The Electric Car Thread

Here, the recovered energy could, ime, get as high as 25 to 30 % of the consumed total energy.

Hmm, when you drive around in town you are going much slower and recovering more energy, the consumption only goes up about 20% at most.

Also Fully Charged generally – I find it very watchable.

Generally I’d agree with you but lately it seems to consist mainly of infomercials for dodgy renewable startups.

Also Robert Llewellyn’s ranting about SUVs are getting tiresome. He recently went off on one about the Volvo XC40 recharge so I looked up the dimensions of his Tesla Model 3 and guess what, it has a larger footprint on the road than the Volvo!

I looked up the dimensions of his Tesla Model 3 and guess what, it has a larger footprint on the road than the Volvo!

Now look at efficiency, aerodynamics and pedestrian collision.

Hopefully agreeing on a 2017 signature 41kwh Q 90 tomorrow. Anything I really need to know or ask. If all goes ahead I’ll need to drive it back and charge on route, this is all a learning curve, us there any chargers I can’t use with a Zoe, or any places that people can recommend to stop and charge between Lincolnshire and Cumbria, journey is 230 miles

Zap Map.

Nissan Chademo won’t work on the Zoé, nor will the Euro Combo, you need a type 2 which happily are the most common.

Now look at efficiency, aerodynamics and pedestrian collision.

Why should I they are both zero emissions and Euro NCAP 5 star

Also Robert Llewellyn’s ranting about SUVs are getting tiresome. He recently went off on one about the Volvo XC40 recharge so I looked up the dimensions of his Tesla Model 3 and guess what, it has a larger footprint on the road than the Volvo!

Increase in footprint isn’t a particularly important variable with regards power consumption. Aerodynamic drag of a XC40 is likely to be a chunk more than a Model 3. His ranting about it might be tiresome but I’d say the impact on our emissions of our collective SUV habit is more so.

I assume (certainly hope) it’s not still be the case but about a year ago all our improvements from moving to smaller petrol engines, hybrids and EVs were collectively not enough to counteract the increase associated with our shift from normal format cars to SUV type vehicles.

Worth knowing (particularly with Zoe) that Gridserve are cracking on with motorway services rapid charger replacements. Worth checking zapmap and http://evmap.mazshar.com for current status. Mostly AC that older Zoes need is coming via separate units after so aim for services not done yet or BP Pulse (Polar), Shell, Osprey or similar just off the motorway.

His ranting about it might be tiresome but I’d say the impact on our emissions of our collective SUV habit is more so.

Like I said both are zero emissions vehicles and petrol equivalents will not be on sale after 2030 so is a difference in efficiency of something like 1 or 1.5kWh really a problem in a world where the power grid is decarbonising and the ICE is being legislated out of existence.

Personally I think RL’s time would be more constructively spent ranting about the lack of charging infrastructure in a country where we expect EV use to grow exponentially in a couple of years.

So…posting on a thread with electric car users to garner opinion rather than start a new thread.

We have a holiday cottage we run next door. Current punters have an electric car. An MG ZS EV. Looks ok. This is the Highlands and they’ve had a very active holiday travelling (relatively) far and wide. I’d say they’ve covered 500 miles and will be driving home 200 tomorrow. Good to see you can have that sort holiday seemingly unperturbed by being in an electric car.

But this is the thing….I paid for it!

Car plugged in to a 13 amp plug through the window whenever they are in. A quick bit of (very rough and probably inaccurate maths) that’ll be £30-40 of leccy.

As electric car users would you say plugging your car in to a holiday cottage without asking is just the expected thing you can do if you own an electric car? I’m thinking probably yes. But it still feels a bit cheeky. I don’t pay for the fuel for petrol car owners. At the same time I’m all for electric cars becoming a thing so kind of support it…

Long term it looks like it’s something I’ll have to account for. Maybe put a charging point on the cottage and make it a selling point. But I’ll maybe have to put the prices up too if I’m going to be pay for their travel whilst they are with us.

I’ve always asked and offered to pay giving them an idea of what it’ll take in electricity, usually about 5e worth, they’ve always said help yourselves, it’s free, and found us a suitable socket. Except once where they point blank refused, so we cancelled and moved on.

We rented out a ski flat a few times, the people who turned on all the heaters flat out cost us a lot more than an electric car can draw without a special socket – do you charge extra for people who turn the place into a sauna?

The most a car car draw from a standard domestic plug is 10A so 2.2kW.

We rented out a ski flat a few times, the people who turned on all the heaters flat out cost us a lot more than an electric car can draw without a special socket – do you charge extra for people who turn the place into a sauna?

This is true – though the heating controls are beyond reach. They could stay in 24/7 and have 3 baths a day. Or just scratch/damage stuff through carelessness. So in comparison it’s not a biggie.

But you are still saying you’d ask?

Interesting question. I would ask before just running a cable. I don’t think it’ll be quite as much as £30-40 but I think common courtesy would be to talk to you about it.

I’ve wondered about this at campsites.. heading to Goodwood (hopefully!) in a couple weeks but the extra for an electric hookup pitch is waaaay more than just hitting a rapid charger for 20 minutes.

Can I ask how long anyone might have waited for UK Power Networks to get in contact and then install a 100amp fuse?

Submitted request over a week ago and waiting for call now, not 100% sure as and when they come out that my electric kit meets their standards to fit a 100a, but wondering how long that might take.

Ready to order an EV but not doing that till know we are on for a charger at home.

@boombang What is your current main cutout rated at? I had my 32amp podpoint on our 63amp main cutout for a year with no issues whatsoever.

Our DNO is Northern Powergrid and we eventually got it upgraded it to 80amp. 100amp wouldn’t be done unless there was an exceptional reason. I think from logging the call with the DNO to getting the works done it was maybe 2 months and involved digging up a bit of the driveway.

A quick bit of (very rough and probably inaccurate maths) that’ll be £30-40 of leccy.

About £6 if completely empty. Bit cheeky of them to do it without asking, IMHO.

You could ask them not to do it on safety grounds, I suppose.

Aye, think I’d be more worried about the safety element of it more than the cost.

Yes, I ask and offer to pay, seems fair and polite. If I charge for 12 hrs that’s half the battery, 25kWh which is 4 euros here. I couldn’t use £30-£40 in a week. It takes over 6 hours to empty the battery on main roads which leaves 18 hrs to charge so even doing that every day for a week wouldn’t get to £30. It depends on what you pay for leccy, I did feel a little guilty in Germany where it’s three times the price and they simply said plug in, it’s free.

You could ask them not to do it on safety grounds, I suppose

In which case they might report you for having a dangerous electricity supply, it’s 10A, that’s an electric kettle.

I wouldn’t ask to plug my car in but I would give the owners an extra £20 or whatever it was.

Why are you lot having your supply upgraded? 7kW charger not enough? Or is it everything else as well?

Is my house going to trip out when the car starts charging tonight? Our boiler’s on the blink so I’ve got the immersion heater on.

@nickewen not sure, not opened it to see but according to the guy lined up to install based on photos:

‘You haven’t got a big enough head fuse to have a car charger. Yours is only a 60/80. You’d need to have it uprated to a 100 amp. You would need to contact UK Power networks and request for a new cutout fuse.’

When I asked about adaptive fuses he said ‘most manufacturers don’t do adaptive fuses they just have a CT clamp. You can’t get the grant without the 100 amp cut out fuse though as UKPN need to be notified its been done. They won’t accept anything less than a 100amp on the paperwork as a formality.’

I have taken that at face value then everyone I spoke to since with a charger says they on smaller fuses and had no issues.

Maybe put a charging point on the cottage and make it a selling point.

EVs make up less than 1% of the vehicles on the road so you might never have another customer driving an EV for the next couple of years. Plus if they really have driven 500 miles in the week plus another full charge to get home then they’ve used about £28 of leccy. I suspect given what you are probably charging them in rental that’s peanuts.

I know UK holiday accommodation just now is a sellers market but in a years time it won’t be and for an EV driver like me having access to a fast charger would be a great selling point. At £0.16 per kWh the most anyone is going to take in a 10 hour period is £3.84 so either suck it up, add it to the rental or install a fast charger and enroll in Co Charger.

Charging a car with, say, a 100kW battery from 10% full is probably only about £0.15 x 80 = £12 maybe bump it up to £15 if you’re allowing for losses or the  air conditioning is left on.

edit and that assumes there’s enough current. As quicker folks than me point out, charging at 3kW/hour is even less: 3kW x £0.15/ kWh x 10 hours =£4.50

It is not different from having a 3kW fan heater on. I was almost embarrassed when a nice chap offered me £20 after using my charge point to charge his EQC overnight.

Still, it’d be polite to ask if it’s OK. I would have and I’d have offered £10. With EVs still rare an extra £10 of electricity disappearing could be an unwelcome surprise to a host.

On 100A supply fuses. Interesting. I’ve told my supply fuse tale before. 7kW charger was installed on our second consumer unit. We had a 60A fuse to supply both units. OK most of the time. But one night: bang! Seems all the regular things + car (32A) + washer + drier was a bit much. North west power were with us a couple of hours later and installed a 100A fuse very quickly. Any supply fuse 60A+ should be fine. But 7kW charging will suck up over half the possible current.

In which case they might report you for having a dangerous electricity supply, it’s 10A, that’s an electric kettle.

Yeah, but most people don’t run an electric kettle for ten hours straight on an extension lead through the window. They’re also double-insulated so safe in the event of a PEN fault.

BTW, 80A fuse in a 100A cutout here, no issues with a 7kW charger install. DNO not the slightest bit bothered about me having a car charger on a looped supply, though may cause a headache for the neighbour if they want one too.

A quick bit of (very rough and probably inaccurate maths) that’ll be £30-40 of leccy.

The MG ZS has a 43Kwh battery a socket will provide 3Kw. 43/3 is a little more over 14 hours. Let’s say you pay 15p an hour for easy maths.

3x15x14 = £6.30

They have around 140 mile range so let’s say 4 full recharges, if they only recharged at the cottage. That’s just over £25

It would be polite to ask but I bet that doesn’t eat into your profit margin much. We’re off to the West Coast this year to a cottage we visit every couple of years. It’s a fraction of what they charge off peak never mind post peak.

I agree install a charger make it attractive for EV uses it’s a nice selling point if you’re in a remote area.

A rather diff question, I’d like the good lady to trade in her wee 500 for a leccy one.

They’re bloody expensive, but with a 3k deposit (ie her petrol 500) she can get one for 199 a month (I’m sure better deals are available, but I’ve not looked into it much).

What happens at the end of the pcp deal, when she’s no carvto use as a deposit? Need to find cash yourself, or carry on paying monthly cos you’re ‘in’?

This thread seems a bit ‘quaint’ to read now… https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fuel-additives-for-diesel-cars-what-do-you-use-%f0%9f%a4%94/

I can’t ever imagine going back..

No beer – I’m in the market for a petrol 500 in the next few months. Send some details if you like?

This thread seems a bit ‘quaint’ to read now… https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fuel-additives-for-diesel-cars-what-do-you-use-%f0%9f%a4%94/

I can’t ever imagine going back..

That’s funny because I was reading the I drove 3 hours to go camping and couldn’t ….then drove home thinking…. Heck if he had an electric car the pitch would have dried out before he could drive home.

Horses for course.

@Karnali
Check your car has the type2 3-phase cable included
use Zap-Map app as said above. I’d register beforehand with a few of the main networks, Shell Recharge / Osprey, BP Polar, Geniepoint, Electric Highway. Definitely plan your route beforehand I generally plan to stop somewhere where there are a few options. Prioritise Instavolt (contactless payment) then the above networks in that order (not sure about Electric Highway these days, I’ve never used them, they had/have the worst rep). You should check in zap-map that any specific charger has 22kw AC charger as an option, most of the rapid DC chargers do have an AC option I think, but in most cases you supply the cable.

It’s worth knowing that if you register and use Engie chargers in West Yorkshire, they are currently free to use until October. register and charger Map here (green=available, Blue=in use, Red=broken) https://ev.engie.co.uk/ They all have a 22kw AC plug

The MG ZS has a 43Kwh battery a socket will provide 3Kw

Charger blocks I’ve used have/had a 2kW limit unless plugged into a Greenup plug socket in which case they’re 3.2kW.

A quick bit of (very rough and probably inaccurate maths) that’ll be £30-40 of leccy.

I got the same number based on 700 miles. But cutting it another way, assuming a 10A charge rate they’d need to be plugged in solidly for 4 and a half days. Does that still seem right? Or have they stopped off at a rapid at some point?

Still, if I was the tenant I’d have asked.
And leave a few notes behind to cover costs if they were significant.

But cutting it another way, assuming a 10A charge rate they’d need to be plugged in solidly for 4 and a half days. Does that still seem right? Or have they stopped off at a rapid at some point?

They might have charged elsewhere too I guess. Probably plugged it in for 12-14 a day for 7 days so could have racked up 4ish days….But judging by where they said they’ve been they will have covered some miles. They wen to John o’ Groats (why do all our punter do this?) which is a 280 round trip from ours so they must have charged up elsewhere during the day.

@convert
Where is your holiday accommodation? My pals have two hols a year in Scotland, Munro bagging, aways looking for Highlands rentals.

Just returned from Fort Augustus (2 electric cars) and luckily there was a free rapid charger just down the road and on some of our planned routes. We both turned up with cables and extensions as emergency back up and had an agreement with the owner to reimburse him, but wasn’t necessary.

@B.A.Nana many thanks most helpful

@boombang That’s certainly an interesting response from the installer. I can understand it though as there seems to some differences between DNOs.

For example, Northern Powergrid told me they would never fit anything above 80a on a domestic property and even most small business properties are the same. We have three phase coming into our house (services 4 houses in total but comes in under our drive) and the fuse carriers (x3) all have 100a stamped on them but I know they definitely have 80a fuses in them. Not sure why it’s like this because it’s confusing, e.g. if you send a photo and it says ‘100a’ I would assume it contains a 100a fuse! But you can’t check without breaking the seals (not that I would be poking around in there anyway!).

I was told our 7kw podpoint would simply throttle the current if I decided to have a tumble dryer party, not sure what the name is for this. We used a local company rather than podpoint direct so probably paid a bit more because they sorted all the paperwork etc. I would get a second opinion form another installer.

Charger blocks I’ve used have/had a 2kW limit unless plugged into a Greenup plug socket in which case they’re 3.2kW.

I got 3Kw with my Golf which seems to be what most report.

For example, Northern Powergrid told me they would never fit anything above 80a on a domestic property

They fitted a new cut-out in my terraced house last December (due to age of the old one), it says 100a on it. I’ve no idea if it is actually 100a but it would seem strange that such a company is going around fitting mislabeled kit as standard.

so is a difference in efficiency of something like 1 or 1.5kWh

It’s not something like 1 or 1.5kWh though is it? You’re actually talking 25-40% less efficient. That’s a LOT of kWhs which is a lot of extra power that has to be generated somehow.

It’s worse for electric than for ICE too. Just look at the difference just bigger wheels make on a Tesla Model 3 – It’s around 8% in range. Now consider the size of the wheels for the Volvo, and the aerodynamic penalty of those wheels and the size/weight/drag of the bodywork to hide them. So you now need a bigger battery, which is heavier, so you need bigger brakes to stop you, and more crash protection to save you. bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger. What a damn waste. And the fact that people are either too stupid to understand it, or just unwilling to even consider it is properly sad, especially for future generations.

My little i3 (which actually isn’t that small) quite happily does 8.3km/kWh. So I can get 140-150 miles out of a 33kWh battery. That Volvo needs a 75kWH battery to go 205 miles!. Almost 2.5x the battery size for 50% more range.

Why – because the i3 was designed to be an efficient electric car. The Volvo isn’t. it’s an existing design, adapted to electric as Volvo believes (quite correctly) that it’ll sell and like you, they car more about what it looks like and if it sells, than actually how good it truly is for the world.

I really hope that we start taxing electric cars soon and that the fixed tax be based size and weight and that a proportion of that fixed component becomes a scaler against miles driven.

@nickewen

Thanks for that, this is a local firm who are not tied to any particular charger. We have a 10mish cable run (if run at right angles) under floors so most firms would either take an easier route and run it outside as much as possible or want to take floors up. These guys will work under the suspended floor if they can get under (neighbour with similar layout said he could).

I’ll try another but now started process with UK Power Networks might as well follow through.

As said I’ve seen 2 other installs (next door and a friend locally) who’s installs are close to a bodge, I’d like to get it right and safe.