The Electric Car Thread

Do they live in it?

No, like me their mortgage might be small.

or back in the real world its probably rent.

We are at that point in current ICE car’s life that replacement should probably happen.
But, my thinking now is to get a small cheaper 2nd hand EV for the run around jobs, in/out of town, 20 miles to/from Supermarkets, maybe the 1hr drive to nearest big city. The majority of the driving we do by a long way.
Keep the ICE for the long drives – 4-5hrs to Uni for the kids etc.
That’ll keep the ICE going for longer due to limited miles.

Maybe this is madness, so tell me if that’s so.

That’s what we did a couple of years ago – bought a £4k zoe to see how it would work out as a second car. But, as per my previous posts, I’ve just taken the next step and chopped the diesel estate in for another ev too. Depends how often you’ll be doing the long drives and what your appetite to slightly changing how you approach those is.

or back in the real world its probably rent.

Possibly, possibly not.

The ones who can’t afford a new car if it’s ICE? Ever even on a lease.

The discussion was whether you had to be well off to afford an EV. I’d say if you can’t afford an EV because you’re renting in a council scheme then the answer is yes, you do. Folk in council schemes don’t buy new cars full stop, not the ones in honest work at any rate.

No, it’s not like eating in a Michelin restaurant. You’re comparing bangers to new cars, if you can’t afford a new car then it doesn’t matter if it’s ice or EV. Yes, I’m very lucky to have the cash to afford to lease a new car, I know that.

No not bangers, like for like. I’m comparing cars of the same age. Your deluded if you think an 7 year old car is a banger! It’s like saying that a house more than 3 years old is a slum because the boiler is out of warranty!

It is cheaper to eat at a Michelin star restaurant than some other places because you couldn’t possibly stoop to eating somewhere that doesn’t have silver service and that’s your argument for affordability.

I don’t see people who can’t afford them not buying EVs as a problem. What I do see as a problem is people buying new ICE cars in the same categories as EVs even when the ICE is more expensive. Two retired people I know have recently bought SUV ICEs that will cost more than an EV over three years even though they haven’t driven more than 150km from home in all the time I’ve known them. They’ve bought into all the anti-EV rubbish on petrolhead sites (and the main stream media) such as Sqirrelking claiming the Zoé 40 is only good for 100-140miles – though you did eventually post a link to back up the claim with the range as 110-235miles with a cold temperature of -10°C for the lower figure – I take it that was the worst you cound find, Suirrelking.

There’s a lot of anti-EV propaganda out there and unfortunately many new car buyers are still buying into it.

Folk in council schemes don’t buy new cars full stop, not the ones in honest work at any rate.

Exactly my point. Although secondhand EVs are available they’re not banging prices as they’ve not been around long enough. I’m not sure spending 5k on one makes you wealthy, but yes people living on lowest incomes can’t afford 5k for a car. I consider myself very fortunate to live the lifestyle I live.

No not bangers, like for like. I’m comparing cars of the same age.

What like a new EV working out cheaper than a new ice

Your deluded if you think an 7 year old car is a banger! It’s like saying that a house more than 3 years old is a slum because the boiler is out of warranty!

It would be if I had said that. I didnt

The discussion was whether you had to be well off to afford an EV. I’d say if you can’t afford an EV because you’re renting in a council scheme then the answer is yes, you do. Folk in council schemes don’t buy new cars full stop, not the ones in honest work at any rate.

You know there are people that are in honest work, rent and don’t claim benefits? Or any other combination that don’t or cant prioritise finance on a car.

You know there are people that are in honest work, rent and don’t claim benefits? Or any other combination that don’t or cant prioritise finance on a car

Fair point . More real world experiance where access to cheap debt doesn’t help. It’s just not on many folks radar to saddle them selves with continual payments

It would be if I had said that. I didnt

But you did say they were banger! <span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>A 7 year old car isn’t a banger but that’s what you called them.</span>

But you did say they were banger!

Yes, did you see Squirrelking’s 20 year old comparison?

I don’t see people who can’t afford them not buying EVs as a problem. What I do see as a problem is people buying new ICE cars in the same categories as EVs even when the ICE is more expensive. Two retired people I know have recently bought SUV ICEs that will cost more than an EV over three years even though they haven’t driven more than 150km from home in all the time I’ve known them.

This. In spades. It’s everywhere you look and the debate is not about the choice a buyer of 5 year old cars makes, because that’s always going to be between the options that are available to them in their price range and ultimately doesn’t do much to affect the transition from ICE to EV. So the debate is about the point the car enters the market or its manufacture is commissioned by demand. And there are a lot of really silly decisions being made at that point. 2021 Jaguar/BMW/Volvo SUVs et al are ten a penny, awful MPG and cost well into good EV territory. And most of them never leave tarmac or have a human being on the back seat.

If we were getting this right now, then in a few years time buyers of older cars, and I’d normally count myself as one of those, would see a market of good EVs and probably at a favourable financial comparison with ICE options. As it is, I suspect it’ll take a little longer, although presumably depreciation of outgoing tech will worsen because of shifting demand.

Yes, did you see Squirrelking’s 20 year old comparison

You quoted me, I was referring to current prices looked up on auto trader. And that  £1k 7 year old car will carry on for another 13 years.

£1k for a 7 year old car? That’s some what of a bargain, couldn’t find any that age for that price for my daughter.

£1k is bangernimics territory, buy cheap take the gamble of no huge outlay. Like for like would £5i vs £5k. Yeah you’ll get more for your money with an ice but ev will be cheaper to run.

Yes, I’m very lucky to have the cash to afford to lease a new car, I know that.

I’ve no problem with how you spend your money and I’ll certainly consider spending more on a car once there’s something that offers me significant benefit over a cheap old Saab. £27k on a MG5 doesn’t seem great. However you, and I’m guessing most other electric car owners don’t need free charging as you’re perfectly capable of paying for it yourselves. Subsidising the infrastructure in the short term is probably helpful but not the actual energy costs. It’s as illogical to me as the cycle to work scheme that excludes minimum wage employees but allows bankers to save £25% on a £10k road bike.

However you, and I’m guessing most other electric car owners don’t need free charging as you’re perfectly capable of paying for it yourselves.

Maybe not but it was one of the appeal for me switching, still works out cheaper for me charging at home now than diesel did or petrol on my hybrid.

That’s how I society works, we all contribute and gain benefits in different ways. I can get no help with replacing my ageing boiler while others can, that’s how it works. It’s not great but you can claim a lot of things are unfair. I’m still fortunate regardless though.

I’m still fortunate regardless though.

Yep, which is why you can have your pick of cars for a large amount of monthly money. Many people can’t hence the original comment that EVs are expensive (guessing that is what is was aimed at as I didn’t make the comment).
Although it is still better environmentally for the person who can’t afford one to get a 20 year old car for £500 anyway rather than bring yet another new car into the world so they are actually less of a problem even if not by choice.

So long as they do lss than 50 000 km in the old car and don’t give a damn about the health of their fellow citizens.

You know there are people that are in honest work, rent and don’t claim benefits? Or any other combination that don’t or cant prioritise finance on a car.

Yes. Hence why I was talking about general folk in those situations driving new cars.

Yep, which is why you can have your pick of cars for a large amount of monthly money. Many people can’t hence the original comment that EVs are expensive (guessing that is what is was aimed at as I didn’t make the comment).

This, this and this again. EVs are not inexpensive by any measure. That was the point. If they were inexpensive they would be affordable to the least well off.

They’ve bought into all the anti-EV rubbish on petrolhead sites (and the main stream media) such as Sqirrelking claiming the Zoé 40 is only good for 100-140miles – though you did eventually post a link to back up the claim with the range as 110-235miles with a cold temperature of -10°C for the lower figure – I take it that was the worst you cound find, Suirrelking.

No it wasn’t, it was literally the first figure I found and had no reason to disbelieve it. You even said that was close to the figures Renault give so I’m not sure why you’re suddenly picking for a fight on that.

As for this idea I’m anti-EV; get a grip ya melt.

I did the bangernomics sums a while ago and found that over 3 years and 30000 miles a £6k Nissan Leaf was cheaper in total than a £1k 2l petrol. That was assuming both cars were worthless at the end of 3 years when the Leaf almost certainly wouldn’t be.

I drove a s/h 2015 bmw i3 for 5 years. Over that time, the TOTAL cost, including insurance, depreciation and ‘lecy worked out to be £50.41 per month. That’s insanely cheap motoring. Even if i had had to borrow the £15k to buy it, it would have still be insanely cheap, simply because the car didn’t depreciate and cost nothing to run…..

It also had the happy side effect of keeping around 35,000 miles off my 335d touring, which i sold earlier this year, with a lovely low mileage and one owner for about £2k over “top book” to the first person to come to look at it….

I agree with you Max, but most folk at the bottom of the social ladder will not have access to £15k of borrowed funds. Even my £6k for a 30kwh leaf would be difficult for most.

bankers to save £25% on a £10k road bike.

bankers can save up to 62% on a 10k road bike. Which, oddly, makes them quite affordable

Many people can’t hence the original comment that EVs are expensive

The comment was you had to be wealthy. It seems to depend people’s idea of wealth and there are different comparisons here. Those spending £500 on a car, of course they can’t afford a EV, those who can afford £5k who can get an get older one. I’d not class someone spending £5k as particularly wealthy. Me, it was cheaper to get an EV, a rather nice one too I’m still exactly wealthy, but I am on a good income.

As for this idea I’m anti-EV; get a grip ya melt.

If you’re starting to throw insults around I’d take a break from the thread.

It does strike me that nearly no one looks at the costs of a car in the same way you might, for example, look at an investment in machinery for work. When I was looking at the decision 3 years ago I tried to evaluate lots of options on a cost per mile travelled assuming my annual mileage basis. Including buy price, tax, fuel, servicing, sale price etc etc. My on the surface outlandishly expensive EV was a chunk more than buying a 3 Yr old Mondeo and driving it to the grave, obvs (and while this is what I might’ve gone for if the environmental debate was different, they’re not really comparable). But it’s notable that my dad’s old Subaru Forester had cost more per mile than my Tesla probably will, a new ICE SUV would be off the scale pricey and something like a BMW 5 series looked about the same as my similarly luxurious EV (what I judged to be a more appropriate comparison). And I used a DCF method to reflect cost of money and an element of uncertainty, which is probably harder on the EV. Plus the EV market has improved in the 3 years since.

Annoyingly, I lost the analysis in a hard drive that committed suicide.

I’ve never kept a car for a long period, I’m a bit shit like that with cash.

It does strike me that nearly no one looks at the costs of a car in the same way you might, for example, look at an investment in machinery for work.

It depends on how you run your household. For us, everything is operational expenditure. We haven’t got the capital to lay out a load of money and bank on getting some of it back in a number of years’ time.

Lidl have entered the game.

https://pod-point.com/rollout/lidl-ev-charging?fbclid=IwAR1U183JQwc9ih-DhcJQF83wM-HdEK3-DozYdwb90Zlv3J9m4KQ4FlsW_as

You’ll be able to find the new points and start charging using the Pod Point app as with any other Pod Point.

You’d have thought in this day and age they would have enabled contactless payment on new rapid chargers instead we have to use another bloody app. As it happens I use a Pod Point home charger so already have the app and an account but still…

You’d have thought in this day and age they would have enabled contactless payment on new rapid chargers instead we have to use another bloody app

Many allow both. Some only an app which is ridiculous.

https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/how-to-access-public-ev-charging

Just watched a review on the Kia EV6

Much want.

Just watched a review on the Kia EV6

It does look good, but £50k on a KIA!?!?

At Lidl in France and Germany you just turn up and plug in, no app and no payment. 1h max car park stay in Germany. They have free chargers for e-bikes too in Germany.

I’d have said the same but they really are amazing

Strangely I just bought a Hyundai for the MiL after looking at 10 cars
The build quality was head and shoulders above the other makes.

It does look good, but £50k on a KIA!?!?

With 800V electrical architecture up until now only available on the Porsche Taycan (starting price £85k) and Audi eTron GT (starting price £81k). Bargin really.

Plus if my e-Niro is anything to go by the build quality, fit and finish on current Kias is every bit as good if not better than mid range BMWs and Mercs. I think we really need to recalibrate our expectation of what the S Koreans are offering vs the old German brands.

The Ioniq 5 is 800V according to the ntv PS Automagazin journo.

The Ioniq 5 is 800V according to the ntv PS Automagazin journo.

Both cars use the same Hyundai Motor Group e-GMP platform

The comment was you had to be wealthy. It seems to depend people’s idea of wealth and there are different comparisons here. Those spending £500 on a car, of course they can’t afford a EV, those who can afford £5k who can get an get older one.

Of course these things are relative. Personally an EV would be affordable however that doesn’t mean someone earning £18.5K (40h per week at max minimum wage) would think so, that’s before you consider workers who can only manage part time hours for whatever reason or the self employed. That’s nearly £10K under the average wage (£28k).

Anyway, it’s all moot for me as I still don’t have a reliable parking space or charging source. 🙁

If you’re starting to throw insults around I’d take a break from the thread.

Sorry, you’re right, the sly digs just annoy me. Being civil and reasonable gets me nowhere and I get annoyed, moreso than normal recently. Consider your friendly warning heeded.

Well I agree with you on this one @squirrelking, they aren’t cheap and aren’t particularly affordable. That’s why we are leasing.

Capital allowances on electric cars

Cars with CO2 emissions of less than 50g/km are also eligible for 100% first year capital allowances. This means with electric cars, you can deduct the full cost from your pre-tax profits. On a car costing around £40,000 this could amount to a tax relief of £7,600 in the first year.

It’s ok if you are wealthy, you can have your Michelin cake and eat it basically for free…