The F1 Thread…

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  • The F1 Thread…
  • Premier Icon nemesis
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    I can’t see Vettel going to Ferrari unless there’s something to suggest that they can provide a winning car. Same for anyone serious going to McL. when was the last time either of those two teams had the best car? 2007/8? I guess that 2010 was close enough that you could consider they were competitive but not since. Ferrari and McL seem doomed to be stuck as the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th best team with the other teams moving around them but never getting to the top.

    Premier Icon thepurist
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    WTF are Mclaren doing though.

    Desperately trying to recruit some top personnel from other teams, or at least convince those they thought they’d recruited to actually work for them.

    TBH they’re probably not first in the line for tech support from Mercedes at the moment, they’re almost certainly working closely with Honda to integrate the design of next years car with the new power unit, they’re (allegedly) a bit skint too until they reveal Sony as their title sponsor for next year.

    But having said all that they’re probably still better funded, better equipped and better staffed than some of the other Merc teams who are beating them.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
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    WTF are Mclaren doing though.

    Unless they are doing a Mercedes – keeping low key this year and using it as a test bed for ideas for next season.

    Really no incentive to tune a chassis around and engine they aren’t keeping, and I doubt they are getting full support from Merc on the engine front.

    johndoh
    Member

    What I don’t understand though is just *how* Hamilton is using significantly less fuel than others at each race? Surely that suggests he isn’t driving as hard – surely he could do this on fresh tyres and build more advantage? Or when he is under severe pressure couldn’t he just boot it a little harder?

    Premier Icon nemesis
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    That’s the interesting thing that we didn’t get to see – how much fuel were LH and NR using towards the end once they were actually racing. LH seems to be very good at using less fuel even when he’s struggling a bit – maybe he’s able to keep speed more consistently in corners even if he’s not quite so quick so that he doesn’t have to use so much fuel to slow/speed up again.

    Premier Icon andytherocketeer
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    also seems to be looking after tyres a few laps more than previously. might be some link. if this were last season, he’d have been squirrelly on every other corner 5 laps from the end.

    finger boy seems to be doing pit stop earlier than I’d usually expect.

    maybe they’re both an effect of being relegated to mid pack / promoted to leading from the front?

    johndoh
    Member

    And another thing – the (approx) 3.6 seconds Hamilton lost due to poor tyre changes would have made a bigger difference to the later stages – his team put him under lots of pressure due to their failures at this race – and that includes the comms going down several times during the race.

    I bet he gave them a godalmighty bollocking after the race 🙂

    hora
    Member

    Lewis turn it three times.

    What??? Why? etc. (sounded peeved/questioning)

    A couple of minutes later

    Lewis turn it down twice (the wing)

    johndoh
    Member

    That too – he was clearly flustered by what he thought were wrong decisions being made by the team – I wonder if that was paranoia that they were favouring NR?

    hora
    Member

    I wonder if that was paranoia that they were favouring NR?

    That crossed my mind as he said back (almost rudely!).

    mashiehood
    Member

    The comms are really interesting, it shows he is maturing as a driver, analytical, always looking ahead.
    I think Rosberg is doing him a favour, forcing him to look at the wider elements other than just racing flat out.

    Buttons comments were interesting, he is struggling post Lewis in a McLaren as he dosent have a team mate who is quick/intelligent etc

    back2basics
    Member

    I think McLaren have pretty much abandoned this season already, and are doing a “mercedes” in that they are working with Honda for a brand new car in 2015. McLaren probably took the view of “if we are fast from the outset we’ll try and make it happen” for 2014 – but why pump money into a car/engine/kers package they will not have next year

    What you got to remember about Ron Dennis is he’s not adverse to having a number 1 driver in the team in order to gain success. Alonso has already signed will jump at the chance to be no1 for McLaren Honda.

    Premier Icon nemesis
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    If RD hadn’t been there then maybe. With RD there? Why? There are no guarantees that McL will produce a decent chassis or that Honda will produce a better engine than Mercedes particularly given a year’s head start for Merc. Don’t forget that Honda didn’t exactly set the world alight when running an F1 team so success isn’t a given.

    mashiehood
    Member

    ^this
    + I dont think Alonso will trust RD again. For Alonso, he needs to go to a team that is ready to win.

    If I were Alonso, I would stick with Ferrari, they have James Allison who will design next years car, talented chap. hey have a lot of new technical staff they need to give time to produce the good – as Mercedes have done.

    The biggest danger for McLaren – a Williams style slump.

    hora
    Member

    The biggest danger for McLaren – a Williams style slump.

    When did they last win a title….and the time before that was Mika Hakinnen..

    mashiehood
    Member

    Williams won at Spain two years ago. McLaren last won in 2012, the Brazilian GP.
    McLaren last won the drivers in 2008 and Constructors in 98.
    Williams last won drivers & constructor in 97.

    Premier Icon nemesis
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    At least McL have consistently (until recently) been up there, usually second best. Williams went wrong when they stopped being a works team – which interestingly is kind of where McL are right now. Maybe next year being the works Honda team will help them improve.

    Premier Icon nemesis
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    McL actually ‘won’ the constructors in 2007 too don’t forget but had it stripped after spygate.

    Premier Icon richmtb
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    Good points about Mclaren. Why develop an engine / chassis combination you are only going to run for a year. But still Force India are making them look pretty stupid

    Premier Icon nemesis
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    I don’t really subscribe to the theory that work developping the car this year is wasted. They issue they reported in 2013 was that the 2012 cars was mostly good but they didn’t often know why. That meant that the 2013 car wasn’t good but they similarly didn’t know why and therefore didn’t know what to do to fix it. The worry is that that seems to have translated through to 2014 so far and unless they can break through that they’ll never have a decent 2015 car.

    It’s a bit like Ferrari – Massa was quoted saying that Williams at least add things to the car and they work as expected – they may not be the best team but they at least develop and things improve. Red Bull are so good (until now and largely that seems to be out of their direct control as the chassis seems fundamentally good) because they develop and make their car better. They were really the only team that got a handle on EBDs.

    mashiehood
    Member

    I think in the coming years we will see the likes of VW, BMW, Nissan (under infinity) come to grid either through engines suppliers or works teams.

    So, the likes of Sauber, Force India are prime candidates for buyouts by manufacturers. Thats the beauty of the new engines and drive train – it can be linked directly to road car development.

    Im looking forward to a more ‘logical’ formula 1. 🙂

    Premier Icon thepurist
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    IIRC VW have recently ruled out F1 from their plans – they’re sticking to the Audis in Endurance racing where they’re already getting a lot of success from similar hybrid technology (albeit diesel).

    With Haas looking like he’s coming into F1 and allegedly wanting a US based team there’s always the possibility that he’s got some sort of backing from Ford or GM.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
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    As for the season being boring it’s still too early to tell IMO, things can and do change in F1. It seems quite likely to me the two Mercs will end up taking each other out of at least one race.

    I can’t see Audi (VAG) in F1 in the near future, the endurance racing and saloon cars is a much better fit for the brand. Mercedes have been trying to lose the dull tag for a long time, being seen as third best to BMW and Audi with their road cars in terms of performance. F1 does that for them after the link up with McClaren.

    RD is a pretty smart operator, in a financially tight era they’ve hung on pretty well but its very feasible he’s written of 2014 and is focused on next year. Merc have their own team it’s not hard to imagine McClaren would want to go elsewhere.

    hora
    Member

    Since 1999 Mclaren have only won once.

    One title in 15yrs+

    Premier Icon thepurist
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    Apart from 2007. Ferrari had a similar gap then they practically owned the title for a while. What’s your point? Things ebb and change, teams rise and fall and sometimes risa again. Do we write them all off?

    hora
    Member

    They arent the mclaren of old days are they. When will they attract a top driver? 2016?

    Premier Icon thepurist
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    McLaren Honda with a big title sponsor in 2015 and maybe a car designed with input from some of the best aero guys in the business. Yeah they’ll be scratching around for people to fill those seats…

    Edit – and aiui they’ve already got an option on a wdc who beat Hamilton in the same car over the course of a season.

    hora
    Member

    So 2016. 2015 wont be an amazing winning car from scratch will it.

    Two years away. Maybe.

    mashiehood
    Member

    I think McLaren have an identity issue. Their supposed raison d’être is F1 but their road car programme, ownership model etc means IMHO lack of identity, direction etc.

    Now, Ron will try and address it so let’s wait and see.

    hora
    Member

    Button? He hasnt won a race for two years and now blames a team mate

    http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/12479/9307183/jenson-button-says-mclaren-are-being-hurt-by-the-inexperience-of-kevin-magnussen

    His title year was due to (genius) hiding the double diffuser from other teams

    Premier Icon trout
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    Makes me wonder if Macca are getting the full package from Merc with them jumping ship to Honda shirley Merc wont want all their tech going to Honda for free.

    ScottChegg
    Member

    I think McLaren have an identity issue. Their supposed raison d’être is F1 but their road car programme, ownership model etc means IMHO lack of identity, direction etc.

    Yeah, Ferrari really struggle with that…

    mashiehood
    Member

    Button? He hasnt won a race for two years and now blames a team mate

    http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/12479/9307183/jenson-button-says-mclaren-are-being-hurt-by-the-inexperience-of-kevin-magnussen

    His title year was due to (genius) hiding the double diffuser from other teams
    I think that’s a little harsh on button, I saw the interview and his point was that McLaren have suffered since Hamilton left due to lack of two experienced drivers, not aimed at jan alone.

    Also, the double diffuser was also being used by Williams so hardly hidden.

    Yeah, Ferrari really struggle with that…

    Clearly! On a serious note they have a long history, prestige etc.

    Premier Icon thepurist
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    IIRC button won the last race of 2012 and since then McLaren haven’t had a car capable of winning, so I doubt Hamilton Alonso or vettel would have scored many wins in his seat last year. Alonso hasn’t won for a year now so is he losing it too? Buttons not the fastest over a single lap, not great at driving round problems but can and has delivered results over a season. I’d say he’s a safe bet for picking up results and developing a new package alongside a quick young talent ( BOTTAS?) but will be retired by the time it really starts to deliver.

    back2basics
    Member

    button didnt have it all his own way when he won his title, i remember plenty of fight backs from the mid field due to issues, in fact wasnt there a great drive in Brazil in his title winning year.

    Premier Icon nemesis
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    Brawn had no money to develop so Button got his big headstart in 2009 and then the rest of the field (esp Red Bull) caught up so the last few races he was having to chase from midfield (though admittedly Rubens seemed to cope better than Button in qualifying later in the season)

    tightywighty
    Member

    back2basics – Member

    button didnt have it all his own way when he won his title, i remember plenty of fight backs from the mid field due to issues, in fact wasnt there a great drive in Brazil in his title winning year.

    Yep, great overtake on Kobayashi in that race IIRC

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
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    Oh dear…

    …I think I’d rather have quieter cars if this is the best they can do to make them louder!

    Looks like they’ve taken advice from the MaxPower crew!

    Premier Icon thepurist
    Subscriber

    I’m sure they’re just doing it to take the piss out of Bernie. Or at least I hope so.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Will he be able to hear it from prison 😈

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