The Electric Car Thread

Oh I should have clarified – the network should be run by a government that knows what’s it’s doing 🙂

Imagine how many petrol stations there would be if houses had a petrol tap in the yard with petrol at a third of the petrol station price. Charge points are expensive to make install and maintain, and most EV users only use them when they’re more than 150km from home. They aren’t economically viable in all but the busiest locations at present. There’s one outside my local swimming pool that I walk past three or four times a day that I haven’t seen in use in the last two weeks.

There’s one outside my local swimming pool that I walk past three or four times a day that I haven’t seen in use in the last two weeks.

Depends on what charger type it is, if it’s a slow one (3/7 type 2) which so many are that could be why.

Its also very much a chicken and egg situation. There’s not huge amounts of reliable rapid 100kw+ chargers about and companies won’t invest properly till the demand exists. Tons of 50kws or slower chargers.

We’ve got a 52kw ID4 coming but very likely will only ever use it for local stuff and charge at home for the above reason.
I’m reluctant to switch the diesel estate at the moment despite really wanting too. Having that 500 mile range on a tank will be hard to lose to a c250 mile range with a 1.5hr charge time (50kw) just to get the other 250 mile done to match it and needing another top at most likely near the end.

The problem with charging points at the moment for long journeys is that the decent chargers are not in spots which are interesting enough to spend an hour or so and keep the little one and us entertained, if they were at places like nice parks rather than Starbucks it’d help a lot.

If we just did what the Germans do and put soft play and parks at service stations that would solve that problem.

If we just did what the Germans do and put soft play and parks at service stations that would solve that problem.

They should just shove a bouncy castle in the car park.

molgrips

If we just did what the Germans do and put soft play and parks at service stations that would solve that problem.

The new service station at Rugby is pretty nice with a load of charging bays, a kids indoor soft play area and loads of outdoor seating in a pleasant setting.

It reminded me of some of the French service stations we stopped at a couple of years ago

We’ve got a 52kw ID4 coming but very likely will only ever use it for local stuff and charge at home for the above reason.

Isn’t that where a PHEV fits? Mrs S has had hers for around 2 months and only used 1/2 tank of petrol. Ok she has to plug it in more often than a full EV but we’ve fitted a weatherproof 3 pin plug socket on the outside of the garage to make that task easy.

Isn’t that where a PHEV fits?

No because the smaller EV fits perfectly for 80% of our journeys which many are greater than the range of a PHEV but less than the total range of the EV (return). It’s our second car.

It’s the other 20% as to why I’m stuck deciding do I try and make a larger EV work or stick with for now the more convenient diesel.

if it’s a slow one (3/7 type 2)

I’s a nominal 22 Type 2 that runs at 18, just like all the public charge points within 70km. But most people charge at home. I only use it when I get back from a long trip late and want to do another long trip the next morning, that’s once a year so far.

It’s the other 20% as to why I’m stuck deciding do I try and make a larger EV work or stick with for now the more convenient diesel.

I’ve just taken the plunge and given up the German diesel estate for a German electric semi suv (e-Tron). I don’t do huge miles anymore, but there’s likely to be a couple of 500 mile round trips in the next couple of months. I’m taking the view that I’m just going to have to change how I do those journeys. An extra hour or so each way will take care of the charging need and paying for the super high speed chargers at 69p per kWh (Ionity) will be offset by the free charging I’m getting 90% of the time in Scotland.

I’m also considering an Alps trip in it – that might be a harder sell.

Personally I wouldn’t mind doing a long trip in an EV especially if it can do 3 hours between stops. I don’t really want to drive that in one go, and for me the endless coffees, cakes and food are what make road trips fun.

Personally I wouldn’t mind doing a long trip in an EV especially if it can do 3 hours between stops. I don’t really want to drive that in one go, and for me the endless coffees, cakes and food are what make road trips fun.

I agree long trips even in the ICE need a break, but its the whole debacle of finding suitable chargers that work even when you’ve reached your holiday destination. Look at zapmap, filter out anything lower than 100kw chargers and there’s large swathes of the country missing them but overlay that with fuel stations and you can easily see the problem.

This write up of a 1000 mile trip journey for example is not my idea of fun. https://www.speakev.com/threads/real-world-and-holidays-farnborough-to-st-ives-to-ross-on-wye.161882/

Spending evenings hunting for juice or feeling rushed to stop charging because a queue is forming ? I want to be relaxing wherever I call base after a good day out. We regularly go away on weeks/long weekends.

I know it’ll change and more reliable faster units will emerge its just whether now is the right time to change for us, despite really wanting too.

but its the whole debacle of finding suitable chargers that work even when you’ve reached your holiday destination.

That’s a somewhat different issue – it’s not the distance and the journey that’s the problem, it’s the destination. And yes it’s an issue.

Looks like Tesla’s network may soon be open to all
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/355605/slow-charging-evs-could-be-charged-more-when-tesla-supercharger-network-opens-all

This would help. Alot.

filter out anything lower than 100kw chargers

That’s just daft. If you’re that impatient a holiday must be hell for you. On my last holiday I arrived at destination and plugged the car in overnight at the campsite. On pervious holidays I’ve charged at the hotel, at a free 22kW charger 50m from the beach in spain (it was tempting to leave it there when full but I’m not that anti-social), at the supermarket when shopping (Lidl, Leclerc, Intermarché, Aldi.. ).

That’s just daft. If you’re that impatient a holiday must be hell for you. On my last holiday I arrived at destination and plugged the car in overnight at the campsite. On pervious holidays I’ve charged at the hotel, at a free 22kW charger 50m from the beach in spain (it was tempting to leave it there when full but I’m not that anti-social), at the supermarket when shopping (Lidl, Leclerc, Intermarché, Aldi.. ).

It’s not daft at all, as I said its not about getting from your home to the holiday destination. If you want to pop out for the day to do some activities but need a charge up you don’t want to be sitting around on a 50kw, it’s eating into your day out or as I linked in the post you spend your evenings charging up while the kids are asleep.

Trickle charging on a 3pin is a possibility but again if you’ve reached your location with a low battery an overnight wont top up much, depending on car it can take 2 to 3 days to fill up so even a 12hr stint over night might only give you a 25% top up.

Lucky you that you had a 22kw available to charge at, I’ve been researching cottages and hotels and the majority here don’t rather than the majority does to have that overnight 7kw+ charging and I dont intend on spending an hour in Lidl while on holiday, I can do that at home but again those typically only have up to 22kw type 2s so an hour would only give 31 miles.

On my last holiday I arrived at destination and plugged the car in overnight at the campsite

I’m sure most people would be happy to do that but I don’t think there are many campsites with EV charging.

There were quite a few 7kW chargers in car parks around West Wales, and this would have worked if we’d factored it in. Often we went into town for something and we could’ve grabbed an hour of charge. If we’d been with the EV we’d probably have gone in, shopped a bit then eaten out just so that we could put in maybe 2-3 hours. Presumably this is why the council put them in 🙂 With a bit of careful choice of beach etc we could probably have managed. But then, a 7kW charger in a 5m/kWh car is more useful than it is in a 3m/kWh car.

Nearly all campsites have standard blue camping sockets. That’s all you need. A camping blue socket to your national plug standard adaptor and then plug in your charger block. Ours works on every campsite with a 10A breaker which is every campsite we’ve visited with the car. Camper vans with heating need 16A connections so campsites usually have them.

you don’t want to be sitting around on a 50kw

That’s the fastest my Zoé will charge at. I’m unlikely to be down to less than 20% and don’t ussually charge above 90% so that’s 45minutes, once during my stay. That really isn’t going to ruin my holiday or even my day. I’m good at amusing myself, there’s usually a guitar in the car and a good book.

There were quite a few 7kW chargers in car parks around West Wales, and this would have worked if we’d factored it in. Often we went into town for something and we could’ve grabbed an hour of charge.

Theres also the 45min max charge factor for some of those types. Networks/councils may limit people parking their car up and disappearing all day blocking the charger up for others to use.

So they charge a penalty if you leave it for longer than that. That includes those 7kw types in car parks which I find hilarious as for example in the ID4 that 45mins would give 15 mmiles. At least if it was a 50kw it’d give about 110 miles.

you don’t want to be sitting around on a 50kw

50Kwh will give me 80 miles in about 30 minutes.

The new chargers in the centre of the town here are 22Kwh the idea is so people shop and walk around town while charging. The outside of town has 350Kwh chargers which are handy for those on a onward journey.

I’m unlikely to be down to less than 20% and don’t usually charge above 90% so that’s 45minutes, once during my stay.

I’m looking at a larger car with a bigger battery – 80kw+ market like the Etron/Enyaq, longer to charge and less economical. I will be charging up more than once, can assure you on that.

You have an amazing imagination Lary lamb but you need to provide evidence of those things.

Limited time: In Germany Lidl limits to 1h, just like every other shopper – it’s a parking limit time not a charging limit time. In the UK I used a Podpoint with a time limit so I went out and started it again as there was no-one waiting. In Berlin you get charged for squatting because it was becoming a major headache with hybrid owners squatting electric parking slots with full batteries – the penalty is just slightly more than the normal parking fee if you overstay.

I haven’t needed to use a charger lower than 18kW real in over 2 years, I’ve often chosen a 22kW over a 50+ because it was in a nicer/more convenient place. A 22kW in a supermarket car park wastes less time than a faster charger in the middle of nowhere.

The progress made in the last three years has been enormous, I no longer see a lack of charging infrastructure as a headache.

This is how I see the future. It’s in Germany. There’s a charging bay with chargers belonging to different suppliers – with space for more obviously at present. I’m on a cheapo Mobility+ compatible charger that was up to 150kW IIRC and the Porche was on a properly fast charger, over 250kW IIRC, I think the Porsche was the only car capable of making full use of it at the time. The e-Tron had used the faster one and was just faffing.

Taycan can charge at 350Kw the E Tron around 125Kwh

My Audi has alerted me that it requires a software update for the charging software, not sure what it’s for.

Those charging stations are coming – the question is when? And will the more out-of-the-way places get them?

You have an amazing imagination Lary lamb but you need to provide evidence of those things.

For what?

Look I’m on the EV bandwagon we’re getting one we just don’t see at this time how having one for the longer journeys is viable within our current lifestyle nor have faith in the reliability of the networks. Its not just me go on that speakev forum, members who have EVs say the same thing.

And will the more out-of-the-way places get them?

And that’s the thing, will the middle of Snowdonia or the Highlands get them? Or basically more of them north of Leeds, there’s hardly any 150+ in the north compared to the south.

Problem with these super charging points is we will need way more of them than fuel stations in the future simply because of the amount of time spent at one versus filling up with diesel. Queues will form very quickly so it’s no good there being a handful on the M6, A1 or M25.

Yes lots will charge at home but not everyone has that luxury (and batteries will get bigger so an overnight might not fill up on 7kwh) and add to that travellers it’ll soon clog up.

batteries will get bigger

Yup but will refill what people use overnight even on a 7kW which gives 84kWh in 12h. Most people don’t regularly do huge mileages back to back, and even if they do, 84kWh is going to get them a good distance before needing a charger.

Bigger batteries cut the number of people at charge points. That I know from personal experience. I also know that he bigger battery means I’m less concerned by areas with few chargers. I used to have to drive slowly from Bordeaux to la Loire but another 75km range gets me between chargers at normal speed.

There will no doubt be queues for chargers on the way to holiday destinations, in the same places that the volume of traffic currently causes delays. People will adopt strategies, such as an early charge, driving slowly and leaving when traffic is lighter. It might even eliminate the traffic jams.

Snowdonia and the Highlands are getting chargers, that was covered earlier in the thread. Have a little faith. In three and a half years of EV use I’ve gone from being dependant on a few strategic chargers to being able to charge almost anywhere and twice as fast. The trend will continue. I’ve never run out despite expecting to. When I bought the first Zoé Renault provided a free pick up for flat battery service. I expected to use it but a combination of luck and judgement meant I never did.

I really do find your obsession with 150kW chargers odd. I suggest you need a lifestyle change rather than faster chargers if you are in that much of a hurry. 😉

Has anyone any experience with a second hand Zoe?

It would be an older model maybe 2015 with battery lease.

How did you find the lease aspect and what was it like trying to sell it at the end? If a private sale how does the battery lease handover work?

Oh, and what was the real world range like?

Thanks

Look I’m on the EV bandwagon we’re getting one we just don’t see at this time how having one for the longer journeys is viable within our current lifestyle nor have faith in the reliability of the networks.

My commute to work is 220 miles in a Model 3 LR.

220 miles isn’t what I would call a long journey

I really do find your obsession with 150kW chargers odd. I suggest you need a lifestyle change rather than faster chargers if you are in that much of a hurry.

I don’t want to spend my time hunting working charging points and then sitting around for longer than necessary and I think you’ll find the masses won’t either in order to get the EV market really up and running.

I’ve got better things to do in my life.

I suggest you need a lifestyle change rather than faster chargers if you are in that much of a hurry.

Surely it’s not just about people being in a hurry. Faster charging is another way of adding capacity – either have more places to charge or make them charge faster so each place can accommodate more vehicles per day. (or both)

220 miles isn’t what I would call a long journey

Me, I’d say anything over 180 miles is a long journey.

220 miles isn’t what I would call a long journey

True, but you could easily do 220 miles + 20 minute stop to recharge and stretch legs + 220 miles without a problem.

And that’s the thing, will the middle of Snowdonia or the Highlands get them?

They’ll get fast chargers, but probably not the big charging hubs IMO.

Most people don’t regularly do huge mileages back to back

No but the point is that sometimes we do, for example on holiday, and those are the times they’re worried about. As am I, and I’m very much pro EV.

I’ve been thinking about going to one bigger EV after the lease is up and getting rid of diesel, but it has occurred to me that we’d need a high mileage allowance to cover potential holidays and that could be prohibitively expensive. And there’s no way we can afford to actually buy a £50k car. Well, we could, but it would take a massive chunk of our monthly disposable income and be pretty imprudent.

Perhaps it’s a Scottish thing because of CPS, but one of the big reasons we were OK getting on board was how long we spent parked next to chargers. We ride bikes eh. Had become aware of them and noticed how many were everywhere we ride.

Dunkeld, Aberfeldy, Ballater, Peebles, Pitlochry, Aviemore… Even Laggan trail centre.

This weekends riding involved a 45 min charge on the inners rapid. Got back from riding and plugged it in before sorting the bikes. A wipe down, re-lube, changed and ate a sandwich and the van is back at 95% ready for the week. Free fuel. No hunting, no waiting, just making use of the time we were busy and near the van.

Isn’t part of the solution to have generic chargers at the hubs – with the option to use your supplier of choice – then competition is for subscriptions to suppliers, or extension on your domestic tariff to get cheaper prices etc – and the infrastructure costs are reduced to a shared overhead

It can’t be that expensive to put in generic rapid charges in rural villages and towns if all suppliers can be accessed through a single charger

Nearly all campsites have standard blue camping sockets.

So campsites that have electric hook up and you get a pitch that has electric hook up? i.e. all campsites that have charges have a charger where they have charger.

I suspect outdoor activity hubs like trail centres will get them first.

Re campsites – many won’t appreciate you plugging your car into the hookup points. Caravan club have said that they don’t want you plugging directly into the pillar on their main sites, you have to plug into the van itself; and you have to check to make sure they can handle the extra draw. So don’t rock up expecting to be able to plug in – check when you book.

If the campsite’s electrical supply is safe for a kettle it’s safe for an electric car, they’re both about 10A. I’ve used campsites in the UK, Spain, Germany, France without issue. They have circuit breakers on every electrical point. If the breaker is rated higher than it is safe to draw I suggest you report them to the local authorities for an unsafe electrical installation. A camper van with electrical heating will draw significantly more than an EV.

The whole point of the 10A charger block is that you can safely plug it in anywhere with an electrcial supply that complies with the regulations. I just ask what breaker rating they have in the boxes.