This should stop the 'term time holiday' arguements

it will still, more than likely, be cheaper to pay the fine than pay double for the holiday so it wont change much.

In isolation, we can all make a good case for taking individual kids out of school.
all? I still haven’t seen one in this entire thread.

It all reads very much like the moneyed middle classes think they should be allowed to take their kids out of school because they go on educational holidays, but the proles who can’t afford quite the same shouldn’t be allowed the same leeway.

Ahhh, now we are getting somewhere.

Yes, of course, that is where Gove is headed – because outside of the LEA sector, the schools that Gove wants the moneyed middle classes to send their kids to do these sort of trips anyway don’t they…

“Independent” schools have always been big on expeditions etc as part of their programmes of learning and personal development.

Been out all day,and not reading all of this,could somebody give me the salient points please. I take it that there are still two camps,but mostly it is none of our damn business if you want to take your kid out of school. Has the strike action be used to beat the teaching staff yet? That is the way the first couple of pages were going.

For what it is worth,I have no problem with Stoner taking his 5yo to the TdF,especially at that time of year. However; it is a holiday. I reckon I will see perhaps a third of my certificated classes go on holiday between now and exam leave in May. Last year a Mother wrote to me asking me to provide catch up work and wondering what lunchtime would be suitable if her daughter needed some extra help. She had gone to Florida for two weeks on the last day of the Easter hols. BTW; any prospective employer/Uni sees the % of attendance of any pupil. A question,bearing in mind there are probably two very different views on this thread,and I guess this is aimed at you Stoner; will you still be taking him when he is 15? (apologies if the bigger hitters have arrived and covered this)

It all reads very much like the moneyed middle classes think they should be allowed to take their kids out of school because they go on educational holidays, but the proles who can’t afford quite the same shouldn’t be allowed the same leeway.

And there’s no envy or unwarranted judgement of others in that statement is there 🙄

It shouldn’t matter what your background is, if you can convince the head teacher that you have reasonable grounds to take your child out of school, be it for educational reasons or the inability to take time off in school holidays or whatever, the childs general attendance is good and they are performing well in school then that is what counts.

duckman, maybe you should have read the rest of the thread through as most people in favour of being able to take their kids out in term time made an effort to point out that missing school at 5 and 15 would have very different consequences.

Stoner; will you still be taking him when he is 15?

stumpyjon (and wallace1492) has covered all my points of view on this throughout the thread with much more decorum and much less frothing than I managed.

One thing thats always going to get a parent’s backs up, is criticism of their parenting choices. Up there with 650b, Maverick frames and flatties vs spds in the contentious stakes.

6 pages in 22 hours. Is there a record for the fastest growing thread?

It is all moot anyway, we will be going on work to rule from the Autumn; so by the time you have paid for a tutor in 4 subjects, £150 to get them into the local indy DoE unit (because the DoE is worth UCAS points,dontchaknow) and paid for the football/rugby/hockey training we provide for free. You won’t have any money left to go on holiday in term time.*

stumpyjon (and wallace1492) has covered all my points of view on this throughout the thread with much more decorum and much less frothing than I managed.

I got the impression you wanted to ensure that you got the benefits from sending your kid to the school with an opt out should you want to go on HOLIDAY.

* Used to show some of the things us schools (which having read the thread) that are so poor and staffed with such lazy feckless skivers do for your kids (in between their “educational trips.”)

No UCAS points for DofE unfortunately, although admissions tutors will note the energy, self-discipline, commitment and capacity for teamwork that is required for completing the award.
As someone who gives permission for pupils to miss school, I would also add that some basic politeness would be nice. You clearly didn’t book your ski trip to Canada the day before you leave, so why wait until then to ‘ask permission’. That’s just plain rude, and not setting a very good example.

And there’s no envy or unwarranted judgement of others in that statement is there

Well as one of the moneyed middle classes who did get taken on skiing holidays in term time I think he makes a pretty good point tbh. 😉

My sister is taking her (4 and 7) kids out of school this week so that she can babysit lots of other kids for a close friend’s mum’s funeral. My sister is a primary headteacher. (but not their headteacher). Will Mr Gove come round and give her a stern talking to? 😆

gove might enforce ban on removing kids but its holiday companies who are taking the p*** i took my son out off school 1day early few years ago daughter had teacher training day saved myself £1000 on price of my summer hol so £50 fine wont bother me. but think you should only do it relevant to term time, not exam time etc

Ah well, at the end of the day…

Gove is only the English education minister.

gove might enforce ban on removing kids but its holiday companies who are taking the p*** i took my son out off school 1day early few years ago daughter had teacher training day saved myself £1000 on price of my summer hol so £50 fine wont bother me.

I’ve put my input into this thread a page or two back with my current teacher head on but could shed some light on this quote from days (black and white days mind you) managing a holiday centre.

The economics of most overseas holiday centres is that they run on a model that barely breaks even and covers the fixed costs in the off and shoulder periods but then makes the entire profits for the year in the peak period. To run a centre you need to lease or run the hotel for the whole season and there are fixed costs in doing so and you feel lucky to cover those with paying guests and even charging much less you struggle to be even half full out of peak season. In peak season we could have been full 3 times over. When taken as a whole throughout the year profits were pretty modest. Making the costs more even throughout the year just would not be econmically viable with the current UK school holiday dates. It’s just market forces.

One thought might be to look again at when schools have their holidays – could different counties be at slightly different times therefore extending the holiday season and changing the cost structure of holidays. Working around public exams might be a hassle though.

I tried to read all the posts and got bored. So I hope I don’t repeat what’s been said.

My 11 year old is a great skier and can ski black runs . From mostly taking a week off during term time. It was mine and my wife’s decision. Next year he’s in big school and we won’t do that because of school commitments

He works hard in school, takes extra tuition and I believe it’s worth it. Having done this, he can take this skill going forwards and has given him huge confidence.

This year we took the children from Thurs to Thurs over half term missing Friday. The new headmaster would not allow it. We went anyway. It saved a huge chunk of cost. This is just as Andywoods says.

Going to the original post – that’s great. Take your son to the TDF. He’ll never forget it. And let’s face it, he’ll get a better view than trying to watch road cycling in the Olympics

when it comes to school holidays , France is divided into zones , the 3 zones have different holidays , except in the summer and xmas I think . it was done to avoid traffic on the roads .

surely a similar system would mean there is less demand for holidays and might bring the prices down a little bit , making it more affordable for people to go on holiday ?

Can someone tell me where these holidays are that cost the same in and out of term time please? I’d really appreciate it. Assuming we’re not talking about camping in Birmingham or something.

Any holiday I’ve ever looked at that wasn’t entirely self-catering and in a tent (and don’t get me wrong, we do those too), has been *at least* double the price out of term time. Some skiing holidays will treble in price during school holidays especially those that are popular with families.

Thanks.

And let’s face it, he’ll get a better view than trying to watch road cycling in the Olympics

applied for lots of tickets (triathlon, track cycling, hockey). got none.

Can someone tell me where these holidays are that cost the same in and out of term time please? I’d really appreciate it. Assuming we’re not talking about camping in Birmingham or something.
Any holiday I’ve ever looked at that wasn’t entirely self-catering and in a tent (and don’t get me wrong, we do those too), has been *at least* double the price out of term time. Some skiing holidays will treble in price during school holidays especially those that are popular with families.
Thanks.

http://www.secretdestinations.com/one-price-all-year-round-villas.html

As a parent of two boys, both at primary school, it amuses me greatly when parents bleat on and on about the cost of going on holiday.

Rather than boring on about how expensively is and how unfair it is why not go see your GP and get a strong dose of PTFU. You aren’t entitled to a foreign holiday, it’s not owed to you.

Back in the day, when going abroad was genuinely expensive all the time, our parents took us on holiday in the uk, camping usually. What’s wrong with doing that? It’s perfectly possible to have an ace time for not too much money if you use your nut, plan in advance and don’t expect to live a lifestyle that’s clearly beyond your means.

Is my memory failing, or didn’t TJ argue elsewhere for ‘discretionary’ obedience to traffic regulation measures?

The problem is the prevailing “don’t tell me what I can or can’t do, i’ll do what the f*** I like, it isn’t hurting anyone” attitude in society … when I was at school people had more respect for the education system & teachers, people in positions of authority in general actually … society has become increasingly self-centred in pretty much all areas …

‘discretionary’ obedience to traffic regulation measures

Society is generally too stupid for anything discretionary to work properly.

Most people can’t even manage to do things they’re asked/expected to do, so expecting them to make appropriate decisions using their own head is laughable.

“Discretion” = “Do what I like”, in most peoples narrow, selfish little world.

http://www.secretdestinations.com/one-price-all-year-round-villas.html

Excellent. Many thanks. Got any skiing holiday stuff? 😉

ditch_jockey – Member

Is my memory failing, or didn’t TJ argue elsewhere for ‘discretionary’ obedience to traffic regulation measures?

Not that it has any relevance at all but when its my safety at risk then yes I will break traffic law. I will not do it for my convenience nor to save a few pennies. As regards taking your children out of school – I have no problem if its for a good reason – but merely saving money is not good reason to me.

Haven’t read all the previous, apologies if this point has already been made

I am seperated from my two daughters mother and they live with her so every moment I can spend with them is very precious to me and I would like to think them. My work is reliant on tourism, it is part of my terms of employment that I may not take time off during school holidays. I don’t earn alot but try to take my daughters away for a few days once a year using the local papers “holidays for £10” offer, genuinely the only holiday I can afford for them. We usually go to a caravan park a few miles up the road. I have to take these trips in term time, sometimes including Friday and Monday or sometimes during the week dependant on what “slot” we can get and consequently my girls miss a few days school. I always give plenty of notice and get permission from the Head and class teachers (who are all excellent and do a fine job BTW)

So you see I am not looking to save a few quid on taking Tarquin and Jemima for jollies round Val d’isere dahling. I have a genuine need. Blanket legislation like this will mean my girls and I will lose precious quality time together.

Thanks Mr Gove.

when it comes to school holidays , France is divided into zones , the 3 zones have different holidays , except in the summer and xmas I think .

There French are also pretty hardcore when it comes to pupils missing school, for any reason. There are pretty hefty penalties.

Personally I am totally opposed to taking kids out of school for holidays. It teaches them that education is less important than more frivolous stuff and can have a serious effect on their attitude to learning. Parents who dress up their self interest in “but little johnny will learn loads, will write a diary, will do all his work etc etc” are just justifying their own self interest as other than seeing a few foreigners not much really happens. Certainly no more than if the holiday was during proper school holidays.

I see it all the time at college, kids (always the ones with relatively affluent parents) get taken off for holidays, fall behind on their work, do badly in their exams and then the parents are asking me what I am going to do about it. All parents seem to think their kids are clever and a week off here or there will not affect their learning. Unfortunately, their perception of their kids ability is usually exaggerated and their learning is affected no matter how good the kids are. Equally cheap holidays seem to be a bit like crack, no matter how often people say “only this once”, once they get a taste for it they cant stop, even when it comes to important periods like GCSE and A level years.

However do what you like but: accept the responsibility for you genius kids doing less well than you expected, don’t moan about crap schools and teachers being the only reason behind said underachievement, don’t expect the teachers to do loads of extra work to bring your kids up to speed etc etc.

I am seperated from my two daughters mother and they live with her so every moment I can spend with them is very precious to me …

… I have a genuine need. Blanket legislation like this will mean my girls and I will lose precious quality time together.

Scenarios like this are what the existing discrectionary system is supposed to accommodate. Actual neccessities rather than just so people can afford a nicer holiday 🙄

Mr Gove’s proposal is reported in the Daily Telegraph article as being a blanket ban.

Hopefully when the full facts are available it will be seen to allow for absence due to extenuating circumstances – i.e. head teachers will not be expected to hide behind zero-tolerance legislation

Of course, this would not prevent some parents inventing stories to get what they want 😕 … (cynical? moi?)

Well I haven’t got time to read all this but I would like to point out that holidays do not only benefit the parents. A *good* holiday can be worth a lot more than two weeks of being bored sh*tless in a classroom.

The parents of persistent truants are currently ‘fined’ (can’t pay, won’t pay, naturally), then taken to court and given a slap on the wrist.

Removing the power of headteachers to allow absence on a discretionary basis just chucks another couple of hundred thousand families into that failing system.

My two are off to play in a local music festival in a few weeks’ time – it will mean a couple of authorised absences from school. Is the school going to lose discretion over this as well? (#firstworldproblems)

Schooling is a partnership between parents and teachers. Some parents take the p*ss out of the current system, and so do some teachers. Removing any flexibility will not tackle those parents who are utterly incapable of holding up their end of the deal, just alienate the many more who just want a pragmatic and mature relationship with the school.

Fortunately it’s an unenforceable headline grabber, so we can rest easy.

On the subject of termtime holidays, I’ve never done it, but I do sometimes look at what the children actually do in the last couple of weeks of the summer term and get very tempted.

Wont this new rule royally **** with Police, Fire, Nurse/Doctor and Ambulance staff’s holiday plans with their kids?

This year we took the children from Thurs to Thurs over half term missing Friday. The new headmaster would not allow it. We went anyway. It saved a huge chunk of cost. This is just as Andywoods says.

Who would be a teacher.

I did quite like the fact that Education Welfare Officers stand outside Legoland in Windsor on term time weekdays taking details down from people with school age kids 🙂

Well I haven’t got time to read all this but I would like to point out that holidays do not only benefit the parents. A *good* holiday can be worth a lot more than two weeks of being bored sh*tless in a classroom.

A “good holiday” can just as easily be had during official school holidays.

holidays during term time are better fact – I think it’s the thrill of illicit time off school that does it.

Not that it has any relevance at all but when its my safety at risk then yes I will break traffic law

Of course it’s relevant – you’re criticising Stoner for contemplating ignoring proposed legislation, while being quite content to break existing traffic laws. A week’s absence from school is probably less risky for a child’s wellbeing than someone flouting traffic laws, especially when they’re not wearing a helmet.

especially when they’re not wearing a helmet

this thread now has all the ingredients in place for meltdown.

^^ Yes, I think after 6 pages it’s safe to say this thread no longer has a serviceable purpose other than repetition followed by bickering and personal insults … standard STW procedure

ditch jockey – so stoner is taking his children out of school to ensure their safety? Or some equal imperative?

Excellent. Many thanks. Got any skiing holiday stuff?

No worries.

There is a chalet that’s run by an English couple (ex Teachers) that doesn’t charge more in school holidays.

(or don’t charge less in term time) depending on how you look at it.

I’m pretty sure its in Meribel, but possibly Morzine. Don’t have time to look for it now I’m afraid, but they do Summer Mountainbiking and Winter skiing holidays.

Worth a search about.