

^ 🙄

I’ll have a stab in the dark and guess the majority of those those who are in favour of the downhill rider giving way are probably lycra wearing roadies.

Completely wrong for me as it is all about the downs but I respect the fact that stopping and restarting when climbing is far harder and so I will always yield to the climber, they’re fighting gravity, I am not: if that means it interupts my run then so be, just bad luck and I’ll ride it again another day

I’ll have a stab in the dark and guess the majority of those those who are in favour of the downhill rider giving way are probably lycra wearing roadies.

Not even slightly – In fact it’s this attitude that I find so irksome. Just because I enjoy the challenge of a difficult climb doesn’t mean I won’t absolutely destroy your time on the way down*. People who ride a lot and who are pretty handy on the downhills usually have the fitness for the ups as well. Contrast the fat middle-aged weekend warrior on a big full sus, probably wearing armour who bimbles up at his own slow rate and thinks he’s ‘gnarpooning’ on the way down to a mid-table strava time.

*I don’t mean this as a willy-waving exercise, I’m just pointing out that your assumptions are waaaay wrong.

I’ll have a stab in the dark and guess the majority of those those who are in favour of the downhill rider giving way are probably lycra wearing roadies.

Or just riders that treats all trail users the same. I slow down to go past people when I’m going downhill. Not often to a standstill, but to roll past with space rather than nailing it. Seems rude not too. Kids on bikes, dog walkers, some bloke on a nice bike who may be a grumpy old schooler a bit like me or may have bought a bike a month ago and have no idea of any assumed ROWs between riders. All the same.
And the point applies to natural, multi-use trails. Trail centre type stuff is a bit different. Only a Euro rides up the really good downhills.

personally I’m happy to stop on the way up, I’d rather have free flow on the downhill..

Me too. I ride up so I can ride down. Giving way to flow seems sensible to me.

It’s a simple safety thing as well… someone heading downhill as fast as they can will take a long longer to stop than someone going as fast as they can uphill given that speeds are likely to be 3-5 times faster downhill. Braking distances etc, remember driving test days.

Braking distances etc, remember driving test days.

…and yet on page 2 of this thread we had this quoted:

Highway code rule 155
Single-track roads. These are only wide enough for one vehicle. They may have special passing places. If you see a vehicle coming towards you, or the driver behind wants to overtake, pull into a passing place on your left, or wait opposite a passing place on your right. Give way to vehicles coming uphill whenever you can. If necessary, reverse until you reach a passing place to let the other vehicle pass. Slow down when passing pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders.

So writers of the Highway Code got it wrong and didn’t consider the safety aspect

Simple safety thing…what a load of codswallop. “Its your fault I hit you as my braking distance was further and you didn’t get out my way”

I’ll certainly bear that in mind while driving my car down the trails.

nuke – Member

No because they haven’t, thats just it: the little the climber has got is hard fought.

The speed the descender has is exactly as hard fought- they just earned it earlier, or maybe will pay it back later.

scotroutes – Member

Actually, it isn’t. Stand at the bottom of a trail, looking up. You can’t see the surface or, often, the twists and turns. Stand at the top looking down and you’ll usually see the whole trail.

Which is irrelevant, because as the slower moving climber, you don’t need to see that far forward, you’ll be stopping within the short distance which you can see with ease and with lots of time. Whereas descending, you’d be picking a spot much further away, and you’ve got more other things to think about in the meantime. It’s not about how far you can see, it’s about the bit you need to see.

Or put it another way- whoever stops, they’ll be doing it in the area closely in front of the climber, so obviously the climber can see that best- they’re already looking at it in fact.

I’ll certainly bear that in mind while driving my car down the trails.

Good, at least I’ve made some progress educating you 😛

The speed the descender has is exactly as hard fought- they just earned it earlier, or maybe will pay it back later.

Nope, descender has gravity to help them, climber is hindered by gravity…descender just has to let his brakes off and he’ll be moving again, if the climber did that, he’d be going backwards

It’s a simple safety thing as well… someone heading downhill as fast as they can will take a long longer to stop

and for that reason should be controlling their speed and riding within their limits and appropriately for the terrain.

If you’re going too fast to stop properly on anything other than a closed track where you know who or what is in front of you you’re going too fast*.

Anyone who tells you in the real world you should have got out of their way because they were unable to stop is a grade A [insert body part of choice].

*obviously dog/child/old dear leapt from the bush a few inches in front of me is a bit different but, in the context of someone pedaling up a hill that’s not going to be the case.

Completely wrong for me as it is all about the downs but I respect the fact that stopping and restarting when climbing is far harder and so I will always yield to the climber, they’re fighting gravity, I am not: if that means it interupts my run then so be, just bad luck and I’ll ride it again another day

My understanding is that it is harder to stop something rolling down a hill than to stop when pushing it up.

How long does it take me to move over when I see someone coming downhill? I turn the handlebars and stop pedalling. Easy. How hard is it to start again? I’m in an easy gear so I just start pedalling.

When I’m going downhill to stop from 15-20mph takes a lot longer.

As I mentioned above it is common sense for the most part, I won’t smash past a group of riders coming uphill at full speed as that is just rude. But I’m not about to pull over so someone can clear their technical climb without dabbing a foot 😆

What it comes down to is who is having the most fun. I enjoy a technical climb, but like the vast majority prefer riding downhill, so I give way to people coming down.

I don’t stop going uphill, if i have to bail its going to be a nice sideways topple at slow speed up gradient.

If you feel crashing over the edge and depositing yourself on your head is for you then I’m not going to stop you. It’ll be your own fault.

I’ll happily wait at the bottom or somewhere flat to let a descender do their thing uninterupted and will hold gates across paths open to allow through passage at speed.

What it comes down to is who is having the most fun. I enjoy a technical climb, but like the vast majority prefer riding downhill, so I give way to people coming down

^^This, its so obvious. After all where not traffic as such on the trails, just people out having fun. I know this topic comes up for discussion from time to time but in 20+ years of mtb’ing, this up down priority thing has never been a problem for me, people just sort themselves out naturally without needing Rules to obey. Maybe that’s just where I ride, yet to meet a “I’m going up get out of my way” rider.

So it gets down to this, Goddesses aside for one moment, hands up all those who whilst pumping uphill would want a downhiller to give way to them?

Not many according to what’s largely writ here..

So,, the general gist of it, the rule is wrong, uphill should give way to down, since for the most part we’d all freely do that.

You’re doing a remarkable job of ignoring everyone that disagrees with you. Perhaps you should suggest this as a poll for next weeks front page 😆

imagine if there were no one rule and you had to use a bit of grey matter. Slow riders not pulling over when there’s a gap on the other hand…

scotroutes – Member
dereknightrider » So it gets down to this, Goddesses aside for one moment, hands up all those who whilst pumping uphill would want a downhiller to give way to them?
Not many according to what’s largely writ here..
So,, the general gist of it, the rule is wrong, uphill should give way to down, since for the most part we’d all freely do that.

You’re doing a remarkable job of ignoring everyone that disagrees with you. Perhaps you should suggest this as a poll for next weeks front page
Is it really that ‘remarkable’ right now I’m giving way both directions, so guilt free, but the straw poll to me, reading this, seems to be a strong leaning towards what I suggested back there. With the exception of course by our lycra clad friends , so how do you stand?
Oh and do you spend long hours in front of a mirror studying your package as well as expecting downhillers to give way to you?

There’s some utter guff being spouted by the downhill priority crowd here.

Let me get this straight, you’re getting your kicks and thrills from managing to cycle down something somebody else is cycling up.

And you think the uphill rider should give way to you?

You must be some serious gnarrrrcore dudes.

Seriously

Uphill rider has the right of way. I won’t move for strava…

As Max Miller said “I didn’t know whether to block her passage or toss myself off”.

With the exception of course by our lycra clad friends

🙄

There is not a leaning to ‘uphill should give way to down’ on this thread

I get no particular pleasure out of downhills, but I can understand why some people do. If I want to go fast without personal input, I’ve got a motorbike and I know how to use it. 🙂

I don’t want to spoil someone else’s fun so I’ll always give way on a climb if the the track is narrow. But sometimes, stopping stuffs up the rest of the climb for me and it’s either back down to the bottom to try again, or a push to the top.

But what should be taken into consideration by the downhill heroes is that their momentum is capable of inflicting serious injury on a soft squishy human, and on general trails with public access there’s likely to be people obstructing the trail, possibly round that blind corner or after that jump.

It is plain irresponsible to ride flat out downhill on a shared 2 way trail unless you have totally clear sight lines. There are trail parks with one way trails for that sort of riding.

So if you are riding downhill on a shared 2 way trail your speed should be such that you can always stop safely, and you should be prepared to do just that.

Even if you don’t stop, it’s common decency to pass slowly on a narrow trail.

And as the OP has shown, there are sometimes delightful benefits… 🙂

Why don’t you cycle the loop in the same direction. Given her astonish athleticism and your decrepit state you should cycle a short distance behind to avoid stalling her with your inferior bike skills, while making like the Bisto kid.

onlysteel – Member
Why don’t you cycle the loop in the same direction….

The best advice in this thread… 🙂

onlysteel – Member
Why don’t you cycle the loop in the same direction. Given her astonish athleticism and your decrepit state you should cycle a short distance behind to avoid stalling her with your inferior bike skills, while making like the Bisto kid.

I do, but that’s the problem, only I know it’s a loop, to her it’s a dog walking pathway/area which her magnificence permits us to inhabit from time to time, in much the same vein as Maleficent and the moors.

Photo’s of said goddess or it’s not hapenin!

With regards right of way, if I’m going up hill I’ll, I’ll gladly give way, if I’m going downhill at a fair lick, I’ll tank it.

Bigger bug bear for me is trail side repairs where the group stop’s and spreads either side of the trail, pick a side and single file it, much better, but that’s a different thread.

Bigger bug bear for me is trail side repairs where the group stop’s and spreads either side of the trail, pick a side and single file it, much better, but that’s a different thread.

Much worse are the ones who don’t even take sides and rather sit in the middle of the trail or dump their bike in the middle to help their mate at the side, I’m always so tempted to just ride over it – Hmm that gives me an idea for a what tyres thread

Or the ones that stop to regroup in corners – there seems to be something about big berms in trail centres that makes a lot of people think that space is a passing place