Tim Farron

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  • Tim Farron
  • Premier Icon Northwind
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    wallop – Member

    Yeah I’ve never understood the flak Clegg receives – I’ve always been impressed by him.

    The thing people often forget about Clegg, is that he actually did really badly in the 2010 election. The Lib Dems lost 5 seats. The only reason it looked like a success was the lack of a majority- not his doing, he just happened to be in the right place at hte right time and his diminished party was still big enough.

    So that’s his high point, an unsuccesful election, which was immediately followed by the coalition years, of which nuff said frankly- his own book is critical enough to condemn him. And well worth a read btw

    Premier Icon aracer
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    mikewsmith wrote:

    May might have calculated it all out but that doesn’t mean that is how it will play out. As said many times if you can get the young out to vote the answer isn’t always what you expect.

    This is the thing – can we duplicate last year’s unexpected voting results in this election? I certainly can’t see why it wouldn’t be possible given this is far from a normal election and given that the relative turnout seems to have swung last year’s results, turnout is also likely to be assymetric this time. As you suggest, all it will likely take is to motivate the young to vote. Given I seem to be collecting a lot of FB friends half my age recently I’m wondering therefore whether to break my self-imposed avoidance of commenting on political stuff on FB (if I’m judging them correctly I don’t need to influence which way they vote, simply whether they vote).

    bugger – now I’m discussing the election on the thread intended to clean up the election thread 🙄

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    I guess the leaders names threads are the election threads, if not what is it about – somebody tell me the rules and get me a sub forum quick 😉
    What is clear is there needs to be some solid policy announcements very soon.
    So far Caps on fuel payments, not sure about Trident and UKIP bigots are the headlines
    http://www.bbc.com/news/politics
    Yes he needs to sort the homophobic question but he needs to follow that with a clear direction and reasons why people should vote for him. The reason a lot of people get disenganged is the points scoring negative campaining about how bad the other lot would be. However I would reserve a special place for the current government and it’s recent problem with promises. A few of those bill boards would be good.

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    The reason a lot of people get disenganged is the points scoring negative campaining about how bad the other lot would be

    I don’t think there’s enough actual debate about policies, how they would work and what they would achieve. Too much smoke and mirrors.

    Premier Icon Daffy
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    I’ve worked for/with and been friends with BACs for years and despite my initial misgivings, they’re a great bunch of people. I’m totally non-religious and was still invited to parties, gatherings, weddings etc. They’re a great bunch of people with superb ideals which when transposed from religion into their general work/business/personal activities, make them a seriously sound group of people.

    Tim Farron’s religious views, especially given his voting record, are far from a negative point for me.

    Premier Icon Sandwich
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    TJAgain. Jennie Rigg would dispute your reading of the man. She’s probably more qualified than you or I to make that call.

    shermer75
    Member

    His voting record on LGBT issues is exemplary and his religious beliefs do not appear to impair his ability to be a reasonable human being.
    There appears to be a concerted effort to embarrass him by professional excrement-stirrers in the media. Their efforts show more about them than about their target.

    ^This. I’m looking forward to voting for them on June 8th! 🙂

    Do people believe that a person can seperate their values from their language and behaviours?

    Everything we do, say and think is related to our values – why should an MP be any different? If Farron holds strong beliefs about homesexuality, I believe these values will play out in his working life.

    Edit: Seen post above. Just voting for a policy is one part – how about all the parts leading up to new policies being introduced e.g. the priority he puts upon the bits of work he wants to spend time on.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    edenvalleyboy – Member
    Do people believe that a person can seperate their values from their language and behaviours?

    Everything we do, say and think is related to our values – why should an MP be any different? If Farron holds strong beliefs about homesexuality, I believe these values will play out in his working life.
    I work with some very strict Mormon guys, they have very straight lives and all of that. However they have no problem when we all get together shouting a load of beers (and caffeine) it does make them also very good to deal with as they are straight talking and honest.
    Each individual can be one or the other, have a deep personal belief but act and accept difference. It’s about the person not the belief system.

    tjagain
    Member

    Sandwich – and she would be wrong as a more detailed analysis shows

    I have read that open letter. Its written by a lib dem activist.

    Try this analysis of his voting
    https://stavvers.wordpress.com/2017/04/20/tim-farrons-homophobic-and-anti-choice-voting-history-in-easily-shareable-format/

    Tim Farron has voted against LGBT rights and women’s rights

    He can attempt to weasel out of it all he wants but his record is clear. anti abortion and homophobic

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    and to add, TM will change her mind to suit her best interests and JC seems to like sacking people who defy his personal beliefs. Who you going to choose?

    tjagain
    Member

    Who am I going to chose? I would vote for the candidate most likely to beat the tories even if that would mean holding my nose and voting lib dem
    https://www.tactical2017.com/

    @mikesmith – the person IS the belief system. It’s basic sociology (not meaning that to come across as patronising).

    Another way of looking at it. People also know how to integrate. Your friends will undoubtedly act one way in front of you (with them knowing your beliefs) and another in the comfort of their own value driven circle of friends.

    Do you tell everyone you know all of your values? I bet you don’t. You adapt to your social surroundings to fit in an be accepted.

    Sandwich – Member
    His voting record on LGBT issues is exemplary…

    Do you know this, or are you just repeating what you heard on The Last Leg, verbatim? 🙄

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    @mikesmith – the person IS the belief system. It’s basic sociology (not meaning that to come across as patronising).

    But the person can choose to be tolerant of things they do not personally approve of. See across all religions from the strictest followers to the people who go along with it. You are judging his tolerance/acceptance based on his beliefs which are not the same things.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
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    Clegg gets a lot of stick from me (long term Lib Dem voter and donor) as he showed he has absolutely no convictions. Having stood on a platform of no tuition fee increases he waved through a threefold increase to £9k pa and he described the Alternative Vote as as “grubby little compromise” before campaigning for it in the Referendum 😯 He stands for absolutely nothing.

    IMO the Lib Dems will not see a resurgence in this election. The coalition was a disaster for them and the prospect of an Labour/SNP alliance remains a key driver of the Tory vote in Lib Dem target seats in England.

    ScottChegg
    Member

    Who am I going to chose? I would vote for the candidate most likely to beat the tories even if that would mean holding my nose and voting lib dem

    There’s nothing like voting with your hatred.

    You aren’t standing for anything; just against one thing.

    It would make more sense if you voted for Labour because you believed in it against all common sense. It’s how UKIP made great strides.

    oldnpastit
    Member

    and the prospect of an Labour/SNP alliance remains a key driver of the Tory vote in Lib Dem target seats in England.

    This. Although I think the lib dems are well aware of it.

    Junkyard
    Member

    the problem he faces is , given how the to books contradict each other on issues such as homosexuality, he is either a very poor christian or a very poor liberal.

    Clegg was rubbish in that he capitulated on his principles to enable the Tories – I almost feel sorry for him /the party but not quite.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    It’s less than a week since the election was called. With over a month to go and a lot of ground to cover many things will change. We still have to see how the tories try and appease both side of their own support along with the kippers. May has to defend her record and changes of mind and all parties need to launch their Manifesto and more importantly their Brexit Plan.
    It always appeared that TM wanted to commit to nothing until it was too late for any changes, she needs to come out with more of a plan than she has manged so far.

    So the real message is give it a week. Then come back with the predictions.

    Junkyard
    Member

    There’s nothing like voting with your hatred.
    You aren’t standing for anything; just against one thing.

    You are standing against hatred, intolerance, bigotry, big business the establishment and lots of other things the Tories stand for

    In a two party system the best I can ever do is vote for the party most likely to beat the Tories * in the area where I live as nothing is worse that Tory rule.

    You can call it hatred if you like or tactical voting as most folk do.

    * does not include UKIP

    tjagain
    Member

    Junkyard – Farrons position on christianity / the bible is the standard evangelical one ” “Christianity is not a bit true. It’s either wrong or utterly compellingly true” ie as he still states he is a Christian then to him every word of it is 100% true and right and he must follow the bible 100%

    This is why he is dangerous in a way moderate Christians who accept the bible as a guide, as parables etc is not.

    tjagain
    Member

    More analysis of his positions – from someone who is a christian and a lib dem

    http://scottish-liberal.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/tim-farron-is-either-wrong-or.html

    So will those criticising his views on homosexuality be happy now he has set his stall out at last?

    greentricky – Member
    So will those criticising his views on homosexuality be happy now he has set his stall out at last?

    Bloody grubby line of questioning from the beginning.

    Premier Icon bodgy
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    Personally, I am going to be voting for the Lib Dems; I live in Oliver F***ing Letwin’s stronghold constituency. The only chance of one less nasty Tory is to vote Lib Dem. Frankly, Farron’s religious views don’t even enter into the equation. It’s tactical against the Tories.

    The Lib Dems are the only party around here that actually campaign for local people, and local people’s concerns; the Conservatives have the luxury of sitting back in the knowledge that they are safe, despite the amount of cuts they are imposing on local and county NHS services, Mental health services, children’s services, schools, special educational needs services, bus services, civic services . . . the list just goes on and on, yet still agricultural and silver haired people will still vote for the f***tards.

    But, hey . . . ‘sovereignty’, right?

    In Dorset any national election vote for the Greens or Corbyn’s shower-of-shite Momentum rabble is a vote that might as well not be cast.

    mefty
    Member

    So will those criticising his views on homosexuality be happy now he has set his stall out at last?

    Not until partakes in gay sex on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square, but DD +1.

    nick1962
    Member

    Clegg was rubbish in that he capitulated on his principles to enable the Tories

    I disagree,Clegg was rubbish because he was happy to ditch whatever principles he may or may not have had because he was seduced by power,or more accurately the illusion of power.

    Premier Icon bodgy
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    If Farron is perceived to be a threat by both the Tory/UKIP trolls on this forum and the Corbyn/Momentum trolls on this forum . . . well, that only strengthens my support for him.

    I’d rather vote for somebody who recognises and reconciles a conflict in his beliefs than vote for the out-and-out spite merchants.

    With some great contributions from one chap in the comments section…

    Tim Farron is the man of the moment. The voters have had enough of roast swan bones tossed down at them from the High Tables of Oxford, they are sick of Jamie Blair’s overpriced Italian drizzles and they think Corbyn’s vegetarian burritos will give them flatulence. The British people are pleading for Tim Farron’s sausage, chips and beans. Forget the sandal of Corbyn, forget the kitten-heeled jackboot of the Maytriarch, it is the brown piss-catcher shoe on the foot of Farron that will be stepping into Downing Street on whatever the date is in June.

    and

    He’s mild, he’s bland, he has to rule this land, Tim Farron, Tim Farron.

    “Good article”

    Agree with every word. Mind you it’s pretty much all been said on this thread already.

    tjagain
    Member

    The trouble is that article does not address the problem – Farrons longstanding homophobia and his complete refusal to answer the questions.

    He could have killed the whole line of questioning very simply by making a clear statement that homosexuality and homosexual sex is not a sin – but he can’t do this as he is an evangelical Christian fundamentalist who believes every word of the bible is 100% true

    Spin
    Member

    Before all this I never new he was the Lib Dem leader so I guess it’s raised his profile if nothing else!

    grubby line of questioning from the beginning.

    Indeed.

    TJ, I think you’re seeing it wrong on this one. I can’t quote a dictionary definition of homophobia off the top of my head, but it’s something like an irrational fear or loathing of homosexuals due to their sexuality – along those lines anyway. Farron quite clearly neither loathes, hates or fears homosexuals. A belief that gay sex is a sin, if that’s what he believes, does not equate to a hatred or even dislike of gays. As I understand it, in his eyes, someone engaging in gay sex is no more wrong than sins committed by anyone else, including himself. It’s disingenuous to think he looks down on or thinks he’s better than gay people. I have a long standing admiration for your defence of the underdog and intolerance of bullying or oppressive behaviour, but on this one I think your stance is illogical and incorrect, and an unfair representation of Farron’s position.

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    who believes every word of the bible is 100% true

    He does shave his beard though and I’m pretty sure that’s not allowed.,
    I’d vote for Thatcher if she said she was going to keep us in Europe. I’m not voting for Farron I’m voting to save this country from the curtain twitching hate merchants.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    So it seems if you really really need an excuse not to vote Lib Dem you can have one. Obviously a vote for a tory is going to go so very much better and none of them really hate people (and I mean really hate them not just accept that people can have different choices and it’s not your place to pass judgement or laws on that)

    TJ, I think you’re seeing it wrong on this one. I can’t quote a dictionary definition of homophobia off the top of my head, but it’s something like an irrational fear or loathing of homosexuals due to their sexuality – along those lines anyway. Farron quite clearly neither loathes, hates or fears homosexuals. A belief that gay sex is a sin, if that’s what he believes, does not equate to a hatred or even dislike of gays. As I understand it, in his eyes, someone engaging in gay sex is no more wrong than sins committed by anyone else, including himself. It’s disingenuous to think he looks down on or thinks he’s better than gay people.

    Nicely put. FFS eating too much is a sin. If there were a culture that regularly over-ate would that make Farron a racist?

    It’s as ludicrous to think Farron has a problem with homosexual sex (a term nobody seems willing to define) as it would be to think he was going to make jealousy illegal.

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    The trouble is that article does not address the problem

    TJ, Time to look up the meanings of the words “irony”, “bigotry” and then the term “confirmation bias”

    finephilly
    Member

    I met him at a local hustings (Montgomeryshire). it was surprising how knowledgeable he was about farming and the countryside. I also think its good he displays a tolerance for alternative lifestyles. The lib dems have some great ideas and I like their community spirit.

    Premier Icon aracer
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    tjagain wrote:

    The trouble is that article does not address the problem

    There is no spoon

    I thought he came rather well out of this exchange:

    Farron

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