The wonderful world of work

No, there’s no reception girl to be in awe of my awesome personality and good looks.

Males can also work in reception you know.

You mean men can fancy me?

My god, so much wasted opportunity. 😆

And the girls are probably older than you.

How much experience is needed for commercial lab monkey? Do you have a relevant degree, year in industry? If you want paid lab work try soil and groundwater analysis or water treatment.

don’t feel entirely used to how the real world of work operates

I was mid 30’s when i first worked in a office and had to learn office politics
It can be strange but there is some good advice on here

No offence taken re other thread.

Cheers Mike, didn’t have a year in industry. I was finding it hard to find industrial lab monkey positions, especially explaining away a 6 month gap after my first research based job. So the idea was that I do this, then either apply for academic or industrial jobs.

My background is in the Biomedical sciences.

I was mid 30’s when i first worked in a office and had to learn office politics
It can be strange but there is some good advice on here

That’s good to know, really I quite like everyone on here and find the place amazingly informative.

Don’t know if they are going still but srg (science recruitment group) were worth a look (last time I used them you were probably at junior school). With anything unpaid make sure you ask yourself what you are getting from it, was the interview feedback that you lacked experience? Hard to say if you are looking at grad positions, are the skills you are gaining relevant?

Yes, I’m working in a molecular biology laboratory. The work I’m doing is actually far more relevant than what I was being paid to do before. I’ve been troubleshooting a PCR protocol, purifying dna, culturing, cloning, gaining insights into x-ray crystallography etc etc.

was the interview feedback that you lacked experience

Mostly, even when it comes to shortlisting.

Personally,

My stance is that I’m not paid to take crap off people, put up with their tantrums and general abuse and bullying. Life’s too short for that nonsense.

I don’t mind ‘banter’ and to a degree you have to roll with it, but if someone was screaming and calling me a see you next Tuesday in front of my colleagues, and meant it, they’d be explaining their actions to HR before the day was out. Even if I am.

Acceptable in the industry my arse, the industry needs to sort itself out. The same excuse used to be trotted out to justify racism, sexism and homophobia; are we still living in the 70s?

But we’re you applying for graduate positions or for general jobs that require you to hit the ground running.

And sorry but life lessons, don’t just throw technical words in to make it sound more impressive/important. I’m just here having a beer after ringfenceing the unicorn in Jakarta having dropped a bombastic move on delivery of visualisation of the good.

But we’re you applying for graduate positions or for general jobs that require you to hit the ground running.

And sorry but life lessons, don’t just throw technical words in to make it sound more impressive/important.

I applied for some of the big grad schemes the last year, unfortunately I didn’t get any. I’m going to be trying them again this year. Honestly though, technical experience is what counts and they have to be in the right area. These are all techniques that seem to be commonly listed in job postings.
There are other softer skills that I’m learning, such as how to plan my own work etc.

I’m just here having a beer after ringfenceing the unicorn in Jakarta having dropped a bombastic move on delivery of visualisation of the good.

Lol….what?

Yes but otherwise relevant to posting in here unless you want to sound more impressive. My comment was to show that.

I guess Mike, it wasn’t really meant to do that. It was in the off chance that you were a scientist and you knew that these techniques are what a lot of employers asks for.

A misunderstanding that’s all.

I might start looking at corporate roles that need people with good analytical/quantitative skills now.

QC lab monkey?

I have no idea why anyone would want to be a lab monkey in any shape or form. You basically become an inefficient machine with a highish error rate*, or at least to management you do.

There must be another job out there that you can do, I fell into the lab monkey role to get away from the UK and I’m currently stuck in the rut wanting to leave. Don’t do it.

* – I make 1 mistake a year, I’m allowed 2 before I get no payrise.

Being honest it comes across as cocky. Something to be avoided. Did you get feedback on grad schemes, taking time out post uni is easily explained with words like travel and gap year etc. It’s a good thing as it means you might have got it out of your system and not be about to do it soon. Also your other half is in the same place as you? Foreign partners scare employers, they think you will be off at some point. I eventually proved my old boss right.

Being honest it comes across as cocky. Something to be avoided. Did you get feedback on grad schemes, taking time out post uni is easily explained with words like travel and gap year etc. It’s a good thing as it means you might have got it out of your system and not be about to do it soon. Also your other half is in the same place as you? Foreign partners scare employers, they think you will be off at some point. I eventually proved my old boss right.

Thanks Mike. Yeah, my wife is in the same place as me roughly. She has 3 months left to go at university. So we are currently living together.

My employers don’t have to know about my wife, my last employer did so I’ll try to hide it next time.

I make 1 mistake a year, I’m allowed 2 before I get no payrise.

😯

Are all the big pharma companies like this?

Surgeons and fighter pilots make more mistakes per year than that.

Anyway….

Yes, I’m working in a molecular biology laboratory. The work I’m doing is actually far more relevant than what I was being paid to do before. I’ve been troubleshooting a PCR protocol, purifying dna, culturing, cloning, gaining insights into x-ray crystallography etc etc.

With all due respect, even with a few months’ experience you won’t be classed as any more ‘experienced’ than a recent MSc or placement student. Lots of big labs have shut in recent times so there is a glut of well qualified, highly experienced (10+ years) lab staff out there. Molecular biology skills are transferable to pretty much everything nowadays and what you’re doing isn’t anything high level that a man in the street couldn’t pick up in a few weeks. The knowledge behind it is a different thing, of course, that’s what you need to stay on top of.

I’d use this post simply to decide whether lab work is for you or not rather than expecting it to be a portal to something else. It takes a certain kind of person to work in a lab environment, many just aren’t cut out for it, no matter how clever they are. Just like many academics aren’t cut out for management 😀

(Lab manager, Russell Group uni)

I was going to do 6 months? Is that enough to at least gain an edge for positions that advertise experience as “desirable”? It’s better than doing nothing anyway.

The knowledge behind it is a different thing, of course, that’s what you need to stay on top of.

Luckily I am putting the work into context, so I’m engaging my brain as well carrying out processes.

Thanks LS, I’ll think about your post a little bit more.

Good point what is your actual career plan?

Chemistry drop out, Ex polymer R&D, environmental testing, nuclear air pollution R&D, developer and now consultant 🙂

Never want to see a lab coat again…

Also don’t stop applying for other stuff, don’t wait until you have the experience you think they want as those jobs will be filled by the time you get the experience.

Well it was going to be, research tech/assistant > PhD (once my wife was earning over 18.6k) > Postdoc.

Maybe not now.

I will be less stressed if she gets a grad scheme position that will sponsor her to stay.

Also don’t stop applying for other stuff, don’t wait until you have the experience you think they want as those jobs will be filled by the time you get the experience.

I have been 🙂

On paper I’m still a technician, yet I’m on a better salary than all the postdocs, permanent contract, and the same pension scheme as the academics. I also still get to do the ‘fun’ stuff in the lab and although admin/management is now a big part of the job, it isn’t anything like as stressful for me as it is for the academics.

Don’t discount technician as a career – it might be preferable to the postdoc treadmill.

Is postdoc a career? Apologies if it is but really? I thought your missus was so. Each high flying business bird flying round Europe taking you with her?

She was Mike, for one year on her internship. They liked her so much that they asked her to do that. Now you’ve reminded me of that I’m less worried as they could sponsor her.

Anyway, Im sat in the pub now with a very nice belgian beer waiting for the train to get back home. Life is good. 🙂

I make 1 mistake a year, I’m allowed 2 before I get no payrise.

Are all the big pharma companies like this?

Well, the 3 I have worked for have been, you work in a Lab testing stuff worth a fortune – it’s well worth finding out exactly where the mistake/failure happened to know if your product is releasable or not (and you are regularly checked by external groups to make sure you are doing this too).

As you work in a lab it’s rare that you cannot find the true root cause (I am one of the best in the lab at the bench despite not enjoying it any more, but I have work very hard at it – currently at no mistakes this year).

**** me, people make small pipetting mistakes etc all the time in academic labs. Not sure I’d want to work with that hanging over my head. Do you mean mistakes like the odd pipetting error or false positive/negative results?

Anyway, I got the closest I was going to get to an apology today so I’m a bit more positive.

Sorry, late to reply.

A pipetting mistake is the easiest to discover (along with incorrectly mixed solutions) in the investigation (all qc labs will run a pre-investigation to rule out equipment/prep mistake – inc pipetting/mixing/dissolution), before they have to look into the more esoteric stuff.

That’s a big black mark on your name. Depending on where you are you’ll be doing between 10-40 samples a day, occasionally with repeated serial dilutions (2ndary manufacturing with multiple dose levels are a nightmare for this).

I’ve learnt to have some very set rules/procedures for prepping samples – and there are times I throw a lot of stuff away because I’m not 100% happy with that mornings work and start over.

As I said – you become an inefficient machine.

I wont ask who you work for, but as a line manager in a GMP QC release lab, to expect that error rate is bonkers.
1 or 2 mistakes causing repeat work in a couple of months is fair, a year is nuts.
Mind you I work in biologics which is naturally error prone anyway as the techniques are a little more interesting that the little white pill labs.
That said within a QC release lab the processes should be efficient and effective enough that the rate of error should be minimal.
All I can say is I wouldn’t want to work in your lab, and I probably could hit that error rate (even though I am mainly confined to my desk now with paperwork)

Tricky but doable – with things as they are, if you want a pay rise you get the job done perfectly, sustainable RFT and that.

You just have to really concentrate on the accurate and precise sections, always aim for 100.00% and so far I’m golden. I try to stay on (volunteer :blush:) the non-routine complex stuff that no-one likes because there are less samples/preparations to worry about. It also helps to know procedures perfectly so you know when your heading into reportable deviation territory.

Actually, thinking about it, we switched over to normal distribution payrises a while ago so the 2 mistakes might still get you a payrise if someone is making 3-4 a year.

I never knew “no mistakes” existed. Crazy.

It is an unattainable target. Would expect that 95% RFT is a good target but 100% RFT is just nuts, mind you if using a LIMS system with ELN’s then its closer.
I suspect that within my group we are on about 5-10% analyst error on a yearly rate.

I’m talking about mistakes leading to deviations – not “no mistakes”. However a pippetting error will lead to a deviation so you really don’t want to do them, it’s not hard to pipette, it’s doing loads and keeping concentration that is.

I’m surprised that as a manager that you don’t have RFT figures, one of our KPI’s is RFT (split into LROT/paperwork/testing). Maybe I’m out of the loop a bit as our place is mental for “lean” and everything is recorded in a metric somewhere. Makes it hard to hide if your not up to scratch.

Ok, that makes more sense.
In which case no mistakes leading to deviations is much closer to what our expectations are.
To be fair very few of our issues are pipetting errors, but then thats what you get with some assays having an inbuilt 20% failure rate. Biologics for you….
Our KPI’s are a bit knackered at the minute (call it a change of senior management and a major re-assessment of the group).
We are in the middle of a pretty major change in everything, but its fun to be involved in, and validates a lot I have been saying in the year or so I have been there.

Maybe it’s because I’m working in an academic lab where we are trying to get things to work that haven’t been done before, so we do a lot of troubleshooting – as such I have yet to be able to work out my error rate. I’m pretty sure I could hit 95% RFT and I’ve yet to have an error that led to a deviation since I’ve worked in a lab.

Still, I don’t think I’d want that hanging over my head. It would have to depend on the workload, if I’m going to have to do a daft amount of assays for weeks on end with a long time spent at the bench without access to water then I’m going to make a mistake at some point unless I dose myself up to my eyeballs on adderall and snort a few lines of coke.

Not my idea of fun