The church and homosexuality

Interesting video on the church and gay rights. Not sure if it has been done before. Stick with it.

Just a smattering of polite applause, looks like he was preaching to a hostile crowd. I sometimes find it amazing how divided a country America is. The big city’s, LA and NY etc are generally just as open and forward thinking as we are, if not more so. But massive swaths of the country still seem to be stuck in the dark ages.

What’s the vid about. Can’t be doing with ignorant ranting this time of the morning 🙄

Basically a pastor stands up and preaches against homosexuals in some sort of government committee, then apologises for mixing up his notes, and bringing quotes that the religious establishment had used against racial integration in the last century.

The church and religion have no place in modern day society, just treat anything anyone says based on religion or in the name of religion as a load of bollox and preserve you own sanity.

****.

The church and religion have no place in modern day society, just treat anything anyone says based on religion or in the name of religion as a load of bollox and preserve you own sanity.

Very narrow-minded, but everyone’s entitled to their opinion …

MSP,
I got the feeling from the reaction that most of the audience probably thought he had genuinely brought the wrong speech.

After all, this is a nation that renamed the film “The Madness of King George III” to “The Madness of King George”, for fear that most Americans would think they had missed the first two prequels.

just treat anything anyone says as a load of bollox and preserve you own sanity.

🙂

I think the sooner people stop letting their imaginary friends tell them what to do the better off we will all be.

Religion shouldn’t have a place in the world anymore.

After all, this is a nation that renamed the film “The Madness of King George III” to “The Madness of King George”, for fear that most Americans would think they had missed the first two prequels.

🙄

Sorry, it’s an urban myth

i tried normality, it was the worst two minutes of my life.

Religion shouldn’t have a place in the world anymore.

Cool – just let me know where to drop the keys for our youth centre then – I’m assuming you’re volunteering to fill the void?

MSP,
I got the feeling from the reaction that most of the audience probably thought he had genuinely brought the wrong speech.

Judging by the blank faces, they really didn’t get it, did they? They probably still believe all the stuff he said before he told them it was a racial segregation speech anyway.

Cool – just let me know where to drop the keys for our youth centre then – I’m assuming you’re volunteering to fill the void?

Have the ditched the bit about how I have to believe in order to volunteer like say the Scouts?
Happy to step into the void if the religious disappear into it 😉

Have the ditched the bit about how I have to believe in order to volunteer

Luckily for you, there’s no faith requirement in order to volunteer – however, it’s a big project, and it’s run entirely on a voluntary basis, so you’ll be needing to quit your job and live on a pittance in order to keep it rolling along…

… and move to Glasgow 😉

ditch_jockey – Member

Religion shouldn’t have a place in the world anymore.

Cool – just let me know where to drop the keys for our youth centre then – I’m assuming you’re volunteering to fill the void?

Would you still be youth leader if the religious element was removed and the centre was a secular one?
Not being funny,just interested.

The big city’s, LA and NY etc are generally just as open and forward thinking as we are,

Give yourself a pat on the back…

Ditch jockey, plenty of youth clubs run on zero budget with all contributing members being volunteers Not just your church (brainwashed) ones.

You do know that god doesn’t exist don’t you?

I liked this story of religious tolerance versus bigotry from Not Always Right the other day:

http://notalwaysright.com/taking-the-big-out-of-bigotry/24364

Just shows that bigotry is often more down to the people than the religion.

Can’t be doing with ignorant ranting this time of the morning

Can I suggest a different forum then? 😀

Luckily for you, there’s no faith requirement in order to volunteer – however, it’s a big project, and it’s run entirely on a voluntary basis, so you’ll be needing to quit your job and live on a pittance in order to keep it rolling along…

… and move to Glasgow

Will you pay me in Buckfast?

Cool – just let me know where to drop the keys for our youth centre then – I’m assuming you’re volunteering to fill the void?

think he said religion had no place, people are still allowed to do nice things and charitable acts without god telling you to do it.

Of course the issue of land and property is slightly more complex and the government sure as shit aint gonna fund a youth centre for you at the moment but i digress

Interesting to see from this thread and the Jimmy Saville/Catholic one, that the STW tradition of open-discrimination against certain religions is as healthy (sic) as ever. Always ironic to see those who preach (sorry !) tolerance elsewhere, fail to do so where religion is concerned.

I can just imagine if the JS thread was linked to other religions (Judaism, Islam) or races, there would be all sorts of accusations flying about re discrimination. But open season on other religions it seems.

FWIW – this doesn’t mean that I support the CoE/Catholic views on homosexuality – I dont. But I can respect their views and understand where they come from even without agreeing with them. Why shouldn’t this be norm on STW?

think he said religion had no place, people are still allowed to do nice things and charitable acts without god telling you to do it.

But I do what I do for “religious reasons”, so if these have no place in society, then it would require someone with a different motivation to come along and fill the gap. If you convince me that there is no underlying purpose to our existence, then there’s very little rationale for me doing anything ‘nice’ or ‘charitable’ even if you can disentangle what these might mean in a purely subjective frame of reference.

As for payment in Buckfast – if you can drink it, I’m sure the locals have more than enough to go round 🙂

STW tradition of open-discrimination against certain religions is as healthy (sic) as ever. Always ironic to see those who preach (sorry !) tolerance elsewhere, fail to do so where religion is concerned.

It’s not like religion is some sort of hot bed of tolerance itself. The only time they ask for tolerance is when they feel persecuted. it is certianly not something they ask for whn they are doing the persecution- compare fundamentlaist states of any religion with western liberal democracies and you tell me which is the tolerant state?

What you see as intolerance i see as a slow and steady march away from the dark ages and into enlightenment

It is not like we are having a Holy war or holding an Inquisition or threatening to kill you because you dont accept evolution or the a heliocentric solar system. Nor are we saying you will burn in hell for not doing what I say or follwoing my personal beliefs
Religion does not deserve much tolerance as it does not give much tolerance.

I can respect their views and understand where they come from even without agreeing with them. Why shouldn’t this be norm on STW?

Which one – that its an abhomination/ the ugandan approach?

“it is not Uganda that is putting a death penalty on homosexuals, it is God

Bishop julius Oyet
Iran iirc says it has no gays and does similiar things – death penalty iirc

I rather suspect you mean you like the liberal western version of religous “intolerance ” where they moan but not openly persecute – ? rather than the literal version given in the Bible. Should we allow them to openly persecurte the abhomination?
HOW TF AM I MEANT TO RESPECT THAT?
Would they repsect me if I say started persecuting religious folk and banned them from hig office for talking it a non existent being ? Would they preach about tolerance then?

I cannot respect their view evemn if you can
Why do I have to respect those who are wrong and preach hate whilst asking me to be tolerant of their hatred?

“It is not Uganda putting a death penalty on homosexuals, it is God and his word!… Now, listen to me – the sodomy people, the homosexuals, are even more foolish than dogs. There’s no female dog that mates with a female dog, there’s no male dog that lusts after a male dog. Even animals are wiser than homosexuals! – Do you hear me?… We do not condemn homosexuality just because we are Africans. We condemn homosexuality because it is written in this holy book – the Bible tells us, according to Leviticus, chapter 18, verse 22, “You shall not lie with a man as a man lies with a woman. It is an abomination.”… I want to invite you to declare ‘no to sodomy’, every one of you. Uganda says ‘no to sodomy! No to sodomy! No to sodomy! No to sodomy!”

Are you suggesting do them because you think you will be rewarded in some way or because you are somehow being told to? Isn’t that a bit selfish as opposed to folk doing them just because they think it will help other people?

But I do what I do for “religious reasons”,

if you’re saying you need a reason to be nice then…well not sure what to say, tho I’m not sure I believe you were being serious with that comment.

the STW tradition of open-discrimination against certain religions is as healthy (sic) as ever

pretty sure it’s all religions not a specific few. (I stayed well away from the catholic/JS thread that was just wrong)

If you convince me that there is no underlying purpose to our existence, then there’s very little rationale for me doing anything ‘nice’ or ‘charitable’

Blimey, there we have the insight in to a religious persons mindset, makes me shudder than someone can be so callous when there is no perceived reward.

Edit: See Donk below!!

If you convince me that there is no underlying purpose to our existence, then there’s very little rationale for me doing anything ‘nice’ or ‘charitable’

Wow that line of argument scares the beejesus out of me! 😯

My mother always told me “It’s nice to be nice” – perhaps that is sufficient rationale for some?

STW tradition of open-discrimination against certain religions is as healthy (sic) as ever. Always ironic to see those who preach (sorry !) tolerance elsewhere, fail to do so where religion is concerned.

If it helps, the Christian, Muslim and Jewish gods are all the same god, so any criticism of one can be considered to apply to all.

If you convince me that there is no underlying purpose to our existence, then there’s very little rationale for me doing anything ‘nice’ or ‘charitable’

Our ‘purpose’ is to pass on our genes to the next generation. Living in a tolerant, caring society enables this.

insight dobbo and I’m pretty sure he was joking, incite is completely different, altho some religious people have been known to incite all sorts of stuff.

But I do what I do for “religious reasons”, so if these have no place in society, then it would require someone with a different motivation to come along and fill the gap. If you convince me that there is no underlying purpose to our existence, then there’s very little rationale for me doing anything ‘nice’ or ‘charitable’ even if you can disentangle what these might mean in a purely subjective frame of reference.

So you’re basically a psychopath?

Or a troll

insight was the one I was after 😆 However….

The big city’s, LA and NY etc are generally just as open and forward thinking as we are, if not more so.

And the provinces and smaller cities are just as entrenched in their views as they are in this country?

Here’s a fine example…

perpetuation of the urban myth that

After all, this is a nation that renamed the film “The Madness of King George III” to “The Madness of King George”, for fear that most Americans would think they had missed the first two prequels.

. And this person thinks they’re qualified to pass jusgement on the validity of religion??? 🙄

Its the hypocritical stance that damns religions for me,do as i say not as i do !

Junkyard – Member
Religion does not deserve much tolerance as it does not give much tolerance.

A spectacular misrepresentation of most religions there JY – but understandable at least when one looks at what has been/continues to be done in the name (sic) of religion. And that is the key. But one should not confuse actions that people “try” to justify on religious grounds with the core concepts of most of the world’s religions.

…certain important teachings are found in all religions. For example, the injunction to love one’s fellow men echoes throughout all the Holy Writings. The Old Testament enjoins: “thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself”(Lev. 19:18). The Bhagavad-Gita (12:13) instructs: “A man should not hate any living creature. Let him be friendly and compassionate to all.” These words sound not so different from “love your enemies, bless them that curse you” as uttered by Jesus (Matthew 5:44). Compassion, loving-kindness, sympathetic joy, and equanimity are said by Buddhist scriptures to be divine conditions of the mind. “Do you love your creator? Love your fellow-beings first,” reads a well-known Islamic tradition. And Bahá’u’lláh, the Prophet-Founder of the Bahá’í Faith writes: “ye were created to show love to one another and not perversity and rancour. Take pride not in love for yourselves but in love for all mankind” (Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, 136). So prominent is the teaching of universal love among all religions that it could be viewed as a goal common to them all.

Donk – I am sure threads on certain religions/races would get closed down pretty quickly. Perhaps STW towers condones anti CoE/Catholic posts?

A spectacular misrepresentation of most religions there JY – but understandable at least when one looks at what has been/continues to be done in the name (sic) of religion. And that is the key. But one should not confuse actions that people “try” to justify on religious grounds with the core concepts of most of the world’s religions.

It is true that Religion is used as an excuse in many of the atrocities commited by humans in thier power struggles. However, it would be disenginuous not to also include the parts of the Bible, Koran or whtever text that do encourage or seek to justify violence/opression*. Most of these books are so full of contradictions you can use them to justify pretty much any activity!

*Including, but not limited to misogynism, xenophobia and homophobia

Junyard:

Religion does not deserve much tolerance as it does not give much tolerance.

I have to disagree. The fundamental principle of Christianity is the tolerance of all others, forgiveness, and promotion of being a generally decent person.

Some churches do suffer from rather non-progressive leadership, but the general ethos of Christianity cannot be a bad thing in itself. I sometimes think that Jesus must have been a pretty interesting and inspiring character, but I shudder to think what he would think of some of the established religions claiming to act in his name. (And for anyone to claim that he didn’t exist, is pretty ignorant, imo).

I am a practicing Catholic, and take my 3 children to church, and to a church school. I think encouraging them to live in accordance with (at least 7) of the 10 commandments is a good basis for their life.
And yes, I know you don’t need to even practice religion to follow the last 7 commandments, but I like being part of a community that has a focus on trying to be decent people. I do not wear sandals, I do not have a fish on my car, but i do think there may be a God, and he would like us to be nice to each other. However, I do not even believe in trans-substantiation of the bread into the body of christ(which I guess rather makes me a failed Catholic).

Having said all that, I did have to sit through the priest reading a letter from the bishop last month, urging people to sign a petition against gay marriage. As I said, I think the leadership can be woeful, but the general ideology of the religion I find to be sound.

I think a world without religion would be a pretty soulless place to live. I am only guessing though, and obviously anyone choosing to believe differently has an equally valid point, which I am happy to respect.