The F1 Thread…

The new engine regs are a good thing, they’ve brought some genuine innovation back to the sport.

Personally I think they should relax the engine regs a little and just make it a fuel limited formula, that would see some innovation on performance vs consumption

I feel robbed of spectacle and the fact that there are only three engine suppliers in the sport

Four from next season with Honda and strong rumours BMW are looking at coming back.

Also the new Haas entry is rumoured to be using the Cosworth turbo engine, probably badged as something else.

Personally I think they should relax the engine regs a little and just make it a fuel limited formula, that would see some innovation on performance vs consumption

I thought that but there was a good article somewhere explaining why that wouldn’t have made for good races.

And just found this too which explains that there would have been safety issues too
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113141

“If you have no fuel flow limit, the fastest thing is to use a huge boost at the beginning of the straight and then lift off.

“There will be huge and very dangerous differences of speed [between cars] on the same lap, with a driving style that is not really F1.

And of course, the limit makes it more relevant to non-racing cars too as it means efficiency is key.

Found the article:

F1 2014: Why fuel flow is limited

With a set amount of fuel for a race, you have a pointless economy run before a wasteful dash to the flag, a set rate of flow promotes flat-out racing throughout, because hoarding fuel means extra weight sloshing in your tank. It would be totally unsatisfactory to have racing based on so many gallons for the race distance, so the only sensible alternative was to limit the maximum instantaneous power

If this instant fuel consumption was not managed, more power could be achieved simply by pumping more fuel into the cylinders, as was the case with the conventional turbo engines of the past and which is the exact opposite of what they wanted. But if the fuel flow was restricted, it would put the emphasis on producing performance from fuel-efficient turbochargers: something that could be directly transferred to production cars.

As a spectator, I’m not as concerned about the configuration of the engine itself as I am about the noise. Having been to Goodwood a few times, the V10 howl is a missing piece of the show for me – if the sound could be synthesised then I have no problem with watching a hybrid V6 turbo punting around the track, that compromise would be an acceptable one.

Thing is the vast majority of people don’t watch F1 at tracks but on TV so IMO the sound is something that people really close to the sport (eg actually attend) worry about more than they probably need to as their perspective is different.

Good article clubber. I get what you are saying and I agree. My point is if you have a total fuel limit (100kg) a flow rate limit in place then why not open up the other aspects of the engine regs?

1 turbo? 2 turbos? No turbos?
6 cyl? 8 Cyl? 4 cyl?
Wankels? Turbines?

I guess development costs would skyrocket if the engine formula was this open as manufacturers experimented with the best configurations, but it would guarantee some interesting engineering.

Moving aside from engines for the minute has anybody been watching the special documentaries Sky are running this week to commemorate 20 years since the passing of Senna?
Watched ‘The Last Team Mate’ last night. I never rated Hill as a driver but whenever he talks about the racing and how his big break came about he always seems genuinely humble, even when describing the events of the last race of 94.
Was also good to see and hear from Ratzenbergers team mate David Brabham.
Well worth a watch IMO.

EDIT ~ Just spotted a thread on this further down the page…ignore me

Thing is most of the configurations are well known so it’s likely they’d all end up with the same thing anyway. This way, they have PUs that are broadly similar to what road cars have. They did discuss V4s actually but it was deemed that that was just not F1 enough.

+1 richmtb

again here we are on about costs, the reason for the tight engine regs was to reduce cost, but its all just been transferred onto Aero, winglets, suspension and bench testing.

i think i would have preferred a semi-open engine regs, and very tight aero regs and underfloor regs. PLUS standard parts for almost everything but engine & gearbox, brake systems and steering wheels.
(i.e. scrap £40,000 wheel nuts!)

PLUS standard parts for almost everything but engine & gearbox, brake systems and steering wheels.
(i.e. scrap £40,000 wheel nuts!)

Agreed!

now this was working hard at the wheel (Senna Monaco Content)

Autosport news

seems there may be some who are listening to common sense

“The ideas that are up for discussion during Thursday’s meeting are:

2015
Tyre blanket ban
Fuel system simplification
Brake duct simplification
Front wing simplification
Gearbox usage flow brought in line with engine life
Increase in curfew
Ban on front and rear interconnected suspension

2016
Standard front impact structure
Standard rear impact structure
Standard final drive system
Standard steering rack

2017
FIA standard active suspension
Move to 18-inch wheel rims”

I agree with some of that but I do think that they need to make sure that F1 remains a techncially challenging formula rather than just a spec car one.

Tyre blanket ban is an interesting one – it may mean that tyres become less temperature sensitive (with consequent loss of max grip when in operating window) but that should mean more cars being competitive rather than struggling to get enough heat in their tyres as happens quite regularly at the moment.

The various simplifications make sense too and I think that all the 2016 standards are sensible, maybe with the exception of the final drive system (or does that just mean the diff?)

Active suspension might be a positive but it would need very carefully spec’d rules to avoid the cars being overly stuck to the track or overly complex.

maybe with the exception of the final drive system (or does that just mean the diff?)

I read that as gearbox output right down to wheels. Which could include a bunch of torque/slip sensing electronic stuff to do “assist” the diff.

back2basics – Member

Autosport news

seems there may be some who are listening to common sense

“The ideas that are up for discussion during Thursday’s meeting are:

Aside from tyre blankets ban and active suspension which I’m undecided on, that all seems pretty sensible. I’m not convinced it will truely cut costs though. I imagine the teams will just spend the same cash in other areas.

Standardization of the larger components will help bring down costs – but F1 exists because teams will engineer the heck out of a myriad small components to gain a new advantage.

I think the electronics have to be an area up for review…the steering wheel of a modern car is fantastically complex, adjusting brake balance, fuel flow, engine mapping, etc. Why not have a simple brake balance dial – essential given the weight distribution of the car will change as fuel is used, a pit lane speed limiter and a radio and leave it at that?

this is getting embarrassing for the other teams !!! ferrari 2 seconds off the pace and red bull a second !

2017…

Just watched the qualifying and looking at those shiny silver McLarens. I’d love it if they had red and white livery next year to go with the Honda engines. Like in the good old days.

I’ll bet they’d do any colour as long as there had a sponsor. Still no news on that?

so when Vettel gets the Red Bull working properly, we’ll have
Merc top 2
RBR next 2 + 20 seconds down the road
Ferrari next 2 + 10 seconds down the road

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

still more heads to roll at Ferrari, i dont expect Alonso to finish the season with them to be honest. He’ll take garden leave when he announces his move, or, he’ll openly shred ferrari to bits and that will put him out to pasture.
McLaren Honda for him.
Vettel and Brawn and Newey for Ferrari
Kimi will decide depending on who gives him the most ice creams.

That vettel is a crap driver and Hamilton is just the best driver.
It is either that or the car matters more than the driver.
MMM hard to tell

I dont get it what everyone wants to know is who is best Vettel , Alonso or hamilton or an other

We dont have a clue and it is pointless to watch this

Noone thought the ’88 season was boring. So long as LH and NR are allowed to race there will be some interest.

Thing is whilst LH is clearly the fastest out and out driver on the grid (although not necessarily the best driver on the grid all round) NR is no Alain Prost and I just don’t think he can take the fight on.

Two races he was in a miles quicker car and twice he has failed to capitalise.

Now, if the rumours are true that FA is looking at a Merc drive next year and we had LH and FA in the same team again that would be something regardless of how much quicker than the rest of the field the car was

@junkyard – so therefore we should not watch any competition that is not reliant on anything external to the human body – naked mud wrestling it is then 😉

Just finished catching up on highlights and everything this morning, does anyone else reckon Pastor Maldonado has a button on his steering wheel which just transmits a pre-recorded ‘I crash the car’ ?

Rosberg ‘1 more lap and I’d have overtaken Lewis’.

No. You ragged your car to get within 0.5sec of him locking up twice in the last turn alone. Your own tyres were going to be toast after the finish line too.

Even with set up issues- hear Lewis really questioning his race engineer and throwing back one suggestion quite bluntly? Lewis was ahead. Once upon a time with setup issues Lewis would drop down the field.

i think I would rather see them in the cars than doing that 😉

there could be some sort of evenish playing field so we can actually know who is the best driver as it is dead easy to tell which is the best car each year.

although i am not a Lewis fan i agree @hora – he has come back this year with as a more rounded driver still with a lot of talent, where previously he would have chucked it away by burning up the rear tyres or getting angry.
my only fear is he gets too confident at winning and if he then makes a mistake or has a bad weekend, he’ll be all moody again and fall behind. at the moment though he is top of his game.

I disagree with his hora. Nico would have had him

I’m not convinced there aren’t team orders at Mercedes. I know it’s difficult to overtake at Spain, but Rosberg was over a second a lap faster then strangely can’t get past. Then you see Vettel catching people at a second a lap and being able to get past them when he catches them. Why the difference?
Vettel had the drive of the day for me yesterday.

Unless the others improve this year promises to be even duller than the Vettel years.

1988 was pretty dull until the end.

I disagree with his hora. Nico would have had him

No. Hamo would have been very wide (again). See his unusual victory ‘wiggle’? To me that said ‘this is what I would have done’

Fernando will not go to McLaren if Ron is there and I don’t blame him.

However I do think he will get increasingly agitated and Luca Di Montezemelo will run out of patience with him. Could we see a parting of way like Prost left Ferrari in 91?

Lewis driving very well, appears to have the measure of Rosberg and it does feel like he is wearing him down. Whether he will succeed is another matter. Historical quotes from Lewis’s ex team mates (Alonso, Button, Heikki) would suggest he is a very tough character and his team mates need to be mentally tough to stand a chance. Great battle.

I know it’s difficult to overtake at Spain, but Rosberg was over a second a lap faster then strangely can’t get past.

when was that? eg. according to The Independent

From 4.8 seconds on the 46th lap, Hamilton saw his lead cut steadily: it fell to 4.6 seconds, 3.6, 3.7, 3.1, 2.3 and 2.0 over the six ensuing laps before he found a better way to preserve his tyres and opened it to 2.7 by the 54th lap.

Vettel had fresh tyres so much better traction, hence he was able to brake later, take different lines etc. and cruised past cars who were eking out older tyres to the end. Nico might have had a slight tyre advantage over Lewis but that wouldn’t have been enough on its own – maybe DRS might’ve helped but I reckon Lewis would’ve had a much wider car by then 😉

Unless the others improve this year promises to be even duller than the Vettel years.

1988 was pretty dull until the end.

I thought 1988 was a fascinating season, not a all dull as Senna and Prost raced wheel to wheel to the end.

If that does not excite you I suggest to you look at Touring cars or better still, stock cars!

How old are Newey’s kids now? Could he be tempted by the large buckets of cash Ferrari are willing to throw at him? Could be enough to keep FA though by my reckoning it’d only benefit the car in 2016 at the earliest.

I can’t see FA at McL while RD is there but I could definitely see him go to Merc though I still don’t think he likes having a team mate who’s in his face in any way. I think that KR was signed up at a point that Ferrari were concerned that he’d jump ship or were a bit hacked off with him

I just hope it doesn’t continue like this all season with Lewis 1st, Nico 2nd, only for Lewis to then break down in the last race with Nico taking the championship due to double points!

…I think I’d make a special trip to Bernie’s house if that happened!

I’m enjoying the racing this season, I think its far from boring. The Lewis / Nico battle will run and run.

WTF are Mclaren doing though. They have the best engine and they are probably the sixth fastest car on the grid. Ron Dennis’s triumphant return looks to be a damp squib. All the Honda power in the world won’t help them if they can’t sort out their chassis

I just cannot see Mercedes not having a German driver in the car. If Nico bottles it / has a bust up with Lewis I can see him going to McLaren / Ferrari / Redbull.

2015 could see:

Mercedes – Lewis / Nico Hulkenberg
Ferrari – Vettel / Raikonen
Redbull – Fernando / Daniel
McLaren – Nico Rosberg / Jenson