Tim Farron

So plenty of ire aimed my way for my words and sentiments. ( I have apologised for the words and made a direct apology by email to the person I insulted) but how do you feel when its the other way round?

I used to work alongside nuns in a religious based organisation. I was asked by one of the nuns what my faith was. To the reply “none” she said ” thats a terrible shame, you won’t get to heaven, I’ll pray for you” Now to me that was as offensive in the sentiment if not the words as it implies I am lacking and a lessor being. I am sure she meant it kindly so I didn’t react further but I did find it pretty offensive.

Surely if I am out of order for thinking ( but not acting on) a belief that those with faith have something lacking then that is equally out of order?

You cannot have this both ways

And this is one tiny bit of a Drs role. Marrying people is a huge chunk of a registrars role…

And (shhhhhh…) same-sex marriages are a tiny proportion of all marriages

Ninfan. I am not sure there is a huge moral difference in theory but given the difference in seriousness ( a catholic doctor performing an abortion would not be able to get to heaven) As one is an act seen as murder by some and the other is simply a ritual and form of words.

I have to say I find the whole marriage think incomprehensible anyway

Ninfan – should I be allowed to refuse to treat tories? I find the tory philosophy morally repugnant

ninfan your analogy – although interesting – isn’t close enough.

A better analogy might be – should Drs who do terminations be able were to refuse to do terminations on married people?

Drs either do do or don’t do terminations and are in any case obliged to make sure that there is no difference to the patient experience which ever it is.

The case here is of registrars who DO do marriages but are not offering that service to one group based on their own personal views, and candidates for marriage are disadvantaged/shamed.

so this really is whataboutery on your part 😉

candidates for marriage are disadvantaged

How?

There has never been a suggestion that the candidate wouldn’t have a registrar – the local authority (whose legal duty the provision of registration services is) would just allocate a different registrar for any same-sex marriages.

Ninfan – what would happen if all registars refused?

Are you really having to resort to proving unequal treatment on the entirely hypothetical situation in which not only did ALL registrars in an area refuse, but the local authority was unable to secure the services of a registrar from anywhere else in the country with 28 days notice?

ninfan – if something is possible it could happen. When making law you have to look at what can happen in extremes.

Ninfan. Lets look at NI. around 20 registrars office ( how many to an office? One? I don’t know)
Given the large religious affiliation there and that the two main groups are both vehemently fundamentalist then its quite possible that enough could refuse to make it very difficult / impossible to fulfil all gay marriage requests

NI doesn’t have same sex marriage.

Ok then – highlands of scotland. How many registrars are there an how many contentious objectors would it need to make gay marriage impossible to get in the highlands?

Highland council run 22 different registry offices

I say again

28 days notice

😆

Irrelevant. If something is possible to happen than it could happen and must be planned for

I do love how those who profess to love all of gods children want public servants to be allowed to use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against people.

Fancy answering the question? what would happen if all registrars refuse?

Nothing good will come from this thread.

Fancy answering the question? what would happen if all registrars refuse?

I say again, you have 28 days to secure one from your own area, a neighbouring area, another area, or train/licence employ/recruit another one (who under the amendment as proposed as a new employee wouldn’t have the right to refuse)

Your argument is nonsense TJ – you might as well ask what is the plan in the NHS if every single pharmacist/doctor/surgeon/pathologist all phoned in sick on the same day

To the reply “none” she said ” thats a terrible shame, you won’t get to heaven, I’ll pray for you” Now to me that was as offensive in the sentiment if not the words as it implies I am lacking and a lessor being. I am sure she meant it kindly so I didn’t react further but I did find it pretty offensive.

You are offended by being told by someone you think is feeble minded you won’t go to a place that you don’t believe in, bless.

I find the tory philosophy morally repugnant

I have voted Tory in the past so should I find this offensive?

For someone who throws pejoratives around with abandon, you are a surprisingly delicate little flower.

No mefty – once again the point goes spectacularly over your head. Its clear she thought less of me as a person for having no faith. thats the offensive bit. Morally equivalent to what I did you keep reminding me about.

delicate snowflake – tossing round insults shows you have lost the arguement.

But she is feeble minded and you need a new prescription.

So no answer then. shows the lack of clear thinking. with that I amout.

tossing round insults shows you have lost the arguement

As you reopened this thread by calling someone a bigot, did the argument ever start?

Farron is a biogot. He discriminates against homosexuals and wnts to make it leagal for public servants to discriminate against homosexuals. On this thread before peope were defending him but his recent words blew the defence out of the water.

Now that nun thought of me as a lessor being for having no faith. Are you going to condemn her as much as you condemned me or is it another case of one rule for the religious and another for the non religious? Are you really holding non religious to a higher standard than you hold the religious?

this in spades TJ why are you feeding the troll?
@ mefty What word do you prefer for those who choose to treat/view/measure homosexuals differently from heterosexuals?
As bigot offends you what term shall we use?
Serious question

TeeJ, it might help if you could be a little less binary in your expression of your sentiments. I sort of defended Farron at first, and certainly feel a little less sympathetically towards him now. But that’s nuance for you.

At the same time:

Second time I’ve seen this stalking / bullying nonsense aimed at TJ. Guess it may not have been you, but…

Has happened plenty more than twice from christian right wingers who shit their pants at any criticism of their faith, and moreso, politicians who are so openly Christian. See also Rees-Mogg. One would believe they have that quote by TeeJ to Geetee in a permanent clipboard in the corner of their desktop screen. It always seems to come to hand very quickly. They’re never as quick to defend a muslim like, say Sadiq Khan who was subjected to Islamophobic smears in an election campaign, because their candidate is by all accounts, a jolly good sort. And IIRC, TeeJ apologised for it at the time, or subsequently and has been forced to re-apologise numerous times for it. They just can’t let stuff lie.

It not like their book tells them to forgive and to turn the other cheek now is it
He is correct though TJ you are even more binary than I am.

Are you really holding non religious to a higher standard than you hold the religious?

the reality is we need to specifically exempt religious folk from anti discrimination legislation or they would fall foul of it as they do discriminate on a protected characteristic.

they then moan when we call this what it is and then ask for tolerance.

I treat them the same as I do any person who discriminates in this way , with contempt.

deadlydarcy – Member

TeeJ, it might help if you could be a little less binary in your expression of your sentiments.

Yup- it would indeed. A failure of the way my mind works. I tend to live in a black and white world. I am an imperfect being.
I don’t really know any shades of grey let alone 50 of them

TJ why are you feeding the troll?

Dunno – I keep thinking its a serious debate as mefty is capable of serious debate and Its interesting to see him squirm when faced with difficult questions like:

Now that nun thought of me as a lessor being for having no faith. Are you going to condemn her as much as you condemned me or is it another case of one rule for the religious and another for the non religious? Are you really holding non religious to a higher standard than you hold the religious?

But yes – its run its course and more. I reopened it as Farrons words show him ( as my contention was earlier) that he is a homophobic bigot and that the defences many used for him were rendered null an void by Farrons own words

No need to be so humble TJ.

You show tremendous moral dexterity in abusing an MP who resigns on the basis that he cannot reconcile his beliefs with the responsibilities of his position while providing financial support to a body of people who oppose both abortion and same sex marriages and actively lobby foreign MPs based on their conviction on these matters.

Not many could be that flexible in their moral stances. Not black and white at all.

I tend to live in a black and white world. I am an imperfect being.

Thats a terrible shame TJ, we’ll pray for you

I tend to live in a black and white world

I knew you were old, but not that old!

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11923/tim_farron/westmorland_and_lonsdale/divisions?policy=826

Voted 5 times for allowing marriage between two people of same sex, never against.

Farron’s voting record on ‘this kind of thing’ is first class. There was one single issue where there was a conflict of two sets of rights and came up with a pretty reasonable temporary compromise which ought to keep everyone happy. (FFS, would couples want to be married by someone who didn’t want to marry them anyway? Who wants someone putting on a false smile at their wedding.)

I agree but apparently the Mother- in – law had to be there 😉

Matthew 7:1

Out of breath – if you look closer at his voting record he absented himself from many votes where his religious views conflicted with the liberal philosophy, he consistently voted anti abortion including the foul proposition of compulsory cooling off periods and compulsory counselling which is a a prime tactic of the anti abortion movement becaue its proven to put women off having legal abortions.

clever politics to avoid those votes but incompatible with being a liberal

ninfan – Member

I tend to live in a black and white world. I am an imperfect being.

Thats a terrible shame TJ, we’ll pray for you[/quote]

Lols – I am glad someone caught the reference

thegreatape – Member

I tend to live in a black and white world

I knew you were old, but not that old! [/quote]

Even more Lols – that one was unintentional 🙂

I did draft a reply to a few points but I lost it. So here is a quick precis.

Use of bigot – it has to be correctly used in the first place – just because you believe something is sinful doesn’t mean you show prejudice against someone and I don’t think Farron does. But generally, perjorative terms of any kinds are thrown around too often, we are fortunate to have a language with many words, it is good to show ambition.

The quote etc – four times at most and I will continue to use it as it illustrates his extreme views which based on more recent postings he still seems to hold, so even if he apologized which he didn’t on the forum, I think it would be an apology for being caught out. My underwear has never been soiled reading this site. On Sadiq Khan, I don’t recall any threads but I certainly wouldn’t have sufficient knowledge of the muslim faith to know how widely held certain beliefs are etc. Tim Farron is hardly a political bedfellow – obviously a metaphor.

“A person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions”

If you say something is a sin, it’s hard to argue you’re not being intolerant

“An immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.
‘a sin in the eyes of God’
1.1 An act regarded as a serious or regrettable fault, offence, or omission.

I wouldn’t say bigot personally just because it’s such a charged word, but I don’t think it’s an unfair comment.

If you say something is a sin, it’s hard to argue you’re not being intolerant

Not really, you are only intolerant or prejudicial, if you do something – just thinking something doesn’t mean you are intolerant or prejudicial, doing something to stop them doing it would be.

mefty – Member

Not really, you are only intolerant or prejudicial, if you do something

Colour me unconvinced. It’s certainly a step better than acting on it but it doesn’t mean it’s not there.