Home Forums Bike Forum Towbar Rack – what’s the recommendation for 4 bikes

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  • Towbar Rack – what’s the recommendation for 4 bikes
  • sheeps
    Full Member

    We in the process of getting an estate car, after several years of van ownership (long story, including thieving wostits removing a Transit with no trace). It’ll have a detachable tow bar fitted (westfalia type).

    So… what’s the current thinking for a 4 bike carrier for a swan neck towball?

    notmyrealname
    Free Member

    The Thule Velocompact has been brilliant for me.

    It’s a three bike rack but you can fit an extra rail to take a fourth bike. They’re not cheap but they’re good quailty

    I bought mine on the Cycle to Work scheme which knocked the price down a good bit.

    matt_outandabout
    Free Member

    Thule Euro something here.
    Bought secondhand, it’s now 6 years in of twice weekly use, trips to France and more.
    I’ve worn out a couple of arm mechanisms, but being Thule you can buy replacements.
    Look on Gumtree or FB marketplace – they often come up for sale.

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    Make sure the car can take the weight of 4 bikes and the carrier.

    Someone I used to work with had a car with a 50kg limit on the tow bar, which put the 3 (cheap) bikes and the carrier very close to the limit.

    5lab
    Free Member

    Altera strada dl. Better tilt than a thule, if you might ever go back to a van

    wobbliscott
    Free Member

    Or take a look at the Buzzrack Quattro for something that works, is good value for money, has better functionality in terms of bike loading and unloading, but not as good tilting as the Thule or Altera. It’s heavier so might be ruled out due to weight limitations. I used it with my SMax that had an 80kg weight limit. The rack was 20kg’s so only left you with 60kg’s for bike weight. Fine for family bikes assuming lighter kids bikes, but if you want to carry 4 big MTB’s then you might struggle for weight limitation.

    natrix
    Free Member

    Think about what you want from a carrier. Do you want it to tilt? Do you want it to be light weight and easily stored or do you want it to be big and chunky? Do you want it to be fairly compact or give you lots of space between bikes? (Somebody on here was raving on about their rack, but said that they had to take the pedals off to get the bikes on – a bit of a problem if you use it frequently.) There’s quite a price range as well. Lots of people like their Thules but some of the fittings can melt if they are close to an exhaust pipe.

    roofbox.co.uk have a good selection……….

    Greybeard
    Free Member

    50kg limit on the tow bar

    Also bear in mind that the limit on the tow bar for bikes will be lower than the limit for trailer nose weight, because the weight on the rack is maybe 0.6m behind the towball so puts more leverage on the towbar. Focus Estate, for example, is rated 90kg on the towball but max 3 bikes.

    garage-dweller
    Full Member

    I agree with the leverage problem re nose weight. Has anyone got a reliable way to do the leverage calc?

    I estimated using distance from rear “axle” to tow ball * nose weight. To get a leverage figure for a point load (i.e. trailer)

    I then did

    total weight of the carrier + bikes * distance from rear axle to centre of carrier

    My assumptions being that

    1) it’s the leverage applied to the car body pivoting around the centre of the rear wheels (which for the above I’ve called the axle even though most fwd cars don’t have a physical axle there).

    2) the centre of mass of the carrier when loaded is in its middle (although in practice it is probably slightly nearer the tow ball end).

    When I did that for our Passat (sizing up roof bars Vs tow bar) for four bikes and 17kg of rack came in equivalent to a few kg inside the 90kg nose weight of the car. I ended up getting roof bars as it was well within on those and more transferable.

    Anyone know better/have a different view of how it should be done?

    Interesting about the Focus Estate being 90kg – the current Grand Tourneo Connect (which I understand is on a Focus platform) seems to be only 75kg and the petrol hatch we have is only 75kg too.

    5lab
    Free Member

    The altera 4th rail comes with some straps you’re meant to hook over the top of the boot hinge (ala a strap on rack) to help take the load when you’re carrying 4 bikes.

    Youd think someone could make a rack with a 5th castor wheel on it, so the side to side was still controlled by the car (so easy to steer etc) but the majority of the weight and the up down movement was held by the rack..

    Greybeard
    Free Member

    Anyone know better/have a different view of how it should be done?

    I would go with the manufacturer’s recommendation, if they have one. If not, I’d look at the leverage from the towbar fixings.

    Interesting about the Focus Estate being 90kg

    I’ll check that. I read it recently but couldn’t find the source when I posted.

    sheeps
    Full Member

    Thanks all…. I think the Skoda Superb has a 100kg nose weight, but as mentioned the cantilever will reduce that. With growing boys, it won’t be long before its 4 adult bikes!

    Going back to a van in unlikely…. for environmental reasons we’re going to be a 1 vehicle family, and my work needs a car.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    We have an Octavia estate, detachable towball and use an Atera Strada DL 3+1. It slides away from the boot for easy access. Easy to get on and off. Like all of them, takes practice to get pedals and bars aligned/twisted.

    Nose weight on the Octavia is 75kg. The rack is about 15kg. So that leaves us about 15kg per bike to play with. You know when there’s 4 back there!

    garage-dweller
    Full Member

    @sheeps at 100kg I would guess you should be ok on 4 (check manual for anything specific but my 2012 car it just says adjust for the fact there’s more leverage).

    pacerc200
    Free Member

    We have a VW Tiguan with factory swivel towbar, owners manual states 100kg nose weight but 75kg if using bike rack. We use a witter zx504 it’s a full 4 bike rack not a 3 rack with an extension fitted for wheels but bike 4 top tube is linked to bike 3 top tube. takes 4 road bikes easily but requires a wee bit of thought with 4 big mtb to prevent fork/seat chain stays rubbing. Electrics come with 7 and 13 pin fitted

    moshimonster
    Free Member

    Also bear in mind that the limit on the tow bar for bikes will be lower than the limit for trailer nose weight, because the weight on the rack is maybe 0.6m behind the towball so puts more leverage on the towbar. Focus Estate, for example, is rated 90kg on the towball but max 3 bikes.

    Spot on observation there. My car has a 250 kg trailer nose weight limit, but only 55 kg for a bike rack. Quite some difference!

    As for bike racks, I have a Whispbar 3+1 from Roofbox which I’m pretty happy with on the whole. Ideally I would prefer wheel only fixings, but I couldn’t find any of that type in the uk

    Whispbar

    TroutWrestler
    Free Member

    You might find that is a 250kg towing limit. A 250kg nose weight limit is MASSIVE.

    garage-dweller
    Full Member

    A 250kg nose weight limit is MASSIVE.

    Agreed. That’s big pickup/commercial territory.

    rogermoore
    Full Member

    I have a Buzz Rack Easy 4 sat in the garage doing nothing after being used for one 2 week touring hol in France. Drop me a DM if you’re thinking of looking for a second hand rack.
    RM.

    iainc
    Full Member

    Spot on observation there. My car has a 250 kg trailer nose weight limit, but only 55 kg for a bike rack. Quite some difference

    At least you don’t have a heavy number plate to add to the weight …😂

    granny_ring
    Full Member

    You might find that is a 250kg towing limit.

    Nope, that’s far too low. Mine has 1800kg towing limit.

    moshimonster
    Free Member

    You might find that is a 250kg towing limit. A 250kg nose weight limit is MASSIVE.

    LOL no. Towing limit is 5000 kg. Nose/tongue limit 250 kg, accessory/bike rack load 55 kg. As others have said, it’s all about the torque these racks put on the frame mounting.

    moshimonster
    Free Member

    At least you don’t have a heavy number plate to add to the weight …😂

    Well spotted, lol. I did fit a number plate before using it. That pic was taken when I first tried it on the car with a couple of bikes.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    A saloon car with a 5000kg towing weight???

    EDIT if that’s a Model X then it’s 5000 POUNDS not kg. Guessing you’ve made the same mistake with the nose weight too, 120kg nose weight and 2300kg towing is is about right for an SUV.

    Double check you haven’t also made the same mistake with bike racks as you’ve exceeded 55lbs there.

    colp
    Full Member

    ^
    Yep, my xlwb Vito with a payload upgrade can only tow under 3000kg

    oldtennisshoes
    Full Member

    For 4 bikes on a Superb, I’d go roof mounted unless you have e-bikes in the mix.

    tetrode
    Full Member

    Is there a preferred tow bar type for bike racks? I’m looking at getting one fitted to my MK5 Golf and I can see that there are a couple of different styles (swan neck/flange etc). Is one more preferable to another? I would only be using it for a bike rack, no other towing jobs.

    moshimonster
    Free Member

    A saloon car with a 5000kg towing weight???

    EDIT if that’s a Model X then it’s 5000 POUNDS not kg. Guessing you’ve made the same mistake with the nose weight too, 120kg nose weight and 2300kg towing is is about right for an SUV.

    Double check you haven’t also made the same mistake with bike racks as you’ve exceeded 55lbs there.

    Sorry, yes towing weight is 5000 lbs (I was in a hurry posting), but the other limits I quoted were correct. Just to clarify with the precise figures:-

    Towing limit: 5000 lbs (2268 kg)
    Nose/Tongue weight limit: 500 lbs (227 kg)
    Accessory/bike rack limit: 120 lbs (54 kg)

    The point is that you do have to check your specific accessory rack limit, which will likely be signficantly lower than the trailer nose weight limit. I would imagine a lot of car towbars are very marginal for carrying 4x large mountain bikes.

    Greybeard
    Free Member

    Interesting about the Focus Estate being 90kg – the current Grand Tourneo Connect (which I understand is on a Focus platform) seems to be only 75kg and the petrol hatch we have is only 75kg too.

    Found the reference, in the manual that came with the car – it’s 75kg for the hatchback and 90kg for the Estate.

    natrix
    Free Member

    Presumably the recomended nose weight assumes just a driver in the car. If you have a driver and passengers in the car the effect of the weight on the tow bar will be less. (Not suggesting that anybody tries this but just thinking about the theory)

    moshimonster
    Free Member

    Found the reference, in the manual that came with the car – it’s 75kg for the hatchback and 90kg for the Estate.

    But is that the limit for bike racks too or just the trailer nose weight? They are not the same thing.

    Jamze
    Full Member

    Sorry, yes towing weight is 5000 lbs (I was in a hurry posting), but the other limits I quoted were correct. Just to clarify with the precise figures:-

    Towing limit: 5000 lbs (2268 kg)
    Nose/Tongue weight limit: 500 lbs (227 kg)
    Accessory/bike rack limit: 120 lbs (54 kg)

    Interesting the nose weight is so high on the Model X. Is that because it self-levels, means it can take more before the front wheels lift 🤔 My big 4×4 has self-levelling too, is about the same weight as a Model X and can take 150kg on the nose.

    Milese
    Free Member

    I’ve got a BUZZ RACK BB4, get on with it fine. Just need to load the car before fitting as it doesnt tilt, but can always pass things over the back seats and plan for it.

    As for the weights, never checked, use with a 2013 Passat Estate, but with 2 kids bikes at the moment.

    pdw
    Free Member

    Is that because it self-levels, means it can take more before the front wheels lift?

    Self levelling presumably just adjusts the suspension rather than shifting any weight around, so I wouldn’t expect it make any real difference on that front. Of course, adjusting the suspension does mean that you won’t be driving around on the rear bump stops, so that may be part of it.

    Still surprising that the difference for nose weight vs bike rack weight is so big for the Tesla.

    Greybeard
    Free Member

    But is that the limit for bike racks too or just the trailer nose weight? They are not the same thing.

    Indeed they are not, and that’s what my original post said, I was just following up a question re 90kg. There’s no weight specified for bikes, just ‘3 bike rack’ maximum, and that’s less than 90kg.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    If you have a driver and passengers in the car the effect of the weight on the tow bar will be less.

    Eh? The bar and its frame and the bolts that hold it in still have to hold up the noseweight regardless of how many people are in the car…

    Is that because it self-levels, means it can take more before the front wheels lift

    Wouldn’t have thought so. Self-levelling is not that rare so it wouldn’t explain such a high noseweight. Also, it’s probably not down to the suspension as you can put 600kg in my car which would affect the rear suspension significantly more than 85kg of nose weight I think, even if it is a bit further forward.

    pdw
    Free Member

    The bar and its frame and the bolts that hold it in still have to hold up the noseweight regardless of how many people are in the car

    Yes, but if the concern is the effect on handling due to too little weight on the front wheels then adding a front seat passenger will help a bit.

    Fat-boy-fat
    Full Member

    @moshimonster
    <div class=”bbp-author-role”>
    <div>How is the Whispbar rack? It looks like I’m coming to the end of the life of my current Atera Strada and have been thinking about the Whispbar as a replacement as I keep wearing out the clamp on Ateras.</div>
    </div>

    moshimonster
    Free Member

    How is the Whispbar rack?

    It’s faultless for this type of rack. Super easy to fit/remove in seconds. Tilts right out of the way of any hatch. Quality is top notch. Bike spacing is fine for big full suss trail bikes with wide bars, but can be close. It does require a bit of thought when attaching the quick release arms to the bike frame, but that’s the same story for all these tray type racks. For this reason I do prefer the front & rear tyre holders (no frame fixing) on my INNO roof carrier, but I couldn’t find anything like that on a UK towbar rack – although I have seen towbar racks with those in the US.

    moshimonster
    Free Member

    Interesting the nose weight is so high on the Model X. Is that because it self-levels, means it can take more before the front wheels lift 🤔 My big 4×4 has self-levelling too, is about the same weight as a Model X and can take 150kg on the nose.

    It does self-level on air suspension. Kerb weight is around 2300 kg (75 kWh battery) with pretty much 50/50 weight distribution. CofG is also extremely low due to the battery. So that could be a factor.

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