Picking and choosing which bits of the law you want to obey?

sort of like picking and choosing whether or not you RLJ?

how very dare you jota.

Dress it up anyway you want it. your convenience is at the cost of not just your childrens education but others as well.

Either you play by the rules or you homeschool. Your wish for cheap holidays does not outweigh others rights to schooling

Either you play by the rules or you homeschool.

oh do one TJ.
And I think I can happily treat the vapid pronouncements of someone without children on a child’s education with all the seriousness it deserves.

Really? Or have I touched a raw nerve? Its amazing how folk just justify their selfishness.

When I was at school we would ocassionally be taken out for holidays during the term time as it was the only time we could have family holidays. It was very unusual at the time and we needed special permission. I don’t think a couple of weeks out of a school year are going to be that detrimental to a child’s education.

C’mon folks. It’s not even 8:00 and there’s personal insults already! I am (broadly) with you TJ on this one but unless we are all 100% squeaky clean (RLJ?) then we can hardly accuse others of hypocrisy.

Stoner, isn’t Gove saying that he wants to remove HMs discretion to allow up to x days holiday? As much as I generally dislike state intervention, extending the alternative argument merely leads to anarchy. Neither are desirable.

stoner: and that does (SHOULD?) not necessarily need full mandatory attendance on pain of law

agreed parents should be more responsible.

TJ any reason for copying my post?

thm – leaving discretion in the hands of someone who is in a position to apply it is a far more sensible approach – there’s no anarchy in common sense. There’s resentment and lack of respect in statist/centrist dictat.

Just hammering the point you made home 🙂

The difference is I have an imperative for my occasional RLJ which is my safety and it impinges on on no one else. Stoners reason to take his kids out of school is merely selfish and does impinge on others.

The mention of the RLJing anyway is a classic diversion tactic ‘cos he is backed into a corner – He knows he is in the wrong so has to try to divert attention from himself and also chuck in a few insults as well

Dress it up anyway you want it. your convenience is at the cost of not just your childrens education but others as well.

1 or 2 weeks really won’t have much effect on kids, not even someone else’s.

The difference is I have an imperative for my occasional RLJ which is my safety and it impinges on on no one else

Oh, pure sassenach gold, right there.

The difference is I have an imperative for my occasional RLJ which is my safety convenience as I don’t want to wait for the traffic to pass the pinch points before I get there

and it impinges on on no one else other than giving weight to overall perceptions among drivers that cyclists deem themselves above the rules

Drac – if every parent took their kids out for a different two weeks how disruptive would that be?

Stoner I agree with your first line but why has this become an issue? Is it political meddling or is it something that has now become an issue because parents/headmasters have gone beyond the point of using common sense? I suspect the latter.

The mention of the RLJing anyway is a classic diversion tactic ‘cos he is backed into a corner

er, well I mentioned it first [not Stoner]
And my kids are way past going to school so no real corner to back into I’m afraid

Drac – if every parent took their kids out for a different two weeks how disruptive would that be?

I would say that it would be about as disruptive as an earthquake destroyingbthe school only for the volcano to erupt covering it in lava and ash just before it being inhabited by aliens, just as improbable an occurrance too. 🙄

Drac – if every parent took their kids out for a different two weeks how disruptive would that be?

They carry on lessons as if they’d been there, well speaking with the experience of my kids’ school anyway. So it makes no difference.

Jota, don’t worry, TJ is just trying to discredit stoners argument

(the actual chain of events, and who actually said what are irrelevant now)

Shortly he will claim that stoner is “ranting”

Then he will repeat the same line in 1000 different ways till everyone is dead.

At least that what normally happens.

The difference is I have an imperative for my occasional RLJ which is my safety and it impinges on on no one else.

I reckon taking your kid off for holiday – say – in the middle of June would be a fair bit safer travelling than the Friday or Saturday when they break up, unless of course you come across TJ RLJing
So it’s a family safety issue

TJ earlier 😉

A friend’s brother skipped a whole year of school when they moved from Scotland to England aged 7 due to the different age cut off points, it’s a wonder the school didn’t implode.

EDIT 101 sanctimonious returns!

100 sanctimonious returns!

How many term time holidays did you have? I make that post number 101. 😀

Market forces….. If this happens then the increase in holiday time travel and holidays will increase, and school time demand will decrease… So prices for holiday time flights and static caravans in drizzly Cornish dunes will increase.

November half term my wife got the dates wrong, booked the wrong week, so called the caravan park and our three night stay more than doubled in price…. A single week later in the year…. On a half empty holiday park…. So there was not even the demand, just parent raping prices.

If this is all “ok” … Then I would like to introduce you to…..

The bikemongers holiday special pricing on inner tubes. Normally around a fiver but during the holidays they are only £13 each. With 20″ tubes being even more.

Kids can learn far more during a week of surfing in france than they can in school. But this would price us out of overseas holidays… Great education system that discourages seeing the world.

One of our local schools (thankfully not too local) “Just three per cent of pupils leaving St Aldhelm’s Academy last summer scored the benchmark five A* – C GCSE grades, including English and maths.”. This is the real problem, not some kids exploring a French market and canoeing down a river, or climbing a mountain… Or learning to surf etc etc. Sort out a failing system and leave our family holidays alone you ****. Grab your headlines, pretend to do something, be tough on holidays AND the causes of holidays.

The fine system wont work…. The current fine is £50 per child…. Billy bloody bargain. The holiday I used to take to France was £500 in early June (still good swell season) and £2800 in August… Even with fines I am over £2000 better off and the surf would be much better too.

Lets apply this crap to a normal situation and go back to inner tubes… If you try and buy a tube for a fiver during term time, I will fine you 50p per tube for having the nerve to go against my authority and trying to have fun on a bike.

Just out of interest, how would you feel if the teacher pulled a sickie to take advantage of a cheap flight, or you bumped into them at Fort Bill ´cos they fancied seeing the race?

What this situation really needs is stunt-double kids. Poor kids, from rubbish schools who don’t bother counting them properly, coulsd attend in their place.

The middle class kids get their poncy holidays, and the poor kids impersonate them at their school, get some cash for their parents to spend on booze, fags, lottery tickets and sky TV, and a week at a better school. Everyone wins !

….oh and charlie, what if evryone took their kids out to take advantage of these cheap holidays? Would they stay cheap? Why not finish school a week early so everyone can go but not tell the nasty travel agents? But then it’s a conspiracy, isn’t it? Schools and travel agents working together 50/50. Your example only serves to show that the seller of the tubes (holidays) is at fault.

Just out of interest, how would you feel if the teacher pulled a sickie to take advantage of a cheap flight, or you bumped into them at Fort Bill ´cos they fancied seeing the race?

I wouldn’t be happy but if they’d put in a genuine request for holidays and it had been sanctioned it’ll be fine.

Blimey! We took our 2 Rhodes foe 2 weeks and one of which fell in term time. We toured the ancient sites,absorbed the culture and did a bit of beach & snorkeling.

Back at school they had a non-competitive sports day, a film and various other non curriculum based activity. I would suggest that they both increased their world view, and knowledge of a great civilisation. However, we received a letter from the Educational Welfare officer advising us that the school had dobbed us in for “unauthorised absence” – we had written 3 letters to school explaining but they refused to respond as the did not “authorise” the absence.

To add insult to injury the school was closed for strike action only a few days afterwards, of course that was over pensions not the welfare and education of children. This was then followed by one teacher taking 3 weeks extended vacation to see family in the US.

Pot, kettle and mucky arse springs to mind!

Both my two are at the top of the top set (they don’t get this from me!) and when they have finished their work they are then told to find something to fill the remaining time – has been up to half an hour on too many occasions.

Perhaps if the school system was a little better organised and showed more interest in developing all their pupils abilities across the board, then parents may take their petty diktats with a little more seriousness.

The teacher gets how many weeks off a year? As said previously some people just can’t get time off themselves in the school holidays.

wrightyson: The ammouint of time is irrelevant. It’s all in school holiday time so if they want a holiday with their kids they have to go somewhere cheaper because during term time they have an obligation to educate your children. An obligation which should be backed up by the parents.

EDIT. But fair point. If people absolutely have no other option, fine. If it’s just for the sake of cheap flights etc. then it’s a little harder to justify.

All this does is give the failing ‘can’t make a decision to save my school life headteachers’ a get out of jail free card to carry out any active pro active management and punishes the decent heads, who previously considered each case on its merits a kick in the bollox / female genitals through increased numbers of unauthorised absences in the quality report.

Dogtoo – irrelevant. Teachers get paid to teach.

I’m guessing a lot of the people stating that the prices don’t change haven’t actually checked……
I’ve actually moved a business trip this year due to costs – guess what?…… The client is ACTUALLY taking their holiday then instead for the exact same reason.
Over £2k difference in our holiday for just a few weeks apart in timings.
Bonus is that we are able to work during the holidays now at a cost saving!
Both girls are in the top 2%, our eldest is already doing comprehensive school work 6mths before leaving junior school yet in the last year alone they have had over 12wks where they have had reduced lessons due to 2 school performances and an Xmas play. Was this caught up? Nope.
Were lessons kept going for those children NOT in any of the plays? Nope.

Over £2k difference in our holiday

😯
*wants to be adopted and taken on one of hammy’s holidays

As I’ve said previously I don’t agree with dragging a kid out for 2 weeks but I don’t see the issue with 3 days. I/We (mrs w’son) have a good insight to all this as she regularly helps out in the school, at least one full day a week sometimes two, she does this free of charge and purely to help. So when a kid is off i know nothing changes in the class they just carry on and said kid misses out on what is being taught!! That is the parents choice and I strongly believe as a responsible parent you can make that choice without your child suddenly becoming bottom of the class. There are far bigger issues to be tackled in schools such as useless teachers who shouldn’t be teaching, lack of discipline in class, and my biggest concern, (which does involve one of our children) class sizes. How one teacher can be expected to teach 36 kids at 10 yrs of age is beyond me, hence the reason the wife specifically targetted working in our daughters class!

Why exactly are people having a go at teachers here…? The amount of holidays they get has bugger all to do with the OP’s point.
TJ – go into the corner and have a talk with yourself…
Stoner – take your nipper to France, he’ll love it and if comes back with half a dozen phrases in French (nice ones!) then he’ll already be at the top of the class at that age.
Can we all agree not to vote for Gove next time we get the option?

The difference is I have an imperative for my occasional RLJ which is my safety and it impinges on on no one else

Until the day you get it wrong and are under the wheels of a lorry. Then it effects quite a lot of people.

Really what you are doing, assessing the situation and behaving how you feel is acceptable, is no different to Stoner.

I sympathise with cost issue – just check prices of skiing in 2nd week of January!!!

Quite a well balanced article in Torygraph today on this issue:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/9092612/At-my-free-school-the-end-of-term-will-be-too-good-to-miss.html

….While deterrents are a good and necessary part of any system, what is always more effective is the initial environment in which such decisions are taken. One of the reasons parents feel morally justified in taking their children out of school early is that they have learnt through years of experience that the last week of school at the end of term is often filled with games and movies, and that little actual learning takes place….Then the question becomes less about authorised absences and heads’ decisions, and more about what is going on in our classrooms.

Why are teachers choosing to put on films instead of spending those last few crucial lessons of the term setting end-of-term assessments, benchmarking children and informing them of how they can improve next term? …At our free school, Michaela Community School, which hopes to open in Tooting, south London, in September, we will have expectations for behaviour. Those last few lessons at the end of term will be for testing and benchmarking. Children want to know how they are doing in comparison to their peers. Competition motivates all children, whatever their standing in the class. They also want to know that the work they have been doing all term was for something. The teacher can go through common errors, and children will be given an armoury of tools to start the following term better equipped to improve their standing in the class. The teacher then has time, over the holiday, to think about how to tackle the specific needs of each class: needs that have been highlighted by the assessments.

When the end of term is treated as an extremely important part of the child’s development, suddenly the idea of having them miss this time isn’t so attractive to parents. When children themselves are motivated to take part in this crucial and rather exciting event, parents will find their child refusing to leave town early, for fear of not being able to demonstrate their intellectual prowess on the academic battlefield.

Now if all schools did this, perhaps the problem would be solved without the need for politicians to get involved, but that is probably wishful thinking in all regards.

Not a popular view here but I think Gove is right. You take your child out of school to go on holiday you are showing disrespect to the teachers and telling your kid that it is OK to cut corners. That isnt a great lesson to teach them. I’m being a little sanctimonious maybe but it just feels dead wrong.

…..arent we all always banging on about the something for nothing culture that plagues us? Kid doesnt have to do the work and gets the holiday anyway. Doesnt matter if you are 5 or 15yrs, they need to learn that they have to graft.

Doesnt matter if you are 5 or 15yrs, they need to learn that they have to graft.

I think all it teaches is that attendance is more important than performance.

It’s like working for a company where how hard you work is judged by the hours you do not the results you get

I think all it teaches is that attendance is more important than performance

mmmmmm. It says “I’m going to do what I like, Jack.”