The F1 Thread…

Actually if you count mechanicals and now spa, lewis would be streets ahead in points

Sure but he isn’t and statistically there’s no reason to expect Rosberg to have worse reliability than Hamilton in the remaining races. Arguably from a statistical pov, LH should have more mechanicals and slower pitstops whatever the reasons may be.

Arguably from a statistical pov, LH should have more mechanicals and slower pitstops whatever the reasons may be.

Eh ❓

Well in the races so far he’s had slower pitstops and more reliability issues. If you extrapolate…

My point was really that while he may have had worse reliability, if that’s purely down to bad luck, there’s no reason to expect it to even out from here on given that they drive the same car.

My point was really that while he may have had worse reliability, if that’s purely down to bad luck, there’s no reason to expect it to even out from here on given that they drive the same car.

On the contrary, if is is purely down to bad luck, then the laws of probability dictate that such things will even themselves out over a sufficient time, all else being equal. Whether an F1 season is a sufficient length of time, and whether all things are equal are other questions.

I don’t think you really understand statistics. Your statement is true before the events happen (eg before the season started). From here on, the fact that NR has had better reliability in the past in no way influences the future probability of either him or LH having mechanicals.

As such, by not having had the mechanicals up to this point, NR has gained a clear advantage (statistically).

One question we haven’t touched upon, when LH realised he wasn’t going to be competitive – he asked to retire the car, to save the engine, but wasn’t allowed to do so, that seems to be a curious decision?

If a safety car had been deployed, there may well have been a chance of points and Merc engines’ reliability has been decent thus far so on balance it was worth keeping going.

but I am sure that Hamilton will be more cautious around Rosberg for a while.

Are we talking about the same driver? If I was Hamilton, the very next thing I’m doing in the first corner of the next race is punting Rosberg into the barrier. If Rosberg wants to play that particular game, he could do worse than walk down to the Ferrari garage and ask Alonso how that worked out for him

🙂

Mind you, see how well that worked out for LH and Alonso given that Kimi won the title that year…

Might be worth a punt on Danny Ric then?

i think when other driver start to come out and side with Hamilton (Button and Massa) than the argument is settled. They are hardly Hamilton fans!

It was 100% Rosberg’s fault.

I don’t think it was a deliberate attempt to puncture Hamilton’s tyre but it was a deliberate attempt to put some manners on Hamilton.

Deep down Rosberg knows this is his best chance of becoming World Champion and it looks like he is prepared to defend his title lead with plenty of vigour.

I was more disappointed that it spoiled a good scrap than anything else yesterday, a clumsy lunge on the second lap doesn’t make for a good race long battle.

Still nice to see Danny Ric win again, his speed consistency and maturity are a revelation. No one predicted he would be so good against his vaunted team mate.

It was a racing incident, not intentional.

No, it was intentional. Rosberg deliberately swiped back in a second time, and a driver of his experience will have known that in doing so, there was a very high likelihood of contact.

The car in front does not have to yield, especially when the attacking car is so far back – the attacking car must yield. And if Hamilton had eased off slightly, all that would have resulted would have been that Rosberg T-boned him instead of taking his tyre out. He’d have to slow pretty hard with Rosberg that far back to let him pass, and he had no requirement to do so. The fault lies 100% with Rosberg, and given his experience and lead in the championship, it’s very difficult to believe that he didn’t hope for the outcome he got. If Hamilton’s downfall had been more immediate, had he not controlled the car as the rear tyre deflated, then I suspect the stewards would have looked a lot closer – just like the football player who never dives rarely winning any penalties.

Look at it another way – the worst that could have happened is that he took them both out, and he’d still have his lead, with one less race to defend it in. Second worst would be Rosberg losing his nose and Hamilton being undamaged, so a 10-20 second time penalty whilst the nose is changed, and as the car is so fast, working his way back through the field and regaining 2nd place behind Lewis.[/quote]

If He’s really able to be that calculating and precise then Hats off, but come on, those sort of contacts generally result in front wing damage for the chasing car and perhaps 1 in every 5 instances the leading car gets a flat?

You really think he was seeking the contact? Nah the balance of probability would have been He’d end up eating his front wing while Lewis romped ahead… The outcome was just “Lucky” for Rosberg.

He was trying to put Lewis “Under pressure” the sort of thing Lewis has done himself plenty of times, the different being Lewis wasn’t phased, knew his line and called Rosberg’s bluff when he went in a bit too deep, Yes it’s Rosberg’s “fault” but he wasn’t actually seeking the shunt, he was playing “Who’s the bravest boy” with completely the wrong fella…

Lewis will of course bitch about the incident that wee bit too much and test everyone’s patience in the end. But for now, yes he gets to prance about on a high horse…

Also, FWIW, the Aussie media is taking the same line as the British media, actually devoting more time to the Mercedes story than to Ricciardo, which I think is a little unfair.

+1000, Ricciardo has been Great so far this season and the focus on Mercedes bickering does take a lot of the shine off, but that’s F1 for you the racing plays second place to the politics sometimes… At the minute I’d say He’d be a far more popular championship winner than either of the Mercedes drivers, but it ain’t (technically) a popularity contest…

wouldnt it be special if Ricky won it from under the noses of Merc drivers.

Whats the betting that come the final round, Nico leading the championship, tries to take out Hamilton and Ricky, fails and has a total meltdown!

But for now, yes he gets to prance about on a high horse…

Separate maybe but it’s interesting the way F1 is right now – three drivers are generally regarded as the best – Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton.

Vettel is in danger of being pushed out of that group at the moment but Alonso and Hamilton are sitting on a total of three World Championships between them with neither having won on for 6+ years. If Nico wins this year, I think it’ll likely be viewed as a ‘right place, right time’ one – a little like Button – a really good but not great driver winning in the right car and circumstances. So if not this year, will next year be Hamilton’s? I can’t see Alonso jumping ship just yet and can’t see Ferrari providing him the car he needs to win next year either.

Alonso will never win again, and I’m not sure Hamilton will either, he certainly won’t if he doesn’t do it this year.

Alonso will never win again

It is looking that way – unless he can find a berth at a winning team as I can’t see Ferrari providing him the car he needs but then that’s not looking likely.

i also believe there probably are some contractual obligations to keep the cars running to appease the sponsors unless there was a mechanical failure. A bit of a problem when hamilton is running round the track with decent pace even with damage to the floor.

As such, by not having had the mechanicals up to this point, NR has gained a clear advantage (statistically).

Yep, mea culpa. You are quite correct, and I’m being dozy! Good job I don’t use stats and deal with data on a daily basis 😳

If He’s really able to be that calculating and precise then Hats off, but come on, those sort of contacts generally result in front wing damage for the chasing car and perhaps 1 in every 5 instances the leading car gets a flat?

Schumi and Senna were that ruthless on occasion. As I said, what did he have to lose? Worst case both crash out and he’s still 9 points ahead with one less race to preserve his lead in. Second worst, he loses his nose, it costs him 20 seconds, which he makes up in 10 laps or so and is back in second where he was at the time of the crash. Pretty low risk to his championship, with quite a lot to gain if anything happens to Lewis, which of course it did.

Lewis will of course bitch about the incident

Not so far.

I wonder how much flak Nico would have received for tangling with a driver other than his team mate?

My 2p on the matter; It was a racing incident but unfortunately the other driver was his team mate and it was very very early on in the race.

Everybody knows not to collide with your team mate and especially not so early on in the race.

Can’t find it but Bottas overtook Vettel on the same corner as the NR/LH shunt later on in the race, it showed you have to be almost in front of the defending car before you can make it stick round the outside there.

Not having it it’s down to lack of vision/Rosberg not being able to race wheel to wheel either. You only have to watch the last ten laps or whatever it was of Bahrain to see how he can race.

It’s a shame it happened either way as it ruined what could have been another fantastic race. Roll on Monza!

Vettel made the same move on the same corner on Hamilton on Lap 1, realised he couldn’t make it stick so went straight on

Vettel – bloody good German driver

Rosberg – scrappy German driver who has been very lucky

I predict that Rosberg’s luck is going to change in the coming races 🙂

more accurately its

Hamilton pushes team mate off any chance he gets
Hamilton allows people through who are not in the title chance

Rosberg backs down and thinks long term with everyone else including his teammate – until now.

and if you want to call rosberg “scrappy” just look at all the qualy mistakes hamilton has made, and then he almost crashes in the wet in the previous race when he has to start from the pitlane,
plus his crashes into button, alonso with his front wings already this year.
plus he’s also had to take to the escape road a few times this year,

yet nico

he just does the job every race, and when he finally says “no lewis i aint giving up” he gets the whole frikin world on his case.

Given the number of shoves and dubious overtaking manoeuvres that Hamilton has dished out this season (and in previous seasons), it’s a little hypocritical to get so shirty about this one. The whinging to the press is just reinforcing my impression of him as a spoiled brat whose success has got to his head. He obviously sees the title slipping away from him and is just screaming in the hope that Mercedes will slap down Nico, thereby demotivating him and giving Lewis the upper hand.

I think that as well as wanting to win the title as he’s an F1 driver and that’s his lifelong dream, I think there’s an element of it enabling him to step out a bit from his dad’s shadow.

back2basics – Member

and if you want to call rosberg “scrappy” just look at all the qualy mistakes hamilton has made, and then he almost crashes in the wet in the previous race when he has to start from the pitlane,
plus his crashes into button, alonso with his front wings already this year.
plus he’s also had to take to the escape road a few times this year,

yet nico

he just does the job every race, and when he finally says “no lewis i aint giving up” he gets the whole frikin world on his case.

Have any of Hamilton’s ‘moves’ forced anyone to retire or completely ruined their race?

The crash in to Button whilst coming from the back of the grid? The one he apologised for the following lap and Button after seeing the race footage admitted it was 50/50?

I’m not a particular Hamilton fan but you are very anti

I don’t think it was a deliberate attempt to puncture Hamilton’s tyre but it was a deliberate attempt to put some manners on Hamilton.

Deep down Rosberg knows this is his best chance of becoming World Champion and it looks like he is prepared to defend his title lead with plenty of vigour.

@richmtb – this

Given the number of shoves and dubious overtaking manoeuvres that Hamilton has dished out this season (and in previous seasons), it’s a little hypocritical to get so shirty about this one. The whinging to the press is just reinforcing my impression of him as a spoiled brat whose success has got to his head.

@atlaz – and this

Hamilton stomped out of McLaren the team the nurtured his career and gave him his championship and into Mercedes on the basis he was going to win again, the inconvenient truth is that he has the best car by miles and his team mate is beating him. He is not handling this situation very well at all.

Context is everything and what Rosberg did on lap two at Spa last weekend was not judged as such. He declined to surrender a place that, conventionally, he had already failed to make work – once into the corner his front wheels were never any further forward than level with the front of Hamilton’s sidepod. But he’s not obliged by any regulation to surrender at this point. He’s perfectly entitled to attempt to bully the guy ahead out of the way by leaving the nose of his car there. To suggest it was a deliberate attempt at puncturing Hamilton’s tyre is ludicrous – as Sky F1’s Martin Brundle later pointed out: “The chances of puncturing the other guy’s tyre if you hit him from behind: about 30%. The chances of damaging your own front wing: 100%,” – but to effectively place the decision of contact in Hamilton’s hands is not necessarily dangerous; it’s just racing. Hard and resolute, ruthless even. But not necessarily dangerous and therefore not necessarily worthy of a penalty.

I think this sums it up well

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/22058/9440836/nico-rosbergs-spa-code-of-conduct-shaped-by-critical-moments-in-hungary-and-bahrain

Well if Martin Brundle agrees with me then I must be right…

I’d certainly go for MB’s view than the views of the less well informed. Not to mention that it looks like a comfortable majority of F1 people seem to think the same

Lewis Hamilton has queried the FIA’s decision not to investigate his collision with Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg at the Belgian Grand Prix.

Given some of your driving antics just drive your car faster than your team mate Booo Hoooo boy 🙄

I’m just hoping that if they do anything stupid this weekend they do it at the first chicane, cos that’s where I’m gonna be sat! 😀

so,
who thinks team orders at Merc then?
first driver into the first corner “wins” barring any technical difficulties and “overtaking” only allowed when 1 driver is in the pits and the other can press hard , which means pole will mean everything….

he has the best car by miles and his team mate is beating him

Or his teammate has had better reliability?

I hope not, the first corner thing means it’s over in qualifying if that’s the case.

I’d expect red bull to mount a good challenge here, given how fast they were running skinny wings at Spa.

McLaren did the same thing didnt they with Coulthard and Hakkinen, even to the extent where coulthard let hakkinen through at the end of the race, wasnt it the british GP, because hakk had the first corner, and only went behind because of a puncture to hakk was it???

‘Sticky’ wheelnut for Hamilton in the pits, if he’s in the lead……