The Annual Running thread – beginners/ultras/whatever

So, I’ve got my first half marathon coming up at the end of June and was wondering if any of the good runny folk on here can offer any good advice on nutrition / snacks to carry round with me? If at all?

I’ve not really run for long enough to bother yet, but I didn’t want to get caught out on the day. My longest training run will only be about 17k so thought I’d take some snacks with me to see if they help / make a difference.

I’ve never been a fan of things like Gels or anything too artificial when I’m on the bike but figured some dried fruit or a Nakd bar wouldn’t be too much of a faff to stuff in a pocket?
Any tips or pointers gratefully received 🙂

@mrwhippy, you may struggle to hold much down when running with any pace. I can eat normal food when running slow, but at half marathon pace it’s gels all the way.
I’d normally do 2 for a fast half, 6 miles and 9 miles.
Not sure if that helps.

Thanks @lunge , perhaps that’s the way to go as the thought of chewing my way through some food whilst trying to breath doesn’t sound good!

With regards to peaking I knocked 3 minutes off my previous time on the Fairfield Horseshoe fell race the other week, both occasions it was a Championship race, 10 years apart.

and was wondering if any of the good runny folk on here can offer any good advice on nutrition / snacks to carry round with me? If at all?

I was about to ask much the same. I’ve been doing 15-18km runs on a couple of Shot Blocks but feel that’s not enough.

For a half marathon I’d probably take just the one gel, and take it about an hour in ideally just before a water station. If you’re not a fan of gels you could just stick a handful of chewy sweets in your pocket and start eating them at about the same point.

Standard advice: try the gels (or sweets) in training before the big day!

So, I’ve got my first half marathon coming up at the end of June and was wondering if any of the good runny folk on here can offer any good advice on nutrition / snacks to carry round with me? If at all?

A little and often would be my advice, say 20g of carbs (an energy gel) every 20-30 minutes. Some folks find gels difficult to digest so definitely try them before race day – I prefer the isotonic ones better as you don’t need to invest with water. If running at effort, it can be tricky chewing any type of dry food without water.

Thanks for the advice so far, I’m going to try a few things over the next few training runs to see what works best. I’m quite happy to go for a few hours without fuel whilst on my bike or in the surf but I think I’d be silly not to have something for the half.

Anything ‘solid’ (e.g. flapjack, bananas, sandwhiches) are for long slow / steady runs when you are going to stop and eat, or moving very slowly. Its difficult to not choke when racing, even on gels sometimes. Shot bloks are ok, but tend to be a bit fiddlier than gels, and require chewing, which means you either risk choking on them, or get very out of breath, depends how hard you’re pushing.

I’m experimenting with putting a load of gels in to a small, locking soft-flask (150ml from Decathlon). This is because sometimes a whole gel can be too much, or the wrappers can be fiddly to open. The danger is that you consume all your gels too quickly.

I don’t eat anything for a half, maybe if I was going to be over 2h I’d think differently but it’s too high intensity for me.

I did once have a couple of jelly babies in a hm as a dry run for upcoming marathon, nearly choked and had to slow right down to recover, bit embarrassing as it was right next to a marshal.

As with all these things it is what suits you. I fuel in HM’s, usually a gel about 35-40 mins in and then 35-40 mins again after that.
As others have said, find what works for you on training runs. You may find a pocket full of jelly babies will work for you, or firing in a gel is easier.
Try different brands of gel and flavours too. I can’t stand SIS gels, my mate swears by them. I save my favourite gel flavours for when i’m in races and feeling like crap

Well, that was a thing. My 5th Jura fell race done and although it’s the least fit I’ve been it wasn’t my worst time. Quite happy all things considered.

Can I ask a shoe question?
Thought I’d have a crack at some road 10k – half marathons.
I’ve done a half when I was new to running 18 months ago and managed 1.30. My current parkrun pb is 17.46.
I like to run on my forefoot but will consciously ‘get lazy’ on longer runs to allow for some heel strike. I supinate slightly.
I’m currently wearing Clifton 8s which are great but they’re getting on a bit and I fancy trying a race day shoe. Are carbon plate shoes the only option these days for a fast shoe? I liked the idea of a simple racing flat but there doesn’t seem to be many out there.

Are carbon plate shoes the only option these days for a fast shoe? I liked the idea of a simple racing flat but there doesn’t seem to be many out there.

There are loads out there – maybe not 100% “flat”, but with a 4mm drop or similar. I use New Balance Fuelcell, for example.

Are carbon plate shoes the only option these days for a fast shoe? I liked the idea of a simple racing flat but there doesn’t seem to be many out there.

There’s no question that old style racing flats are less prevalent than they once were. Mainly as they’re not as fast as carbon shoes and not as comfortable either.

There are the odd one out there, but they’re few and far between. The New Balance FuelCell SuperComp Pacer is low stack but still has a carbon plate and 25mm of stack.

Your best bet if you really want that kind is shoe is to look 2nd hand, I’d be looking at Nike Streak 7’s as a start.

If not, look at lower stack carbon plated shoes. The Puma Deviate Nitro (version 1) os a good shout and is dirt cheap on Start Fitness.

Nike also do a flatter version of their super shoes – supposedly aimed at 5-10k runners. Possibly not as fast as the thick soled ones.

The new vaporfly is ridiculously light – the pair is barely heavier than one of my pegasus that I’ve been using recently. I’ve just got a pair of VF which I’ll use in a 10k race on Monday.

Yep, most manufacturers do a lower stack shoe aimee at 5/10k work, but most also have some kind of plate. Nike Streakfly and Adidas Takumi Sen 8 or 9 are the 2 that spring to mind.

Something like a Vaporfly has 40mm of stack and weight loads less than your standard daily trainer.

Pretty much anything will be quicker than a Clifton (well maybe not a Bondi) but it would be a big jump down to a racing flat. I’ve done a lot of racing in flats, back in ye olde day, and while they can be quick they can also get you in a lot of trouble if you get tired and your biomechanics break down, your feet start to hurt and so on. That’s where the carbon plate shoes really help you.
What about trying a Mach5? A racer trainer

I plumped for an Adidas adzero Pro which was heavily discounted. I’ll see how the brand works for me then there’s a fair few different models at sensible prices to look at in the future.

I know it’s far from a flat btw. It just caught my eye and if the style works for me then there’s other more traditional options available.

Thing I’m finding is that you just have to throw a few eggs at a wall and see what sticks. Currently I see my Clifton 8s as my super fast, I’m going to kick ass kinda shoe. To me it feels light and springy, despite being almost 2 years old. I use it at track night as well as on club runs and enjoy trouncing the super shoe gang. It’s all about the legs really isn’t it?

It’s 98% about the legs and if you just want to train and race hard and do your best, that’s fine. But these days it is also 2% about the shoes and they really do make a difference if you care about small margins.

Race shoes might seem pricy but they are certainly cheap compared to bikes!

Race shoes might seem pricy but they are certainly cheap compared to bikes!

The £200> are clearly expensive however running shoes themselves are actually not very expensive at all. Some time ago I dug out an old Bourne sports flyer that we used to get in stores, at races and with the Athletics Weekly. In the early 80’s when I started competitive running a particularly popular shoe at the time was the Reebok Aztec (it was slightly before the much better US shoes were widely available in the UK) There were alternatives but these were considered the best training shoe for distance runners at that time. I can assure you they were crap, they had almost zero cushioning and even looking at them makes my shins ache. We are spoiled today and even cheaper shoes are 100 times better than the Aztec. They would cost £104 today after inflation!

I think it’s the £200+ price tag plus the fact that they are only recommended for a couple of hundred miles use that seems a bit vulgar.
I was genuinely a bit gutted when after leaving the arms race of cycling, I discovered that carbon had sent running down the same path.

I for one am grateful for carbon plated shoes, mainly because I have arthritis in my Toe joint which makes it painful to flex. I am too old and slow to get any performance benefit but it does allow me to keep running. I realise I am not their target demographic 🙂

Yeah. I’ve given a mental shrug and look forward to when I get to race in super shoes. I bet if you’re on a good day it feels amazing.
It’s why I’ve come to love track night with my running club. Even in Cliftons you feel so fast and springy.

Shoe prices are silly, but only if you buy them at full price.

I’ve had 4 pairs of Nike Vaporfly’s, the same shoes as the fella who won the London Marathon wore. Full price they’re £240 ish but I’ve never paid more than £140, often less. I can get 300 miles out of them so I don’t think that’s bad value for a high performance product.

There are always deals to be had for non-race shoe too. Lots of manufacturers have a 2 year cycle on their models so the 2022 model will often be the same as the 2023 bar a slight change to the upper. Saucony Ride 16 and 15 are very similar, Nike Pegasus 39 and 40 are similar too. So just buy last years.

Also never buy when the new model is released. The new asics Nimbus came out early this year, it was £165 new. They’re great shoes, but I waited a few months and picked up a pair for £110 which is still not cheap but is a lot more palatable.

Finally, look at other manufacturers that aren’t the big names. I’ve said a few times that Puma for instance offer ridiculous value shoes, Reebok are the same. My latest purchase was a pair Puma Velocity Nitro 2’s, a really nice daily trainer for £45.

Follow EDDBUD on YouTube, he puts out a monthly running shoe bargains vid, you’ll see some good options there.

Cheers lunge. I’ll probably get another pair of clifton 8s as my everyday shoe at some point. They’re down to about £70 now and I really like them.

In preparation for the Serpent Trail 50 in a month’s time I’ve developed a crippling back injury.

It wasn’t too bad initially because whilst standing, sitting, bending, or laying down all sent waves of pain across my lower/mid back, running and cycling actually seemed to help.

Unfortunately running has shifted from the helps category to the hurts category. So I’m now training for an ultra by singlespeeding around on my gravelbike.

The saving grace remains the extremely generous cut-off time which requires a 3.6kph average – that means I could walk it in it’s entirety.

Mid-season ‘see where we are’ Ultra-type event at the weekend – Dalby’s Inferno

Basically: A 5km trail lap with ~100m of climb, starting on the hour every hour for 10 hours, so Ultra distance but with enforced rest breaks so long as you were under the hour. If you were over, you sat the next lap out but could rejoin up until the 9th lap. You could only run the 10th  – which is the only officially timed ‘race’ lap – if you’d completed all 9 previous laps.

Wasn’t intending to ‘race’ any of it, it was just a bit of a benchmarking event to see how my legs were and how they’d cope with the distance (and, given the weekend we had, the heat!). Paced everything steadily and used the downtime between laps to drink, eat and stretch. Turns out I’m an absolute model of consistency when it comes to endurance running pace – about 8mins/km and I can trot away all day – these are my lap times:

(Intermediates are the downtime between running laps, seemed like the best way to record…)

I knew I’d be walking some sections – the laps were basically one big down then a big back up rather than undulations – so over the first few laps I set some marker points of “I start walking for this hill at that tree, and I start running again at that signpost” etc, and I stuck to them rigidly in the later laps, which helped loads. While I’m not at all bothered with what positions were, I know started near the back of the pack each time and tended to pass a good few people just by being disciplined and hiking with a bit of purpose on the climbs.

All in all, a really fun day, nice course, good chat in the pit area between laps, and a nice concept for people who might be trying their first foray into Ultra distance – talked to quite a few who were doing that for the first time.

@pyro seeing your consistency is really satisfy to the bit of my brain that likes data and patterns

Cracking effort, especially in the heat over the weekend

Has anyone done the Ladybower 50km? https://www.runthroughtrails.com/ladybower-reservoir/ 

I’m looking for another 50km ultra to enter around that time of year and it’s only an hour from home for me

@spawnyofyorkshire – not done the event but know the area well. Some pretty chunky climbs in there but not a huge amount of elevation overall for an ultra I don’t think? A big bit of it is also along the main path around the reservoir which is flat but busy so doesn’t have much of a feel of “far from the madding crowd” so depends what you’re after.

@dashed – thanks that’s useful info. I am after something a bit more interesting than that so i’ll keep looking. I wasn’t particularly keen on such an early start on the ultra for that one anyway 🙂

Bit later in the year, but there’s a 50km at the Yorkshire Trod in October?

Yorkshire Trod

Is anyone actually out running in this? Mad dogs come to mind. Roll on September.

Club run last night. Just 2 of us in my group. Numbers were low overall though.

It was Barnsley Boundary relay race on Saturday and it was terribly hot for running. Unfortunately I  was on leg 9 which starts around 2:30pm so peak heat and the route itself is a rollercoaster with some steep ups and downs and little shade to shelter under. It wasn’t pleaseant and even though I’m not in top nick at the moment was 7 minutes slower than a couple of years ago. The conditions blunted the times somewhat.

Is anyone actually out running in this? Mad dogs come to mind. Roll on September.

I too was out with the club last night, 5 in my pace group, did a fairly easy 8 miles. It actually wasn’t too bad as the sun had gone my the time we got out and we just got soaked in warm rain.
I’m meant to be doing 10k with some efforts tonight and am not looking forward to that.
Event wise, it’s 10k season for me, along with the usual parkruns. Managed a 17:33 parkrun last weekend which I was very pleased with, and bodes well for some more serious 10k’s that I have in the next month or 2.

@pyro – I’m away that weekend, but an interesting one for sure

Is anyone actually out running in this? Mad dogs come to mind. Roll on September.

I did 23km on Saturday – up Glen Tromie and back. Bit of a breeze on the way up made it bearable enough.

Out for a club run last night, mid- thunderstorms. The humidity was worse than the heat. And the midge were out.

I’m off to do 12km above marsden tonight ahead of watching the star wheelers womens hillclimb

Not looking forward to the heat but it should be breezy on the tops.