STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

Burrell is a 12 but has played 13 for England in the past. I think the fear with Burrell is that he doesn’t have much of a kicking game which leaves you exposed if the 10 is at the bottom of a ruck. This is the reason for persisting with Twelvetrees as he is a big lad who can also kick, a perfect combo for a 12 in theory at least.

Personally, I think if you play Youngs at 9 and Brown or Alex Goode at 15 you have enough kicking cover to warrant Burrell at 12 but Lancaster clearly knows more than I. I’d also stop planning on Tuilangi coming back, he spends far too much time injured to build a team around, England have to think beyond him for the moment.

Except that Burrel is a 12 and Barritt is a 13

Not quite that simple. Barritts time in a england shirt has mainly been at 12. Burrell plays at 12 for norts but has got most of his caps at 13….
Barritt is under rated IMHO, but I’d still start burrell ahead of him every time. I’d love to have seen a Slade/Burrell partnership.
Glad to see Watson given a proper chance, he looks to the manor born.
Clear as mud.

I’d still rather see Burrell at 12 and Tuilagi at 13 as a first choice partnership, the likes of 36 or Barritt warming the bench would be bloody good cover.

Re:Aaron Mauger at Tigers – As tinybits said, Cockers will stay on as DOR and Mauger will be head coach as we’ve never replaced Matt O’connor since he left for Leinster. Geordan Murphy will stay on as backs coach as well.

Re:Aaron Mauger at Tigers – As tinybits said, Cockers will stay on as DOR and Mauger will be head coach as we’ve never replaced Matt O’connor since he left for Leinster. Geordan Murphy will stay on as backs coach as well.

Eek. Mr Mauger must have a big old pair of balls. Can you imagine working for cockers? 😯

Manu, Burrell, Slade, Joseph, Barritt, maybe Eastmond. We need to experiment with those.

Agreed on the Slade front. Looks very good each time I see him play for Exeter, reminds me of a Will Greenwood, only with a bit of pace!

I’d also stop planning on Tuilangi coming back, he spends far too much time injured to build a team around,

I know, but I’ve loved watching the Tuilagis play since Freddy came to play for Leicester probably 13 years ago. When his brothers turned up, Henry, Alex, Manu and Andy turned up, it’s a freak of a family (in a very good way). Understand there’s another generation coming through as well now!

Manu, Burrell, Slade, Joseph, Barritt, maybe Eastmond. We need to experiment with those.

I would suggest making a bloody decision and going with it.

I would suggest making a bloody decision and going with it.

I think you hit the nail on the head there! That’s the one thing that hasn’t been done.

SCW’s take on England selection:

My England team for Saturday that I would have developed based on those fit to play: Watson; May, Burrell, Slade, Wade; Cipriani, Youngs; Marler, Hartley, Wilson; Lawes, Attwood; Robshaw, Haskell, Armitage.

I would suggest making a bloody decision and going with it.

They keep making decisions. The problem is they are the wrong bloody ones!

Does SCW have any credibility left? I take it thats daily mail clickbait?

My England team for Saturday that I would have developed based on those fit to play: Watson; May, Burrell, Slade, Wade; Cipriani, Youngs; Marler, Hartley, Wilson; Lawes, Attwood; Robshaw, Haskell, Armitage

I don’t think he’s a million miles off there you know. I’d play Webber over Hartley at the moment but that’s a marginal call. I’d also pick Morgan over Armitage but again, that is marginal.

It’s bold, but I very much doubt that he’d have the balls to select that side against aus if he were the current manager. The minute fatty armitage gets in the squad, England players would be scampering to France. I hope it doesn’t happen.

Does SCW have any credibility left?

Not a lot IMO but that looks like a decent lineup and it’s picked as if it had been developed up to this point rather than thrown together suddenly.

I was thinking about the disastrous 2005 Lions Tour and despite all the terrible mistakes we’d still have got hammered with Geech in charge of all the right players. That NZ team was unstoppable and Dan Carter emerged as a true world class player.

Contrast to 2013 when a well selected, coached and managed squad faced an Australia team in total disarray and yet only won the series by virtue of a slip of a non-kicking foot.

Can’t see it happening (Armitage).
If he was gonna try him, he’d be in the squad by now.
Year out from WC is fine for a bit of experimenting. These games are for finding out about players and what they can offer for next year. And more important, who’s not quite up to it.
I see it as good management to be trying the combos they are, and testing a few players out of position for cover in future 23s. All this “Must Win” nonsense is just media hype. As long as they don’t get completely spanked, and they find out a bit about they’re oppo’s, then there’s no disaster. But I also think with direct WC group oppos, there’s a bit of kidology going on too, holding something back for next year. (Personally, I’m convinced that’s what’s happening with Burrell – IMO no way they’ll play in the WC without either him or Manu at 13 ‘cos he already knows it works)
ABs have been doing it all autumn – back up 10s playing 14 and 15, 12s and 13s swapped, finding who offers best option for next year. There’s injuries involved too, but they won the last match without Carter, Nonu, Fekitoa, Jane, and Dagg.

Carter was pants v scotland, Nonu is injured, Fekitoa not as good as Smith, Jane is broken and other Smith playing better than Dagg. NZ know there first 15 though and its a settled team unlike england who dont have a settled team less than a year out from the world cup. Its a worry, although not for me. England dont need to develop back up they need to develop a pattern in the backs, that doesnt come from changing players like I change my pants.

that doesnt come from changing players like I change my pants.

Weekly in the autumn and spring and otherwise never? 😀

Ok so not that often just once in autumn and spring, not weekely I’m not that posh!

@loum I’m not so sure a year out from the world cup is the time for experimenting. Most of your starting XV should be inked in with space for injury swaps and late bolters.

The problem is, England don’t seem to know how they’re going to play so it’s impossible to determine who is going to play.

The ABs have system of play and Super Rugby sides play a similar way so players can slot in easily.

England should aim for a 6N win because they CANNOT win the RWC. Frankly the 6N looks beyond them too.

Can’t really see what the questions over style of play are. If they’re to get out of that group, then they’ll play the “England” way. They need to beat Oz and/or Wales. They won’t be looking for an open game.
They’ll try to dominate up front. Rely on set pieces, kick territory, maul, big carriers at lock and 8. Deny ball to the oppo’s backs, grind the oppo’s pack out of the game. Back’s will be picked for their defense at least as much as their attack – Farrell and Barrit will be there. And one of Manu or Burrell at 13 if fit.

It won’t be pretty, but it is the way they know to beat the teams they need to.

Any team can win the RWC. Nonsense to suggest otherwise, especially on the the top 5 teams and on home soil.

I’m going to go on record and state Wales cant win the world cup. Or scotland.

Havent looked at the draw but would expect england to have to beat at least two of Aus, SA and NZ, cant see it happening.

I’m going to go on record and state Wales cant win the world cup. Or scotland.

They can! Well Wales can 😀

Wales can beat england at twickers or aus then at least one of SA or NZ…yeah right

tbh I always thought this was the lucky draw for wales. If they are going to raise their game it will be against us. Then they might get a head of steam and go and do it.

Have you seen pool c? Or D beating either ireland or france would be easier or pool b. Beat SA Samoa or scotland

😀

@Loum the style of play you suggest will beat most 6N teams most of the time but it’s just been proved it can’t beat NZ or SA.
To beat those sides you need to score more tries and that’s not going to happen.
The aim is winning the RWC not just getting out of the group and to do that you’re probably gonna have to beat one or both of the top 2.

http://www.bloodandmud.com/2014/11/shitgood-ratings-autumn-internationals-week-three.html

Some rude words but mostly sfw. Quite funny view on Brad Barrit and the welsh lineout.

Wales should have won the last world cup, they had a fantastic team and NZ where near paralyzed by nerves. If the ref had done a remotely decent job France would have won the final with two or three clear penalties not awarded in the closing minutes, France where a team who struggled to beat 14 man Wales.

Wales cannot win the 2015 RWC

@Loum the style of play you suggest will beat most 6N teams most of the time but it’s just been proved it can’t beat NZ or SA.

Nonsense, RWC is won by tight disciplined play and kicking – its pressure rugby of the highest order.

Wales lost to SA in the opening game, then lost to aus in the first place. No way should they have or would have beat NZ. Massive historical revisionism. Wales havent beaten , sa or nz for almost 15 years aus for about 8 years,

Jambalaya, I agree to some degree but along with disciplined play and good kicking you need to have the ability to take the opportunities when they’re presented. No-one has beaten NZ since the last RWC without scoring a few tries.

England can be disciplined but good kicking/chasing and taking try scoring chances are not currently skills they have.

Wales record in 2011 RWC read: Lost to SA, beat Ireland , lost to France, lost to Australia. Not exactly world beating stuff. Fair enough, the unfair red card didn’t help but France were woeful in the semi.

We’ll never know what might have transpired in the final between NZ and Wales. My own hunch is Wales would’ve tried to play rugby and NZ, free of the terrible notion of losing to france, would have done the same and scored 50 points.

the unfair red card didn’t help

the red card was fair, it was all the other refs not being fair and giving yellows for similar tackles that was unfair.

Personally I really don’t think he should have been sent off as the ref had the option to work up or down to/from a red card or however it was worded. Take your point about consistency.

No matter. It’s history now. I think SW took it like a true gentlemen and I’ll always admire him for that.

I thought the red card was very harsh, a slight lapse from Sam in letting him go but no comparison to the spear tackle on BOD for example as per @aa’s post.

@namaste – Even England score enough tries to beat NZ, we’ve beaten them or run them close the last 5 games. We lost the last one due to a dropped try scoring pass and losing our way/dire kicking from 9 & 10.

More RWC tickets on sale today, colleague got what should be a good QF in Cardiff Argentina vs Ireland or France.

@sputnik – those where the days when the ABs where mostly from NZ rather than the Pacific Islands

I remember when england were mostly english as well 😉

South Africa: Willie le Roux, Cornal Hendricks, Jan Serfontein, Jean de Villiers (captain), Lwazi Mvovo, Pat Lambie, Cobus Reinach; Tendai Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Coenie Oosthuizen, Eben Etzebeth, Victor Matfield (vice-captain), Marcell Coetzee, Teboho “Oupa” Mohoje, Duane Vermeulen
Replacements: Adriaan Strauss, Trevor Nyakane, Julian Redelinghuys, Lood de Jager, Nizaam Carr, Francois Hougaard, Handré Pollard, Damian de Allende

jambalaya – New Zealand IS a Pacific Island. What is your point aside from casual racism ?

@Jambalaya yeah we have scored a few tries against NZ but the trouble is – they’ve scored a few more!

In the last 5 tests, we played well in the autumn 2013 game and should have won the first test in the summer. The worrying thing is, we’ve been well beaten in the last three which indicates no improvement on England’s part coupled with NZ figuring out how to exploit our weaknesses.

The one point second test loss in the summer concealed the fact that we were totally blown away during a 20 minute purple patch for the ABs and scored two late tries when we were 15pts adrift. We were thrashed in the third test and then this autumn, once again, a late score masked the fact that NZ were 10pts better.

England have not progressed one iota since SL’s honeymoon period ended. Had he dispensed with OF and given Ford and Cipriani a few more run outs then something better might have developed by now. It’s a lot to expect Ford to suddenly galvanize a back division which contains an outside centre thus described by bloodandmud:

Brad Barritt – For the computer, this man in an international shirt has a low acceptance tolerance. Injuries and the “defensive” argument only go so far when the bottom line is he is not talented enough to play international rugby. Commentators wax about his tackling, as if making tackles is a skill of Phil Bennett sidestep proportions (hint: it isn’t), but what is more important to point out is that his attacking has as much incision and threat as a dundee cake rolled down a disabled access ramp.

Is jambalaya saying that racism?