STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

AA has it right, anyone calling for Lancaster to go needs to remember where England were under MArtin Johnson…….

We had a slightly better win ratio and won a sx nations if I remember rightly? Not sure what SL and the league forward who’s now in charge of our backs have yet managed to win?

the league forward who’s now in charge of our backs

I was at the match with a school friend of Mike Catt’s (fellow South African 😉 ) and I was asking him how it was we had a league forward with a poor record in Union on the senior coaching staff why Catt had a more junior role. I was no admirer of Catt as an international fly half but when he moved to centre he was more in his element and his creativity and passing where excellent

. I was no admirer of Catt as an international fly half but when he moved to centre he was more in his element and his creativity and passing where excellent

I must have missed that game.

I must have missed that game.

He played well at full back too.

I was at the match with a school friend of Mike Catt’s (fellow South African ) and I was asking him how it was we had a league forward with a poor record in Union on the senior coaching staff why Catt had a more junior role

Did he furnish you with an answer?

Cirpiani is where he should be, in the wilderness. He is a talented player, was given a great chance was wasn’t as good as he thought (found out against Boks in particular). Was unlucky with nasty injury but showed poor application generally and no discipline off the field. IMO not right in the head so that’s it he’s gone. He failed to grasp what was required at international level off the field in terms of preparation so he’s had his chance, that ship has sailed.

Mostly true but he’s matured and knuckled down the last couple of seasons and is still what? 26? He was poorly handled by MJ.

He went on the tour to NZ and acquitted himself well and has played some blinders for Sale this season. Not good enough it seems. After the RWC he’ll be off to France, if he has any sense.

He’s still the only English FH who can do this:

Edwards has never played union but is an excellent coach. I dont think it matters.

I dont think it matters.

You’re right – it doesn’t matter that Farrell came from league. It does matter that he is NOT an excellent coach.

BTW the best game of rugby I watched over the weekend was the NZ/Aus Rugby League 4 Nations final. Brilliant match.

He’s still the only English FH who can do this:

George Ford not only can, but regularly does. Didn’t rate him at Leicester, but damn good at Bath.

You’re right – it doesn’t matter that Farrell came from league. It does matter that he is NOT an excellent coach.

Agreed, however I just couldn’t see how, with watching Saracens play a defensive, forwards only game while he coached there, that anyone could possibly think he would do any different for England. Rightly enough, with all the fire power available, England back line hasn’t looked like a threat for the last few years. the players are there. They do it for there clubs. What is so wrong with the England set up that it prevents any playing of what’s there and results in a game by numbers?

What is so wrong with the England set up that it prevents any playing of what’s there and results in a game by numbers?

They do it for there clubs. What is so wrong with the England set up that it prevents any playing of what’s there and results in a game by numbers?

‘puters. How else can you explain that, and despite the positive comments re Mike Catt, you rarely see the England 3/4 do anything other than pass down the line and fail to follow ball carrier Mike Brown?

What is so wrong with the England set up that it prevents any playing of what’s there and results in a game by numbers?

all teams play by the numbers………or to a plan …otherwise we would all be watching Fiji who are wonderful players but need a plan see Wales at the weekend.

Would any of the england back line get into the AB’s or Boks? Brown maybe but that is it. You may have to face up to the fact that they aren’t that good? I think any spontineity they have is coached and drilled out of them from an early age.

It’s hard to see much from that Youtube vid, but I recon that try is as much to do with bad defending as any great play on Cipriani’s. International defence’s aren’t going to make those mistakes on a regular basis.

Would any of the england back line get into the AB’s or Boks?

Good question. I can see Tuilagi in there, maybe Brown but other than that, no I can’t. Having said that, I can’t help but think that Burrel, 12Trees, Ford, Cipriani, Yard, Wade, Strettle etc would actually be very good players if they were allowed to play an attacking game every so often and had the ability to try something that if didn’t work out, didn’t result in a potential team demotion. All the exciting players are allowed to play, look at the super 12/14/15 (whatever they are this week) and how ome of the Irish / Welsh boys have gone off the boil now that they are in the Top 14.
There’s no doubt in my mind that the weekly grind of playing conservative rugby slowly strips a player of the ability to play a game that challanges those that do.
However, I’ve also watched players who are absolutely on fire for Leicester, go away to England training and come back with terrible facets to there paying. The step and pass scrum half is the most telling of these, something I noticed Care starting to do as well at the weekend. It’s certainly something Harry Ellis and Ben Youngs picked up on international duty.

its tic tactical, draw defenders in for the pop pass to an oncoming forward (or Jamie Roberts if your Welsh).

put Ford, 12trees, Yarde and Wade in the England backline and every decent team will steamroller them

spontaneity doesnt help at that level the All Blacks are the least spontaneous team in world rugby, they create gaps and then exploit it, its all planned. England create gaps but often lack the basic skills to draw a man and pass to players in space.

case in point, fast forward to about 1hour 30 mins, last play look at where 1/2p starts near the ruck its flung wide and no one straightens so 1/2p can make the tackle. Awful play by pro players

Tuilagi no chance, a one trick bish bash bosh pony, Brown was exceptional last year but so far this year hasn’t shone. It is the way england won the world cup, monster pack suck in all the defenders throw it out wide or rely on saint jonny to kick the inevitable penalties. england have never been a flair team. It is just the way they play.

Edwards has never played union but is an excellent coach. I don’t think it matters.

@aa this is true, no doubt. But he started in club rugby learning his trade and if I correct focused on defense initially for England before making the move to Wales.

Brown (first choice) and Tuilagi (sub) would make AB/Boks backline IMO, so agree with those above.

Who would Brown replace????

Ha ha preface hits the jackpot, who indeed.

Who the hell is Preface 😆

The bloke who posted just before I did 🙂

Brown is a good player who had an exceptional season last year and is now showing that he’s merely a good player again.

Foden is a far more talented player and it’s another huge mistake leaving him out. Delon Armitage is up there too although he fails the d***head test.

No-one from the England back line would make the ABs. Tuilagi over Conrad Smith? You must be joking? OK Smith got burned by May but look at his other 83 tests where he was nigh on the perfect centre.

@Pigface – Dagg or le Roux, Brown would play 15. that’s my unbiased opinion 😉

Delon Armitage is up there too although he fails the d***head test.

He must be really bad if both Brown and Hartley passed the aforementioned test.

its flung wide and no one straightens so 1/2p can make the tackle. Awful play by pro players

Perfect example. Brown demonstrates exactly how NOT to draw a man and give a pass.

1/2p is one out from the ruck when the ball comes out but still is able to knock himself out on Strettle. The long pass and players just shunting it wide ruined a stone cold chance.

Talking of rucks this is an interesting article on all the breakdowns in the Ireland SA game from last week. Its a bit technical but very interesting reading

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Did I mention we are ranked 3rd in the world 😀

The long pass and players just shunting it wide ruined a stone cold chance.

That sentence could’ve been included in every England match report since 2004………..

Would any of the england back line get into the AB’s or Boks?

Nope. But lets get this straight; NO players from the NH would break into the AB or Boks back line. Not a single one.

North and one of the welsh centres would be thereabouts for SA.

Oh and Fofana wouldnt look out of place for the all blacks imo.

NO players from the NH would break into the AB or Boks back line. Not a single one.

I would suggest when fit
Jonathon Sexton
wesley fofana
George north
1/2p

anagallis_arvensis – Member
North and one of the welsh centres would be thereabouts for SA.

Ha Ha Ha very good…

@aa Fofana looked great against the ABs last year and I was expecting him to shine in the 6 nations yet he did very little

Jonathon Sexton
Wouldn’t even make the AB bench. May make the bok bench.
wesley fofana
He really wouldn’t
George north
Perhaps the only exception (for the boks)
1/2p
No chance whatsoever.
Neither welsh centres would make the bench of either team.

Looks like Chris Henry out for a while.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30083118

put Ford, 12trees, Yarde and Wade in the England backline and every decent team will steamroller them

And a bunch of quotes from later posts:

You’re missing the point I was making. The players themselves have all the natural ability required. However – there is something in club level, and this seems to get worse at international level, that stops these players from becoming who they could be.

AA when I say ‘playing what’s in front’, I’m not talking about spontaneity, I’m saying that you do the things coached because of the players against you lining up, and by doing them, you create the opportunities. However, you watch England and you’ll see players doing things that make no sense whatsoever just because they’ve been told to, and the opponents are somewhere else, so they make bugger all sense! Reading Martin Johnson’s autobiography, he talks about this and how ridiculous most of the set moves they used to teach are. I can’t help but think there’s a level of this still going on.