The Electric Car Thread

If you were warrantying something wouldn’t you want the owner to check it over regularly to make sure any problems are picked up early?

I see your point. Though it’s a bit of a weak warranty in a way if it requires the owner to pay for assessments that prompt early remediation.

service costs over a combined 6 years of a Model 3 and Model Y £0. That coolant replacement and associated service checks on the Model S back in the day a MB-style £750 if I remember correctly.

Re: regen making the car a sledge…

In icy / snowy conditions i turn the regen down to minimum as the car does just this. Lifting off gives too much braking and can cause a slide.

Wheelspin is another issue.  It may not wheelspin more than an ICE vehicle, but there is nothing to indicate its happening unless looking down at the dash.  With an ICE there are increased revs and no movement, whereas with the EV simply nothing happens!

But does the regen setting take into account the road/traction issues?

Depends on who supplies the brake module and what the manufacturer has paid to be activated in it.

But mostly, yes. Regen is still “braking” and the same mitigation’s are in place as normal braking. So if a wheel locks the regen should do one of three things.

1) drop out completely and the brake control will be taken over by the service brakes to give consistent performance, you *probably* won’t get regen back until you’ve done something to tell the car you’re in control, typically accelerated again or used the brake pedal over a certain threshold. Most current cars are doing something like this.

2) reduce brake torque until the wheel starts moving again (don’t know of anyone who is doing this anymore).

3) drop out completely and you’ll have to use the brake pedal to slow down. Some early teslas do/did this and some of the smaller/city car types. Again, it’ll come back when you’ve done some thing specific with the controls.

Does my brake assist take into account the amount of regen i have selected in conjunction with the traction.

Yes, if your car is in the 1) or 2) groups

Then there is the collision prevention assist which has three settings of harshness.  Do i need to reduce the setting for the winter.

Completely up to you, i wouldn’t, and haven’t for years.

Also, traction control is usually dependant on reducing torque and braking each wheel independently, so they (mostly) have to switch over to service brakes, as regen brakes each axle rather than the wheel itself.

Lifting off gives too much braking and can cause a slide.

Do you get no TC intervention at all? What car is that, i need to go play! Nothing i’ve driven or benchmarked behaves like that.

 If i go into max regen is the car suddenly going to become a sledge and crash when its icy roads and i take my foot off the accelerator?

Car designer: We’ve poured billions into designing stability systems. Now that we can instantly control the torque of the motor should we also modulate the regen to help with the ESP?

Car designer boss: Nah, **** it, let them crash.

I think it’s a bit of a myth that engine braking is better for snow. It allows you to brake nice and slowly but you can still do that with the brakes and you get the benefit of ABS and the braking force distributed over four wheels. I agree it feels better to use gentle engine braking but I don’t think it is.

The car is designed to deal with you wedging the brakes on in panic so I don’t think it’s going to stop working in snow or if you have regen selected.

Thanks guys.  Plenty to consider there.  I did have lots typed out but im not sure it will help the conversation

[mert]

mert

Free Member

Lifting off gives too much braking and can cause a slide.

Do you get no TC intervention at all? What car is that, i need to go play! Nothing i’ve driven or benchmarked behaves like that

TBH I was messing about to see what would happen when lifting off fully, so no modulation at all.  This was on quiet untreated country roads which were frozen over.

Car is an Ionic classic, and as i have noted previously, it’s quite wheelspin happy in the cold and damp with too much enthusiasm.

To counter this, I’m pretty sure that TC and stability have saved me since when I caught a large puddle of diesel on a roundabout.

Lifting off gives too much braking and can cause a slide.

Do you get no TC intervention at all? What car is that, i need to go play! Nothing i’ve driven or benchmarked behaves like that

I’m sure I read many pages back reference to avoiding the Jaguar I Pace. Anyone care to expand why?

Back at the research again and the I Pace ticks a lot of boxes (apart from the silly high insurance group because of the unnecessary silly fast acceleration).  Obviously as a new buy it was pretty woeful as it devalued like a stone…but that means it’s now affordable 2nd hand to grunts like me. A colleague at work has one – looks ok. Mind you – never considered myself a “Jaaaag” kind of bloke.

I believe it is/was rather unreliable. Might be wrong.

Anyone care to expand why?

Unreliable, and crappy dealers, coupled with a relatively slow DC charge speed, but a very large battery

There was/is a common issue with the battery that meant quite a few needed new cells, which jag were/are replacing under warranty, but because of a parts shortage it was taking months to get the cells replaced, and during that time the car limited you to 75% battery capacity.

Others issues included a leaking front windscreen that causes the dash electronics to get wet.

Shame really, nice looking and driving car by all accounts.

Back to servicing – my P2 runs out of warranty next month..

obvs i’m going to get it MOT’d as a legal requirement, but…Iam I being daft saying “I genuinely can’t see any point in a service”?

When I bought it I’ve already replaced the cabin filter. I think I’ve used the brakes 6 times in a year (!), and I top the washer fluid up when needed…

WHAT ELSE DO THEY DO??!!

I’ll deep dive on the polestar forums (as, looking at Molgrips post and seeing his Ioniq needs engine coolant, I don’t want to miss anything)…but SURELY there’s not much more to do??!!

DrP

An AI search suggetion brings up:

A Polestar 2 service can include a number of things, such as:
Cleaning: The Polestar 2 can be cleaned as part of a service

Pick-up and delivery: Polestar can arrange to pick up and deliver your car for maintenance or repairs

Brake system maintenance: This can include a full brake report, checking the brake pipes, and adjusting the handbrake

Suspension and steering check: This can include checking the suspension operation, steering and suspension joints, and wheel bearings

Cabin air filter replacement: The cabin air filter is one of the only parts that requires regular attention

Software updates: Polestar releases software updates, which can include new features

Literally nothing I can’t assess myself, or will come up as part of an MOT (Brake and handbrake are checked).

I think it’s money for old rope!

DrP

Literally nothing I can’t assess myself

Put yourself in their position.  Imagine talking to the general public:

“X has gone wrong and this has ruined the car, how dare you, fix it now!”

“Well, if you’d checked Y and fixed that before it went wrong you would have been fine”

“I checked it, I know what I’m doing, my cousin did a night class in motor vehicle maintenance”

etc etc

There are YouTube channels dedicated to the incredible idiocy of motorists when it comes to maintenance.  So yeah, I can totally sympathise with the manufacturers on this one.  £370 for the 4 year service on my car is harder to swallow when they still did basically nothing, but that’s the dealer being disingenuous. The coolant refresh is the reason the bill is usually £500 but it didn’t need doing because it had been done under recall. However the dealer only knocked off the cost of the coolant itself and not the labour that would have gone with it.

I’m not looking forward to my next service as that’s going to be another coolant replacement 🙁 I avoided the cost of the first one by having my service done at the same time as the recall too.

Getting dealer servicing has definitely been worth it for me as it keeps up the warranty, which is a reasonable 5yr / 100,000 miles.

Have had to have a good few items sorted early on – charge port, coolant fix, 6 wheels (corrosion under the coating)and about to have a window motor as the window often winds up and then goes down again!

I’ll probably stick with the dealer services once the warranty runs out next year as the costs are not too bad for peace of mind to keep everything checked and in good order.

The minor services are maybe a little frustrating as it does seem to be not much more than an expensive clean.

 Getting dealer servicing has definitely been worth it for me as it keeps up the warranty, which is a reasonable 5yr / 100,000 miles.

you are not required to have dealer services to sustain a warranty are you? I thought this was established some years ago. If the warranty depends on service history then any valid service is sufficient. https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/do-i-have-to-have-my-vehicle-serviced-at-an-authorised-dealer

And as Martin Lewis has said: ‘warranty shmarranty’ you have statutory rights. That being said, LR Tesla battery and drivetrain warranty is ‘8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period’ https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/vehicle-warranty

you are not required to have dealer services to sustain a warranty are you?

No but I think you are required to have services of some kind.  And whilst you do have statutory rights regarding something being fit for purpose, it would seem that on a thing that needs regular inspection and maintenance it is not unreasonable to expect that maintenance to have been done. It’s a bit like making a claim against Fox for worn stanchions when you haven’t ever bothered to check or replace the lower leg oil and it’s run dry. Fox could hardly be expected to cough up for that when they say something is specifically needed and you don’t do it?

Lifting off gives too much braking and can cause a slide.

Do you get no TC intervention at all? What car is that, i need to go play! Nothing i’ve driven or benchmarked behaves like that.

In the interests of research, and having a white icy road this morning, i tried it out.

On a hard lift off, the car does lock the front and start to slide, but then i did notice a bit of anti-lock happening. Thanks for making me aware!

I still prefer to dial regen down to a minimum on icy roads as in the moment of panic lift off, i’d rather the slowing be more gentle.

Do you get no TC intervention at all? What car is that, i need to go play! Nothing i’ve driven or benchmarked behaves like that.

Re: warranty.

Maybe dont need main dealer servicing, but Hyundai definitely challenged the service history on one occasion when dealer hadnt updated the digital records.  When the service at main dealer is around £60, and I can work in there while waiting and drink their free coffee I dont mind going to them.  I’m not sure an independent would be any cheaper, and I doubt they would have the tools for the coolant flushes on the big service (Hyundai had to wait for special kit to do this).

you are not required to have dealer services to sustain a warranty are you? I thought this was established some years ago. If the warranty depends on service history then any valid service is sufficient.

Not quite *any* valid service. Then are some caveats about authorized service centres, competent persons and the use of OE or authorised alternative parts.

In the interests of research, and having a white icy road this morning, i tried it out.

Nice! Just tried mine too, couldn’t even get it to lock up or slide, just braked to a stop.

Re. EV servicing. Took my Kia EV6 for its first annual service last month. Sat in a Starbuck’s opposite the garage working while I waited for the car to be serviced. I had a clear view of the dealer’s car park and could see my car.

After about 2 hours they took the car to the workshop. 25 minutes later it was back in the car park and I got the call to say the service had been done. Those 25 minutes included the technician making a video showing me the brakes and underside of the car, a wash and vacuum!

Manufacturers used to make a decent profit on every car they sold and then a fair bit more servicing and repairing those cars. With EVs a lot of manufacturers seem to be struggling to get their costs down to the point where they can make any sort of profit even with the current “EV premium” and helpful tax breaks. So, I can see why they are keen to hang on to as much of that servicing revenue as they can. The problem (for them) is that there really isn’t much that needs doing and there is only so much people are going to be willing to pay for a wash, vacuum and visual check.

I think they are relying on the fact that ICE car drivers are used to paying for dealer servicing, at least for the length of the warranty and they hope they wont mind too much paying a similar amount to service their EV (even if very little actually needs to be done). Over time I guess independent service centres will spring up that will do an “EV service” while you wait for a lot less than the main dealer. A bit like the jiffy-lube places that Americans use for their regular oil changes. At that point I can see franchise dealerships disappearing as cars are bought online direct from the manufacturer and serviced at independent centres. But who knows, maybe they’ll find a way to carry on.

Re. EV servicing. Took my Kia Ev6 for its annual service a month ago. Dropped it at 8.30am, as requested, and went to work. The Kia app notified me the doors were unlocked at 4.15pm, the bonnet was opened at 4.18pm. I had the phone call at 4.28pm to come and come and collect it. I gave watching the video a miss 🙂

That’s funny 🙂 I guess with modern cars that have cameras all over the place and an app that let you view then, you could watch the service being done.

It has long been alleged that dealers make most of their money from servicing and EVs will erode much of that. It’s usually Americans saying this so I don’t know how much that applies here. But if it’s true dealers will have to reduce the discounts they can give.

and adjusting the handbrake

Good luck with that without the computer

Good luck with that without the computer

My point was the handbrake will only need adjusting if it fails the MOT handbrake check.

Thus, I’m doubtful Volvo/Polestar adjust everyone’s handbrake EVERY service!

DrP

EDIT – also, it seems, that if present a handbrake issue comes up on the infotainment, so a few prompts to guide towards if an issue is/isn’t present.

It has long been alleged that dealers make most of their money from servicing

Not just alleged. Andy Palmer former COO of Nissan and CEO of Aston Martin admitted it on Xitter.

I took my e-Up for service to maintain the warranty. They changed the cabin air filter. Nothing else.

Just wanted to update on my EQA with regards to regen settings, collision prevention settings and all the other settings in the snow/ice.

I have intentionally (Where safe to do so) been a little ham-fisted with lifting off the accelerator when in max regen on slippy roads.  It has resulted in zero issues.  The car just takes care of it.  Absolutely delighted with it so far.

Must say compared to my previous RWD C Class AMG it seems to be a lot better