Thetford trails.. wtf!

Cheers Stumpy, appreciated.

I mostly stayed Brandon side and found quite a few twisty skinny singketrack sections, quite enjoyed myself. I was really there trying to link together a way across to the Icknield way.

The perimeter of Centre Parcs is a bit Shymalans The Village….

The biggest problem with Thetford is the lack of racing (more an FC issue than any lack of willingness from organisers), the wild trails are disappearing at a rate knots! When the Winter Series & D2D and MSG were able to use the trails they would be ridden for months after the event, keeping them in good condition but not overused. Since racing ceased they do not get ridden enough and year on year they are vanishing.

The marked trails are a whole ‘nother issue and it’s all been chewed over, spat out and chewed over again … and spat out again, ultimately until different factions quit stamping their feet demanding the moon on a stick, pull together, work with the FC** and commit to recognising the limitations of the site, then the subject will come around every year or so with the same outcomes ….. or the other sites take up the slack and HL is left to the families but obviously HL must have appeal, otherwise why all the noise?

** The FC (FE) need someone committed to working with the mtb community but with opposing demands from various user groups, ecology, wildlife, archaeology, not to mention commercial, it’s a tall order.

I read some winging on one of the Facebook pages a year or so ago complaining that they couldn’t get people their on weekdays to to help build and maintain trails.
I thought that was a bit rich given the car park is not exactly cheap. It has been lacking investment for years now. My 5 year old rode the blue in her first go out. Partly because we couldn’t find the signs for the green!

If you were volunteering parking would not be charged.

I read some winging on one of the Facebook pages a year or so ago complaining that they couldn’t get people their on weekdays to to help build and maintain trails.

Not surprised. Some of the senior Timber members are known to be a little abrasive on some of those threads.

It’s an interesting and complex topic. Some people have worked for years at improving the relationship with the FE at Thetford (such as Moe). There’s definitely an apathy problem in the volunteer trail crew membership who won’t work with baby steps in the right direction, but FE don’t seem to want to give the crew the option anymore. Some years ago I went on build days with 10 people and a Kanga to repair sections. Now, FE close a section and get a contractor in who doesn’t appear to know how to build a trail.

Compare with Cannock where the local trail crew has been allowed to grow and build entire sections.

Then again there is progress in some ways. When I was last on a build day at Thetford they still were not allowed to import rocks, but now there are some sections which are either armoured or techified with slabs.

but now there are some sections which are either armoured or techified with slabs.

During my recent visit there were 3-4 bombholes which would take about 10 seconds each to drop in & ride out, plus 1 x 20m section of training that has some rocks embedded, so you’d ride along some rocks with about a 4″ step down. Seriously, I was on my HR and barely noticed, Jnr at 12yo rode them easily on a 26er 70 degrees HA, 100mm forked race HT without hesitation AND got bored on the Beast – the Rock to roll over at the beginning of the Red Trail is likely its most difficult obstacle.

I stick to my case – the advertised descriptions are not appropriate to driving to Thetford and spending £4-8 on parking for the average Mountain Biker.

Absolutely, my at-the-time 9/11 year olds happily rode the red. I’ve pointed out before that the blue/red/black descriptions are FE boilerplate:

https://www.forestryengland.uk/article/mountain-bike-trail-grades-and-safety

Arguably the red should be graded as blue with optional red bits, which is fairly common practise at FE sites. I’d totally endorse this, eg Thetford’s ‘red’ is way easier than say Cardinham’s blue with red bits, even if you only ride the blue.

Thetford does have a *huge* number of relative newcomers riding on the trails, which is part of the problem the FE are trying to solve. By putting that big rock at the entrance and grading it red instead of blue the number of absolute newbies is reduced, because it’s the absolute newbies who *will* crash on what we consider to be a trivial feature. Last summer when I was riding someone managed to over-the-bars crash on one of the armoured pits which could have gone quite badly wrong.

While I agree that the trails are categorised incorrectly, I think it is easy to look at these trails with your ‘rufty-tufty mountain biker head’ on & think they are boring & easy.

But when I first started riding there around 20 years ago, I would come a cropper probably at least once every time I rode there.
I’ve taken a mate round who fell off several times & really struggled after a while to keep up as there are very little options to recover – it is pedal pedal pedal & it does tire you out, even though there’s not a lot of elevation.
I also went with a couple of colleagues from work a couple of years back who are relatively fit guys. I went off at what I considered to be a steady pace & every time I looked back to check they were with me, they were nowhere to be seen. We sessioned a couple of the bombholes & other ‘technical’ sections that they did not have the confidence to clear first time around.

On top of that, almost every time I have raced there I have seen at least one person who has fallen off & injured themselves, or messed up a corner & smashed themselves into a tree.
And let’s not forget the roadies who enter the Winter Series races without any ounce of off-road bike handling skills, fly past on the fire roads & then skitter & skid about on the singletrack sections like newborn giraffes trying to stand for the first time.

Some of the senior Timber members are known to be a little abrasive on some of those threads.

tbh, although not helpful, the number of times these (particular to High Lodge) issues have been explained by those of us that have some knowledge and then get bombarded with “yes buts…..”, “well **** em’ we’ll do it anyway” etc etc etc or (in some ways worse), “yes, we will step up” ….. followed by nothing. It’s hardly surprising patience and willingness to help and guide wears a bit thin.

Ultimately, it can be done but it would take time, patience and the united front of all ‘enthusiast’ mountain bikers …….

stumpy you may want to read my posts again. I went to Thetford years ago when it was much more natural so have that to compare, and my 12yo got bored on the Red. I’ve also raced – and fallen off while doing so – at Thetford.

I’m no “rufty tufty” MTBer either, and acknowledge that Thetford should have trails for all to enjoy, including kids and families not involved in MTBing as rule, but the Trail descriptions as posted are incorrect, and they create an issue whereby the target audience for those descriptions likely your average weekend warrior who’d pay the parking, buy a coffee and a bacon roll and maybe even buy something from the bike shop – will only feel like they’ve wasted their time and won’t return.

The first thing I said was that the trails are categorised incorrectly, which seems to be what you are saying…

The trails used to be much more natural, but equally were a sloppy mess for large stretches during much of the autumn, winter & spring (Oct to April inclusive) with massive puddles that never got the chance to dry out & the trails used to get wider and wider as people sought diversions on drier ground.

Most of the sanitisation of the trails that I can think of are where the trail has been lifted from the surrounding ground and a hard surface put down.

Perhaps drop the people at Thetford Forest an email outlining your concerns about the grading of the trails and effect it might have on putting people off coming back?

I ride there quite a lot, mostly with my daughters (5yo/3yo) as a beginner mtber. The blue at Whinlatter last week was a bit of a surprise for both me and the 5yo! Thetford’s worth the 45 minute drive and the season ticket as its away from cars, friendly pumptrack, has a good park and lots of bail out options when I haven’t fed them enough snacks. I’m not sure I’d bother going on my own, as I’d probably just do a road ride, local bridleways or go to pheonix or chicksands.

Most of the sanitisation of the trails that I can think of are where the trail has been lifted from the surrounding ground and a hard surface put down.

A degree of this has happened at Bedgebury too. However it has turned the trail centre into something that can be used all year round.

A couple of years back, when I was staying at Center Parcs, I went over to High Lodge over 3 early mornings. I wasn’t expecting much to be honest, but I just rode it as fast as I could on my hardtail, and quite enjoyed myself. Quite a decent work out too.

However, I might have been high on the fact I’d broken out of Center Parcs for a while.

TLDR: If Thetford is too easy you’re not riding it fast enough.

I’ve been riding here sporadically since 1995. I’ve raced in loads of the winter series over the past 25 years as well as the 6hr enduro stylees, a couple of Nps races and several d2ds -blah blah. The trails are massively sanitised and don’t really stack up to others around the country.

No the trails aren’t accurately labelled but as people have rightly said – you get families on shoppers without helmets riding the wrong way round the routes so IMO the FC are right in their “lowest common denominator” approach.

Having said that some of the gravel and “improvements” makes the singletrack lethal.  the berms and their version of trail features are poorly placed and can encourage accidents, launching the unaware into tree stumps etc. – especially as these features are increasingly poorly maintained. I struggle with that, given the price I pay for a season ticket at high lodge.

There is enough gradient in the forest to create something more worthwhile but there is a lack of tenacity to get anything done as the FC is wary of injuries and curmudgeons that lack vision. I can see how that malaise created the sanitised version I regularly ride.

The Brandon side is increasingly overgrown, sadly I only ever really knew the trails there courtesy of D2D courses courtesy of Paul Nibb, again I can see how getting official trails developed there are a no-no from Elveden’s legal standpoint.

Despite all this I consider myself lucky that I can go and mindlessly blat round trails, relatively unhindered by joe public, Twisted Oaks and Phoenix don’t seem to offer the same sort of XC burn from what I’ve seen (happy to be corrected on that) and despite all the whinging it is better protected against winter weather and increased numbers.

It was good enough for Nick Craig  and certainly provides a challenge when you’ve been in the red for 90 minutes or it’s 3am :-).

I’ve pointed out before that the blue/red/black descriptions are FE boilerplate

Yep, and how they’re applied varies from site to site. At sites where there’s a lot of ‘casual’ users, they tend to grade upwards compared to sites that are more dedicated MTBing venues.

For example, Cannock Chase recently regraded the original boardwalk on Follow the Dog as black. I didn’t ride it for a couple of weeks, as I assumed that changes had been made to it which would take it above my comfort level. But no – presumably the FE finally decided that too many people had come a cropper, so had regraded it.

I understand it – at busy multi-user sites, you get a lot of casual riders going for an explore, so the grading is set up to scare them off, almost. It makes it awkward judging what to ride if you travel about though. Depending on where I’m riding, there are blue-graded sections that I struggle with, and black grades features that I can easily ride.

Thetford sounds promising though! 😛

TLDR: If Thetford is too easy you’re not riding it fast enough.

This is used for every crap trail anywhere. Can anyone point me to any trail which is more fun the slower you go?

(Btw, I quite enjoy Thetford. It’s decent enough for a spin on a cross bike.)

This is used for every crap trail anywhere. Can anyone point me to any trail which is more fun the slower you go?

I do get your point, gave me a chuckle. But as one of the proposers of this point regarding thetford, I think the missing bit is that it is your fitness (or in Krytons case, fitness of his young kid) that is preventing you reaching an enjoyable speed, not your bravery or technical skills.

But try and tell any MTBer they need to get fitter to improve their riding and they go into a rant about strava obsessed, head down boring roadies…

I think the missing bit is that it is your fitness (or in Krytons case, fitness of his young kid) that is preventing you reaching an enjoyable speed, not your bravery or technical skills.

That is debatable though. We wanted to/ go for some technical fun, not an anerobic session. The reading of the red description plus my prior albeit old experience would have be believe the Thetford red trail is technical challenging enough to have fun without having to push my heart rate into zone 5, if jnr went at a decent lick. And thats of course when it all becomes subjective.

godihatehills……The XC loop at Twisted Oaks is superb and well worth trying. Constant hills and pedalling/technical stuff something not expected in East Anglia.

Twisted oaks and Hadleigh are fun but both are a bit short for a morning’s ride. You can put together a 3-4 hour ride in thetford pretty easily when it isn’t nettle season.

I wish the XC wannabe roadies wouldn’t choose Saturday mid morning for their max effort lap record attempts while I’m trying to encourage my 5yo down 39 steps or she’s mashing up the other side at walking pace though.

Personally I would be over the moon just getting out on the bike more, in more locations and have nowhere nearby that has trees left so that alone would be a novelty! We all have different expectations though 🙂

In the days of endless GoPro footage of every other ride out there… is the content of a trail/ location really a surprise? Certain places may be poorly built/ not worth the money/ not your thing but a quick YouTube search usually gives a pretty good flavour.

I think the point about racing is valid- the coup in getting Elveden to allow their property to be used for race routes was really something, there were some lovey bits created for D2D over there. That style of trail will never be sign posted on the opposite side of the road- without wishing to sound like some guarded territorial surfer- we just need to go seek out stuff deeper into the forest to avoid the family rental squads and the ire of the FC.

Thetford Racing have announced today that there’ll be no Winter Series this year for a variety of reasons, which is a bit of a disappointment!

I went over yesterday evening, went round the BCP side, then across to do a few bits of the black red, finishing in the dark. Saw just a couple of other riders, and a few deer.

Terrible, had a completely awful time. Definitely don’t go.