The Electric Car Thread

And the reason I opened this thread…….

We have a NissanTownstar van at work which apart from it being too small (compared to the Ducato it replaced) has been well received. Question though (which I could probably Google), at what point do the brake lights come on when using regen braking? It has 3 levels with #3 being quite sharp/heavy braking and the default being very mild.

I’d expect it to be linked to the deceleration rate, rather than the regen setting (it is on my car).

There are multiple systems that can request a deceleration (adaptive cruise, collision avoidance, even the driver), with higher regen levels your really just getting more “engine breaking” (in an ICE sense), before having to press the brake pedal. Even when you press the brake pedal, the demanded deceleration may be achieved just by regen breaking, without the foundation brakes (disks and pads) having to get involved. Foundation brakes usually come in as you come to a stop, as they’ll be needed for auto-hold type features.

There may be some variance between different cars depending on how well they’ve tuned the brake blending algorithms.

Pop out door handles: is there any actual benefit?

Aero, that’s about it. We’ve been chasing the next 0,1% of drag reduction since i started in the industry.

The aero stuff you have now on a stock family saloon would have only been found on a very economy focused car (Prius sort of thing) 15-20 years ago. Pop out handles apparently look cool as well, according to the styling guys…

I’d expect it to be linked to the deceleration rate, rather than the regen setting (it is on my car).

It is. 3 years ago, industry guideline was 1.2 m/s2 deceleration for brakelights on with vehicle instructed deceleration. 200ms timer for driver instructed (after detection of pressing the brake pedal). Most manufacturers hit the lights around 1m/s2 for all the auto deceleration systems.

Makes no difference to what braking system is actually used, just the input (pedal/automatic) and the net rate of deceleration.

I think regen braking is better on snow or ice , as is anything else that stops sudden acceleration, deceleration

What car is that @B.A.Nana?

Model3 so ignore me, I’ve since re-read what you wrote and realised I initially misunderstood the context of what you wrote. So yes the model3 / Y is a manual handle that has some advantage when frozen. TBH They’re a love/ hate design, it looks nice having clean lines, but you’re forever having to open the doors for people who’ve never used a Tesla door handle before.

TBH They’re a love/ hate design, it looks nice having clean lines, but you’re forever having to open the doors for people who’ve never used a Tesla door handle before.

About 25 years ago I owned a TVR cerbera , they didnt have door handles at all, just a small button under the wing mirror that when pressed would pop the door open. That confused everyone…

@Mert

Most manufacturers hit the lights around 1m/s2 for all the auto deceleration systems.

Would our Townstar have a decelerometer? Or is it as simple as setting #1 no brake lights, setting #3 = brake lights.

Its regen braking feels inline with a coasting ICE engined car in setting 1 but setting 3 is like using the discs&pads brakes and is fairly hard braking/regen.

Would our Townstar have a decelerometer?

No idea, it’s definitely got a speedo though. It’ll just measure rate of change of wheelspeed.

(Some cars do measure using accelerometers though.)

@Convert

“I’m sure I read many pages back reference to avoiding the Jaguar I Pace. Anyone care to expand why?”

I’ve just got an I-Pace, one of the very last Jags before they become JaGUar..

A friend of mine had one and it was a nightmare, for the reasons @Julians has covered. I chose mine because I got a great deal on a new one, time will tell whether I’ve made a massive cock-up, but it’s on a 3 year lease so I can get out of it if needed. It’s a great car with some very nice features, definately feels special to drive.

Decided on a Hyundai Kona. Will collect it on Saturday. Looking forward to the heated steering wheel, blind spot detectors and adaptive cruise; all things that my e-Tron doesn’t have.

Good choice. What battery?  I don’t use my heated steering wheel but the other features are gold. Assuming your adaptive cruise is the same as mine, it does full start/stop traffic crawling, which is the best feature this side of self driving.

Agreed on adaptive cruise in stop/start traffic, couldn’t do without it now. In fact, that plus general smoothness and quietness of EV driving make it a completely calmer and much more relaxing experience.

Quick comment on first big negative tick against ID.Buzz – the stupid R21 Grand Prix car width tyres in 104/108 load rating for the heavy beast have zero All-Season tire options. Maybe one full winter that I can find, but that is disappointing. Summer tires and back up socks it is.

101/105 yes, but given how heavy the buzz is, especially if loaded up for a big trip, I am not keen on playing with tyres with a lighter load rating.

Yeah I am not a fan at all of big wheels.  You might get lucky looking for used VAG wheels with the right offset in a more sensible size.

Quick comment on first big negative tick against ID.Buzz – the stupid R21 Grand Prix car width tyres in 104/108 load rating for the heavy beast have zero All-Season tire options. Maybe one full winter that I can find, but that is disappointing. Summer tires and back up socks it is.

Can’t even find many full winters in those sizes and load ratings (3 for the fronts and 2 for the rears), and no all seasons at all.

Might be time for some winter wheels…

500 mile round trip to do on Friday (Coming back early saturday).

Googled Tesla charging points on route.  Found 1 in stoke.  Sent location to car.  Job jobbed.  I reckon a 30 min charge on the way there and a 30 min charge on way back and i will be golden.  Total cost about £40 for the entire journey.

In fact, that plus general smoothness and quietness of EV driving make it a completely calmer and much more relaxing experience.

So today I had my first go in an EV and the big takeway from it was that it was just such a calm experience!
That and just how cheap it is to run 🙂
Did around 50 miles on all sorts of roads (motorway, A and little country roads) and it averaged out at 36kWh/100 miles apparently…… and it was in a car that’s not exactly supposed to focus on economy!

Getting back into MrsSB’s Boxster was quite a shock!  I now get most of the stuff about EV’s – it’s not perfect for me as I can carry more in my current car and the other one doesn’t allow towing, but it definitely ticks most of the boxes.

Very interesting.

Yeah I am not a fan at all of big wheels

Nor am I. The tyre options for the original BMW i3 weren’t great and around £250 each, so that put me off the i3.

Googled Tesla charging points on route. Found 1 in stoke

I used the Trentham gardens Tesla chargers a few months ago. Busy at the weekend when I called in.

Any thoughts on the likely outcomes of the reported “fast track” consolation on EV sales?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c98dzyy850jo

I’m hoping for some strong incentives for private buyers but expecting it’ll end up as a way for manufacturers to fudge the figures so they get appeased while the government doesn’t have to back down on its targets.

Thanks for the headsup retrorick.  I will be turning up at some quite unsociable hours so i am hoping that might not apply to me.  Fingers crossed

FWIW on Hyundai Ioniq 5s and maybe 6s there is a factory option for 18″ wheels rather than 20s, but it’s not advertised because 20 is standard.  The wheels are also available from dealers after market but they aren’t cheap. They are aero though apparently which would be a bit more efficient than the usual aftermarket boy racer nonsense.

What sort of efficiency gain might you expect on smaller wheels?

Is this because they are just more aero?

My understanding is that smaller wheels with more tyre sidewall have lower rolling resistance. I dont know if this is true or not, but i remember when ordering a Corolla a few years ago that the higher spec (bigger wheel) models had slightly increased emissions and lower mpg.

Any thoughts on the likely outcomes of the reported “fast track” consolation on EV sales?

I see the anti-EV brigade are already flooding Youtube with clickbait videos proclaiming the death of the ZEV mandate despite the government stating that it is going to remain. Not that I’ve watched any but they were quick to jump on this bit of “news”.

I’d expect a bit of can-kicking with lots of warm words about the overall goals remaining the same.

I’m not really sure where I stand on the ZEV mandate to be honest. On the one hand, given recent stories about melting Antarctic ice and a possible slowdown/shutdown of the AMOC, any relaxing of the push towards greener transportation seems daft. On the other hand I’m not sure that fining car manufacturers because customers don’t want their EVs is going to do anything other than accelerate the demise of European car making as they are forced to either sell cars at a loss or buy credits from the likes of BYD.

I don’t mind a bit of stick given the scale of the challenge but some more carrot might be more effective. Although, given the state of the national finances maybe sticks are all they can afford.

On the other hand I’m not sure that fining car manufacturers because customers don’t want their EVs is going to do anything

I’m with you on this…. seems very harsh but maybe that’s what’s needed.  You do wonder about the effect on manufacturers though.

ordering a Corolla a few years ago that the higher spec (bigger wheel) models had slightly increased emissions and lower mpg.

I think it’s a combination of ‘bigger wheel generally = wider tyre therefore greater rolling resistance” (times four, obviously) combined with the higher spec model will often be heavier due to more fancy on-board standard fittings. All of which require burning more fuel to pull it along, as a bit of a simplification. The same generalisation prob applies to EVs too

On the other hand I’m not sure that fining car manufacturers because customers don’t want their EVs is going to do anything

Already have some fines of sorts in some markets on engine size/emissions. It’s one reason that the Prius exists, it brought Toyotas fleet average down massively in the US. So Toyota could carry on making and selling larger vehicles and trucks, that their customers loved. But every sale attracted an additional cost.

I’m not convinced it’s actually a reduction in demand for EVs as such, more for European / traditional OEMs EV’s.
Given how much cheaper and better equipped the Chinese competition is, I think the European EVs struggle to look competitive. I’m seeing a rapid increase in BYD, MG etc cars on the roads when out and about.

Any punitive action from the UK and European governments needs to be quite carefully considered to avoid increasing the damage to the European car industry.

IMO the cost of public charging is a negative at the moment.  people quite rightly thing “hangon, thats about the same a tank of fuel” which it is but its not every charge, its usually only when you away from home (assuming you can charge at home).  it makes the move to EV a little bit harder to justify, get public charging down from 80-90/p/kWh to 30-40p/kWh and suddenly its nudging people in the direction you want.

The very least they could do for people without home charging is roll out a subscription programme where you pay monthly and get a seriously reduced tariff at the rapid charger.  They already do something like this but I’m not sure it’s enough.

As said, public charging costs need to come down on fast chargers.  There are a lot of people who don’t have off road parking and can’t take advantage of the cheaper tariffs.

My employer is moving to EVs, however I know someone with a terraced house in York and another in Norwich who have no way to charge at home, making them impractical.

They can use fast chargers yes, but the cost of those is very touch and go when claiming mileage back, in some cases it ends up with the user out of pocket.

I just checked, you can get Ionity (for example) at 43p if you pay £10/mo.  If you are rapid charging more than about.. <fumbles with calculator..> 100 miles a month is depending on your efficiency? Then it might be worth it.  So clearly for someone depending on rapid charging it would be well worth it.  But not for someone like me only doing the occasional trip.

almost certainly covered but on a 193 page thread I am not searching with the quality of search….

My current Polo is nearing the end of its PCP, looking at offers available. a base spec ID3 is about the same price. For 90% of my use the range would be fine. but, If I drive down to the Swiss alps, how realistic, how long is this likely to take? Just wondering how c50kwh batteries rate for longer journeys.

alps, how realistic, how long is this likely to take? Just wondering how c50kwh batteries rate for longer journeys.

I have a 58kw Cupra Born (an ID3 basically but it was cheaper). Knocking about on short journeys I get 5-6km+ per kw. On long fully loaded motorway trips driving at 120kmph+ it drops to about 4-5km per kw.  My 700km trip involves 2 stops (after 250km and about 450km, stopping for about 45mins x2) and I arrive with very little charge. If I wanted to arrive with more charge as a safety net I do a quick 15 min 3rd stop to top up (or I could drive slower). Basically I get 200-250km between charges (usually charge to 80% only for speed hence the drop in km) when fully loaded on motorways and 300km+ mixed driving at home.

We have just returned from a trip to Peterborough, 200 miles round trip. 100% charge to start and down to 35% capacity by the time we got there. A fast charge to 85% before coming back took 45 minutes on Instavolt (cost £35!!) and we had 30% left when we got back. 3 year old ID.3 running in Eco mode at an indicated 73mph on adaptive cruise control to avoid getting pinged by the average speed cams on the way to Cambridge, raining windy and 7-ish C temperatures in both directions.

At 100% capacity the car claimed it was going to do 217 miles when we started out. Lies as a bad as software install progress bars.

At 100% capacity the car claimed it was going to do 217 miles when we started out. Lies as a bad as software install progress bars

Just get a Tesla

 A fast charge to 85% before coming back took 45 minutes on Instavolt (cost £35!!) and we had 30% left when we got back

Should have fast charged to 60% which would have got you home with 15%, less time and money at the charger. Any Tesla chargers near your route? Usually cheaper than other providers.

Did you charge after the the battery had cooled back down?

At 100% capacity the car claimed it was going to do 217 miles when we started out. Lies as a bad as software install progress bars

Probably based on consumption on the previous 200 miles – if they were local and low speed you won’t get the same at 73mph.

At 100% capacity the car claimed it was going to do 217 miles when we started out. Lies as a bad as software install progress bars.

It’s not lying, it’s an estimate based on previous driving. The car doesn’t know if it’s windy, or if there’s water on the road etc.  Those things have a huge effect on any car.  We went out on Sunday, we normally get 5.0, or 4.8 m/kWh in cooler weather but we got 3.9 on the way out and that only went up to 4.1 on the way back.

At 100% capacity the car claimed it was going to do 217 miles when we started out. Lies as a bad as software install progress bars.

Did the range estimate not quickly start to fall once you got a few miles into the long higher speed journey?

Or is the vw range estimation algorithm a bit stupid?

Our car(not a vw) seems to use some combination of outside temperature, average consumption over the last few miles, and state of charge to give an estimate of range remaining. It seems reasonably accurate once you settle in to the journey. But we’ve done enough miles in it now to know that in coldish weather it’ll do 180 miles at motorway speeds, rising to 200 miles in warmer weather, so I just go by those two numbers for working out whether I’ll need to stop for a top up.

It’s not lying, it’s an estimate based on previous driving.

It’s a bit hopeless on the mostly local driving too, claiming 160-ish miles on 80% charge where we may get 130 out of it in economy mode. We have an ongoing issue where it won’t talk to the home charger and only Mrs Sandwich’s phone. I did the 12V battery disconnect and re-boot on Saturday and it decided to tell us what was occurring but by the evening it was sulking again. It’s quite nice thing to drive but the software side of things are currently letting it down.

Did you charge after the the battery had cooled back down?

We pootled out of town after a 5 hour visit, I would expect the battery to have only just warmed up after 5 miles. It was such foul weather we went with the bigger charge to avoid a second stop if the wind went against us around Cambridge.

Any Tesla chargers near your route?

Probably, but I wouldn’t give Musk the steam off my fresh urine, let alone money.