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I must admit I don’t really understand those graphs , all I know is I get a better miles per charge by running up and down a fairly flat motorway at 65mph than I do running round town and on A and B roads even with the regen braking set to max. From what I have read before I went to EV , that shouldn’t be the case.
We have recently dived into the world of EV. We have a Hyundai Kona Electric. First impressions are very good. Very easy to drive amd love the recouperative braking in the city as it almost makes the brake pedal redundant.At the moment we are charging at home on regular mains which takes all night but works for us but we are planning to get a wall box installed later in the year.
Electric cars are easy to spot in Germany as the newer ones have an E at the end of the license plate. But what I have noticed is a lot of the German manufactures , yes I'm looking at you BMW, Audi and Mercedes have fake exhaust pipes at the back!! WTactualF? Also I'd read that some BMW models have a speaker that plays an ICE motor when you accelerate hard. I thought it was a joke but I could definitely hear an engine sound when a BMW X something or pther bombed past me on the bike at the weekend but it had an E on the plate. Why yould anyone want to have this???
Hi RoterStern
It seems like what you are seeing are Plugin Hybrids. BMW X5 plug in hybrids can have E at the end of their number plates. BMWs that are full electric have names with i, eg. BMW iX3. The fake engine noise is not played outside at speed in BMWs, but you can choose to have it internally(no idea why you would want it!). At low speed there are noise generators in many electric cars as a warning to pedestrians.
Here in Austria electric cars have green letters instead of black, but not the plugin hybrids.
The Porsche Taycan definitely plays external ICE/race car noises at low speed, have heard a few now when out walking. I assume some legislation came in to play in the UK about low speed audible warning of EVs moving as my Tesla M3 (March '20 registered) is absolutely silent but my wife's ID3 (July '21 registered) makes a weird spaceship noise.
I can't count the amount of times people walk out in front of my car in car parks.. sometimes for quite considerable amounts of time if they've walking the same way as I'm driving! I don't want to beep and startle them so I just crawl behind them until they're out the way, so the external noise does seem a sensible idea but I agree the brum brum noises are a bit silly.
At low speeds Hyundai plays a recreation of the sound made by the actual electric motor at higher speeds. It's very quiet inside the car but it's a monotone whine which is a bit irritating.
A fair few minor annoyances in that car, but I worked out that a trip to Coed y Brenin would cost around £50 in our other car vs about £15 in the EV!
I'd want the car to make Tie Fighter noises.
I wish my ID£ would make a variety of noises. I quite fancy being an ice-cream van 🙂
I’d want the car to make Tie Fighter noises.
Land speeder or speeder bike surely?
I wish my ID£ would make a variety of noises. I quite fancy being an ice-cream van 🙂
Top tip: you can achieve the same effect by spraying 'free candy' on the side of your car.
I’d want the car to make Tie Fighter noises.
If you buy a Mercedes EQS or EQE you can have sound themes that I think are downloadable, for interior use. So yeah some one will probably make one eventually.
If you buy a Mercedes EQS or EQE
Bit out of my price range - I'll stick to riding my bike to work and making funny noises, or take a boom box. Greener, and just needs banana's as fuel rather than leccy. 🙂
Pretty sure you could rig up something like this...
Almost bought one of those a few years ago for the 24:12 but figured the novelty would probably wear off after about 3 mins.
Bit out of my price range
Sadly mine too 🙂 EQE would be my lottery win car I think.
Hmm. Turbospoke: I think we can do better than that nowadays, can't we? How about a digital noise generation device that hooks up to your cadence, wheel speed and power meter, and generates a motorbike noise of your choice including changing gears at the right time?
THAT would be cool AF.
molgrips
Hmm. Turbospoke: I think we can do better than that nowadays, can’t we? How about a digital noise generation device that hooks up to your cadence, wheel speed and power meter, and generates a motorbike noise of your choice including changing gears at the right time?
Sounds like you've just sucked all the fun out of it 😉
It seems like what you are seeing are Plugin Hybrids. BMW X5 plug in hybrids can have E at the end of their number plates.
Ah, that would explain it then! I assumed the E was only for electric cars and not the plug-in hybrids.
My car makes a kind of television white noise sound in electric mode, up to 19mph (I think). Don’t know if it does that when the engine is running, but as the engine is about as refined as a petrol lawnmower unit, it’s probably not needed.
all I know is I get a better miles per charge by running up and down a fairly flat motorway at 65mph than I do running round town and on A and B roads even with the regen braking set to max
I'm still trying to understand this myself - the below is just my opinion. The air resistance will be higher at higher speeds, but if you can maintain a constant speed that's better than slowing for bends or stop/start for junctions. Regen braking only puts back about 75% of the energy accelerating took out; I think you lose about 15% in the motor (that is, the kinetic energy added to the car is only 85% of the electrical energy taken from the battery, some is lost in heat) and about 10% on recharging (kinetic to battery energy).
I don't know if other BEVs are the same, on my WV e-Up, the brake pedal works by regen unless you brake hard, and you have 4 levels of regen (or none) that you can chose for when you let it coast. Putting it on max means you'll stuff energy back into the battery when you take your foot off, but the efficiency loss getting that speed back means it drains the battery more than if you coast.
Putting it on max
That setting only affects the driving technique, it makes no difference to how much energy you actually recuperate. If you slow down at a certain rate it'll regen the same regardless of whether or not you lift off the accelerator or touch the brake pedal.
If you slow down at a certain rate it’ll regen the same regardless of whether or not you lift off the accelerator or touch the brake pedal.
Agreed. The point I'm trying to make is that if having it on max means you slow down more than than you would otherwise, you lose efficiency. Braking an ICE car, you lose all the energy you take out, in a BEV you still lose 25% even with regen.
A nice long trip from Cardiff to Brechfa today in the EV, only to find it was closed so we came back via Afan, all on one charge. 5.1 m/kWh on the way there, 4.9 on the way back which is quite decent - seems to be a little better than the motorway trips I did last summer in good weather. It's possible the mechanical components have run in a bit.
Some weirdness though, on the way home it claimed that there was 25 miles to go with 10% battery remaining, which would mean it'd be doing 250 miles on a charge which it wasn't doing, and generally doesn't do, at least not to my knowledge. It has a 38kWh battery which even if fully used would give 186 miles on a charge not 250.
Anyone else had inconsistent range readings?
Oh and I found an energy consumption page in the app. The other day on a commuting day (5 miles each way, slow narrow lanes and streets) it reported 70% of the charge used went on moving the car, 19% on powering 'electronics' and 9% on HVAC. That 19% is a fair bit for electronics - it must include all the systems like all the ECUs, radar, cameras, ABS, power steering and all the rest of it.
Today on the motorway/hilly B road route it said 95% on moving the car, which makes more sense if I was going much faster. It says energy consumption was 31.45kWh, and recuperation was 9.67kWh. I'm not sure if the consumption is gross, or net with the recuperation taken off.
recuperation was 9.67kWh
Your car is telling you porkie pies, I don't get that out of the Zoé when doing two Pyrénéen cols one after the other with all the braking on regen. To recover 9.67kWh requires at least 12kWh given inefficiences - recovering nearly half of energy used on the journey you quote is impossible unless you constantly accelerate hard from 40 to 50 and then use max regen to slow to 40 then accelerate hard... .
Some the information on these cars' readouts needs to be taken with a generous pinch of salt, experience will tell you which.
Surely Kwh is rate of consumption, not amount consumed?
Surely Kwh is rate of consumption, not amount consumed?
kW is rate of consumtion. kWh is amount consumed. A watt is a joule per second IIRC.
Fair enough, had forgotten that.
What home charges are preferred - any real difference other than price.
Also- is there any real issue with charging of a 3 pin plug long term. I assume the stuff about battery life I've read is nonsense as the car will manage the charging cycle not the charger.
Are the potential overhead issues from drawing a high current over an extended period genuine?
Wallbox installed by Danlec was the cheapest option I found. However I think the £350 grant expires on 30 March.
Also- is there any real issue with charging of a 3 pin plug long term.
We've had some issues with charging from mains in very very hot climates and very very cold climates (far worse in hot temps), don't have enough grunt to cool/heat the battery properly AND charge it at any appreciable rate. So the car takes a decision to charge at a "non-optimal" battery temperature. Depends on the battery chemistry and charging strategy to determine exactly how much damage it'll do. It can be optimised out, but leads to much longer charging times. Overnight charging in the UK should be fine for 51 weeks of the year, daytime charging, probably 48 weeks. 😉
Make sure your electrics are up to it. Wall sockets and wiring generally aren't up to pulling full load continually for several hours. And it's only the charge cable that'll have any sort of inbuilt monitoring. Have had an issue with this before, the socket outside the garage buzzes horrifically and gets warm when i plug a PHEV in, the one inside does nothing, just charges.
I'll be getting a proper wall box when/if i get a PHEV.
Whilst I agree that charging with a three pin is less efficient you'd have to have very dodgy electrics for a 2kW continuous load to overload your house electrics. It's only like plugging in an electric heater. The charge block is very sensitive to the quality of your earth and won't charge if there's a poor earth or leaks. Your car is probably one of the safer 2kW appliances you plug in.
I use a greenup socket which allows a 3.2kW charge on a three pin. If that's not fast enough there's a public charge point not far away.
If I had a dodgy socket as you describe, I'd change it.
The Porsche Taycan definitely plays external ICE/race car noises at low speed
I was next to one the other day - didn't know if it was that I could hear or my V8 tbh
Not reading 55 pages, so possibly been mentioned before, but if I have one any time soon, it will likely be this
Our Rolec home charger is now installed, benefitted from the grant (just about). But we've just had the news that our ID3 won't be here in April as promised, but now 'early June'. That's an order from the end of September; at least it seems there's now a build week. I was expecting 6 months, let's see if it can come before 9! 🙂
Not sure what the latest status is, but all those cars playing external racecar noises, or with programmable exterior sounds will probably have their wings clipped soon. New legislation in many markets is going to start controlling exterior noises...
If I had a dodgy socket as you describe, I’d change it.
It's a newish socket (2016 or 17 i think), just been hammered by pulling ~3kW through it regularly. IIRC CANalyser usually reported 2,7kW into the onboard charger.
Apparently most domestic sockets aren't *really* rated for that sort of continuous loading/duty cycle. Most devices either cycle once they are up to operating range, or aren't used continually at full load for 16-18 hours several times a week. Anyway, it's not going to overload the house electrics, so i'll get a wallbox if the car is ordered, everythings fused and earthed properly, and i have a few spare slots on the garage fusebox, even space for a three phase supply. Until that happens i'll just use one of the other sockets if i need to.
What home charges are preferred
I like my Ohme one but I've only used that one. It was recommended by an installer who wasn't tied to any brand.
Another good run today, that's 313 miles this weekend driven, for £3.13. Astonishing.
I've got a Podoint and seems to do what it's meant to do and charge the car.
I have a Zappi, which allows me to optimise use of the PV panels I have.
I've got Ohme (it's actually an old Rolec untethered non smart box with an Ohme smart cable plugged in). Ohme are one of the brands that work with Octopus Agile tarrif to cherry pick the cheapest half hrs (if leccy prices ever return to normal).
Hideous looking thing in my opinion and I don't understand why car manufacturers think touch screens are a good idea
Touch screens have several advantages. They are easier to implement than buttons, cheaper, more configurable, upgradeable, and you don't need endless dashboard real-estate to accomodate ever more buttons because you have multiple pages with different stuff on.
The downside is that they need to be well designed (I've moaned on here many times about the Hyundai one) but the biggest issue is that actually using a touchscreen with small buttons on it is really hard whilst driving. I think that Polestar have a hand-rest to use whilst operating the touch screen, this would be a brilliant idea.
The knob on earlier Mercs is good because you don't have to lean forwards to operate the screen. Although you do have to look at it, but you're operating a cursor to go through the various options and this stays in place. So you only need to glance at the screen, move the cursor three clicks to the left whilst your eyes on the road, then glance back at the screen to see where your next option is etc. They now have a little touchpad by your hand instead of a knob, not sure what they are like to use.
Took the plunge last week and ordered a Volvo XC40 Recharge 170kW/69kWh as my new company car - 6-8 month lead-time so won't see it much before Christmas.
I know next to nothing about BEVs - main driver for this choice was the drop in company car tax from my current Diesel BMW.
Anyone else got an XC40 Recharge? what do you think of it?
I will be changing my car in around 18 months, as currently 15 months into a 4 yr PCP on a diesel SUV. Workplace lease deal with salary sacrifice through Tusker seems to be a sensible cost effective way to do it, with all servicing, maintenance and insurance included. Have had a play on their quote generator and the Audi etron quattro and the Tesla Model Y come about the same, and work out around same as i currently pay, before the fuel saving. Long lead times, 25 weeks on the Tesla and 57 on the Audi, so I probably need to do something about confirming in the next 6 months.
Long lead times, 25 weeks on the Tesla and 57 on the Audi
The Audi has been taken off our CC list for this very reason.
My other options were VW ID4 and a similar sized Skoda - both on a 12 month minimum lead-time so the Volvo won.
Just had a wallbox fitted for the Skoda, much more convenient.
The app allows me to input a unit price for the electric and then it keeps tabs on how much charging costs.
So I found my latest bill and were currently on 20.1p per kWh. A full charge last night (12.41kwh over 8hrs) cost £2.50. A full charge gives 30 miles.
So 8p per mile as opposed to maybe 12p for the previous full ICE Skoda we had.
How do these figures stack up?
A full charge gives 30 miles
That's not very far on 12.41 kWh. I get 100km out of that from the Zoé which is 60 miles.
On the other hand 12p per mile for an ICE with petrol/diesel around £1.80 per litre or £8.20 a gallon means you were getting 68mpg.
We've learned that you drive incredibly economically in an ICE car and catastrophically uneconomically in an EV.
I was getting at least 45 miles at motorway speeds from my ID4 off that charge, nearer 50 just trundling.
@edukator - you get almost 450km out of the 52kWh Zoe? Really?
I think our i3 is lighter than your Zoe and we only get 200km from a 33kWh battery in mixed conditions. In summer that would get to maybe 240-250km, but not over the full year.
A full charge last night (12.41kwh over 8hrs) cost £2.50. . A full charge gives 30 miles.
I can get 40 miles from a 10.6 kWh (usable) battery, with my PHEV if I’m careful. Not at the moment though, as it’s a bit chilly. Probably more like 32/33.
At 3 mpkWH I would have imagined 36 miles would be achievable on a 12.41 kWh battery without too much problem and well over 40 once temperatures rise.
We’ve learned that you drive incredibly economically in an ICE car and catastrophically uneconomically in an EV.
Impressive* you got all that data to make an accusation like that from someone driving a plug in hybrid with a book range of 37miles.
I'd say he's doing not bad.
* But I expect no less.
On the other hand 12p per mile for an ICE with petrol/diesel around £1.80 per litre or £8.20 a gallon means you were getting 68mpg.
Very quick cash packet maths that. I'll have another go. I was getting about 45mpg out of the last Octavia we had, it was petrol 1.5tsi. So maybe more like 16p per mile (I think)
The max range out of a full charge I've seen so far is 31 miles. On colder days it's been <30 and drops very quickly when driving.
So maybe 8p per mile versus 16p.
Long lead times, 25 weeks on the Tesla
Seems a very long wait for the Model Y now it is made in China. Tesla have them available for delivery next month? They just keep flowing through the Trafford Centre: delivery, pickups, delivery, …
Plus, Berlin should be producing them later in the year too.
52 / 12.41 x 100 = 419km rather than 450km Daffy, over 400km is common. It's been on charge over night after some trips along D roads and some shopping around town, I'll go and see what it says.
Edit to add:
It's been chilly but not cold enough to use the heater, cold enough to limit regen though not that that changes much as I drive around the regen that's available. As it gets warmer we'll drop below 12kWh/100.
In fact we already are below 12kWh/100:
However, you've just cost me a km with the energy that went into battery conditionning (see the +1 kW) while I was taking the photos, it's 2°C out.
Currently I have been getting around 145 miles out of mine but I put the heater and heated seats on as I’m not sitting cold for the sake of a little more range. A full charge was costing around £10.50 probably be near £15 from today.
It’s been on charge over night
Do you normally charge to 100%? The advice for our e-Up, to extend battery life, was not to charge to more than 80% unless you need the full range, and in that case set the timers so that it only hits 100% just before you leave.
Annoyingly, the VW "WeConnect" app only allows you to set the charge percentage if you set up a charge cycle, you can't set a default for when you just plug it in.
The Skoda gets you to set a rough departure time, then it charges to 100% ready for that time. Not sure you can alter the max charge, I don't think it suggests doing that anywhere in the manual.
8p Vs 16p a mile is good at face value, but given the extra cost of the car and the cost of a wallbox, it would be a hard sell to a lot of skeptics.
No, It's the second/third time this year I've fully charged, I've got a long trip to do this weekend. Slow charging to 100% gets a few more kms than on a fast charger. After fast charging it drops to 99% after a couple of kms but after a slow charge it'll do up to 10km before dropping to 99%.
Does anyone here have a Polestar? (Apologies, not read through the thread other than occasionally having a look.)
I've just put my order in for a new company car - A Volvo XC40 Recharge 170kW 69kWh
Estimated Delivery Date 12-Jan-2023!!
Looks like i've got bit of time to save up for the wall box!
So 8p per mile as opposed to maybe 12p for the previous full ICE Skoda we had.
How do these figures stack up?
I think you need to get on Octopus Go - are they still doing that?
Free agent - sadly wait times have just gone mad again. Most manufacturers are in the same boat.
Currently I have been getting around 145 miles out of mine but I put the heater and heated seats on as I’m not sitting cold for the sake of a little more range.
MrsGrahamS is a big fan of the scheduled climate settings. She leaves about the same time most mornings, so the car is set to heat itself up for that time. This has two benefits: 1) you get into a nice warm car on a cold morning 2) it does this while it is still plugged in so it doesn't kill your range.
Our eNiro2 (poverty spec) will only do preheat if its plugged in.
I figured out its only really worth doing if its truly baltic, it seems to use the house power and not the battery, at that time of the morning we are not using the off-peak rate so its going to cost more. basically we just bosh on the heater and its toasty in a couple of min, range obviously takes a hit but that not an issue, its very rare we need it all anyway.
it does this while it is still plugged in so it doesn’t kill your range.
Unless you are going on a 150 mile journey that doesn't much matter. If don't pre-heat, it will use energy from the battery to warm things up, but this is energy you could be putting in much more cheaply at 4am. I only do pre-heats if it's going to be icy so the windows are defrosted.
What MrChrispy said.
@geuben, how long for? How has it been? (In general, everything I read or every YouTube review is pretty positive so I’m trawling for negatives 😀)
Since November. I have the dual motor version.
The app is terrible.
The "phone as a key" system seemed so unreliable I haven't bothered to set it up as I don't want to use it and it fail.
The Android Automotive system is a bit void of apps this far.
The reversing light might as well not exist, it illuminates nothing.
The reversing camera is crap at night.
The 360 camera view is a bit blurry and warped (much more so than other cars).
The automatic braking in reverse is sometimes scared of its own shadow. When it activates it's a bit alarming!
The customer service is pretty woeful.
It's not a particularly efficient EV. Around 35kWh/100miles over winter. I did get a 29.8kWh/100mile trip (about 60 miles in length) the other week when it warmed up.
Not as fast to charge as the Ionic5/EV6.
Overall though I really like it, driving it makes up for the above.
Slow charging to 100% gets a few more kms than on a fast charger. After fast charging it drops to 99% after a couple of kms but after a slow charge it’ll do up to 10km before dropping to 99%.
Thanks, I thought that might be the case.
Thanks @geuben 👍
Test drove one on Saturday (morning, so didn’t get to experience the 360deg camera at night - though thought it was fine. Parking was like playing a video game on the screen). I did thoroughly enjoy the drive though. We’ve got the Single Motor Long Range on the way.
Only (major) disappointment is that it won’t come with CarPlay - not due till 2023 - I wonder if that will be installed as an OTA update?
@molgrips Octopus are still allowing the switch to Octopus Go at the moment, or they did for me on 17th March. My rates are fixed @ 7.5p/kW from 00:30 to 04:30 and 30.78p otherwise, and 25.08p standing charge. You have to switch to a standard fixed tariff first (takes 2 weeks from existing supplier), then they will switch you to Go once they've established a connection to your smart meter.
I have to say they've been very good. Customer service is excellent so far. I thought they'd keep me on the fixed, expensive tariff for ages but they connected me to Go the day after I switched. They do a £50 referral offer too (for both parties) if you'd like my referral code 😉
My rates are fixed @ 7.5p/kW from 00:30 to 04:30 and 30.78p otherwise, and 25.08p standing charge
Interesting to know - I'm on 5/19p until June, so I've got a reasonable idea what it's going up to. A 50% increase in fuel costs is bearable when they are so low to begin with!
I'm with shell. No ev tariffs currently available. Rate has just gone from 20p to 28p
I’m with shell. No ev tariffs currently available. Rate has just gone from 20p to 28p
I was with Shell before. I think their standing charge was going up to around 48p per day too?
@deadlydarcy the latest word was Apple car play is due Spring 2022.. so anytime now. There will be some very annoyed people if it's another year. I've no need for it so haven't missed it, I think quite a few have actually decided they don't miss it that much. The Bluetooth integration does most things and the native android stuff is good. The Google maps integration is continually getting better; it tells you your battery % on arrival with pretty good accuracy and says how much you'll have if you do a return trip. It finds you chargers (not all of them though) and tells you their availability and can filter on charger speed and payment options and conditions the battery for arrival when navigating to one.
standing charge was going up to around 48p per day too
Yes, 42p from 24.
Just been looking at octopus go. 4hrs at 7.5p, rest of time at 31p, standing charge 41p I think.
I'll need to look into this as EV arriving v soon and dual fuel tariff ends July (typical).
Looks like you'd really need to max out the Octopus low rate hours to offset their high unit charge (compared to that shell one). I guess making the big ticket items like car, dishwasher and washing machine all timed for those hours is the way to do it.
Does anyone know roughly what % of 'leccy units on the bill having an average mileage EV is?
2,750 units roughly, assuming 10,000 miles per year, 4 miles to the kWh and 90% efficiency during the charge.
I'm not sure if a tariff like Go will work out cheaper for us, or mileage isn't that high and with it being a PHEV, any longer journeys use petrol anyway.
@mulv1976 are your Go rates fixed for a term or will it be subject to the next jump in process in October? I can't find anything definitive on the website. If is fixed for a year from now, it probably will be worth us looking at.
Had my first use of an ionity charger last night, as the 2 grid serves (at 39p / kw) were full. Bit of a shock at the price but needs must. The cost of power from these at 69p a kw takes away the fuel runnning cost benefit (assuming 4 miles / kw), also meaning company mileage payments don’t cover it! Being on octopus go insulated from this most of the time (and makes up for the ‘loss’ on mileage payment)but that can’t last forever.
It was however quick to charge, but I can’t take full advantage of the crazy fast charge rates with my vehicle .
I guess making the big ticket items like car, dishwasher and washing machine all timed for those hours is the way to do it.
all the high risk items giving it laldy as you sleep . no thanks.
I intend to fit a timer to heat my hot water using the off peak leccy. Seems it might work out a similar price but I suspect more efficient in energy terms.
@richardkennerley its fixed until 18th March 2023. I also have the advantage of solar and a home storage battery, so I'm able to charge that for use during the more expensive hours. Its ideal as I don't do that many miles in the EV.
Currently I have been getting around 145 miles out of mine but I put the heater and heated seats on as I’m not sitting cold for the sake of a little more range.
Ok, as a diesel driver and knowing my next car will be an EV, comments like this concern me. I've also watched a fair few YouTube vids too, and getting a sneaky feeling that there are a load of EV drivers NOT using heating and the like.
When I get in my car, I always switch on the heated seat & steering wheel, my AC sits at 21c, have the radio/Spotify on, and phone plugged in. If I've the bike on the towbar rack, I usually have the passenger heated seat on pre-warming my gloves/helmet/jacket. And I live in rural Scotland, on average 5c less than the South East, and most driving is open roads & higher speeds.
Current lifetime average of my car is nearly 50mpg, which for an auto AWD family-sized saloon is I think very good, but what impact will this all have on an EV#'s range?
