Soooo Butchers are scary

Had the first off in years last weekend, it would appear that Butchers are skatey as hell on wet roots – actually that is an understatement. They do not hook up at all on wet roots. Between my bad riding that day and the tyres, I went down like a sack of shit with no warning in the most inglorious manner at Coed-Y-Brenin last weekend – between all the dodging of falling trees. 😆 Can’t decide what was more dangerous, the tyres or the 70mph winds blowing trees over.

Anyhow, should I just default to HR2’s? I’ve only ever used the old High Rollers, I don’t really want to have to go full dual ply and I can’t bring myself to pay an extortionate fee for the Schwalbe 1.5 ply tyres.

It’s a shame, because in all other conditions the Butchers are great.

What size wheels?

26 inch Marys are cheap, I run a 2.35 on the front…..out back it’s a 2.3 Minion DHR2….been great so far this winter although not for proper off piste slop obviously.

In sloppy situations I’ll go for a Dirty Dan up front and put the Mary out back.

DHR2 is great on the front until it gets to Shorty time (wet/loamy etc). Prefer it to a HR/HR2.

I’m lazy and quite good at riding any old tyre through deep mud, so spikes are out. Pointless unless I was racing a couple of UK dh tracks. I don’t want tyres that will squirm like hell.

I will check out the prices on Marys – I’m running 27.5 though 🙁

Thanks deviant. Are any of the Michelin tyres decent on wet roots and rocks?

Is that the Butcher Control? They’re quite hard compound – the Butcher Grid is stickier.

Really impressed with the DHR2 3C.

Butcher Grids…..they are stickier but I’ve read good things about the controls and now it turns out that a few reviews mention that the Grids are skatey.

Maybe it’s because it’s a dual compound, 42a over 70a rubber. So perhaps the tyre rebounds quicker and doesn’t hold a line as well?

I don’t like em on the front but they’re fantastic on the back imo- they have that mysterious good slip, when they let go they’re so consistent and manageable. But I don’t think they’ve got the rubber right for the front. And yep, the Control’s a lightweight carcass which has its bad sides but makes it more able to glom around things.

Minion dhf 3C? Highroller 2 is good but not very knobbly for this time of year and can be a bit abrupty-sideways when it’s muddy.

Tom, couldn’t say about Michelins but I’m intrigued by their mud tyre….all the reviews say there’s nothing better but it is draggy as hell on the flat, very much a DH mud tyre if that makes sense….not really for trail use.

Their Magi-x compound is supposed to be as good as Maxxis’s 42a/supertacky stuff so I’ll be trying their tamer tread patterns out next time I see them in a CRC sale.

Minion 3c,of the selection everyone else was running and clogging (hans, Mary, couple of others) it was excellent on roots, mud and everything else.

Yep, also not a fan of the butcher in the wet slop. Just switched to hillbilly which is very good in our terrain but may not suit what you’re after. The grid hillbilly is quite a beast of a tyre.

How much mud will you be riding?

If mostly firm trails then hr2 3c exo.

If a significant amount of slop then magic Mary.

Unfortunately the Mary you need (snakeskin trailstar) is not in stock anywhere. I know this because I want one in 650b too.

Butcher grid = my fav allround tyre. Only situation it cant handle is sticky mud, but around here (wet mud+roots+chalk) its fantastic front tyre.

Horses for courses I suppose

What tyre pressure were you running? You can run the grids quite low (20psi), I’m 15stone in riding kit.

Happy to run the 1.5 ply Marys instead of the snakeskin model.

I was running about 24 psi at the front. My old mans 2.35 Minion DHF hooked up better and that is a really skinny tyre.

So Minions, Marys or HR2s then. Thanks for the advice guys, tyres can be quite an expensive mistake these days. Will leave the butchers for the the summer.

disappointing. was hoping for some kind of saw / cleaver / carcass / striped apron and manic grin story 😥

I was running about 24 psi at the front. My old mans 2.35 Minion DHF hooked up better and that is a really skinny tyre.

I tried a puragtory on the front and that was 60a centre/50 shoulders, found them skatey on anything but graded trail centres, they did roll a bit quicker. Put the butcher back on the front, got the grip back again. For me there isn’t a noticeable difference between the minion and the butcher.

disappointing. was hoping for some kind of saw / cleaver / carcass / striped apron and manic grin story

That’s what I had in mind too.

“And stepping fresh from the slaughterhouse the crimson butcher ran,
The steam around his shoulders still, a cleaver still in his hand”.

The Kiss – Jake Thackray

I’m happy running a butcher control on our local rootfest trails. Is yours pumped up hard? Brakedrag less?

I do prefer a minion though. 2.35s will hook up better in the slop. I don’t see the point of a wider tyre – maybe in the summer?

It’s pointless going by psi as everyone’s pump is different. Go by feel. 20psi on my pump is about 45psi on the lbs one!

Will anything grip on wet roots?

Wet roots are more about technique than hoping for a tyre that offers dry levels of grip. A studded tyre might offer some help though!

Butchers are great three quarters of thw year, but dont have deep enough tread for bad mud, I use a shorty for winter instead

Meh, never had an issue on wet roots before. They certainly felt skatey before the off.

butcher grid here up front and pretty much all my riding is on off camber roots…great tyre.

Wonder if it’s the weird 46mm offset on my Reign combined with my new 35mm stem then, not loading the front tyre up enough?

Still, some here seem to think that they are bad in the wet as well.

In regards to the Shorty

Extra care does need to be taken on wet roots and rocks, and while they aren’t quite as treacherous as a traditional mud spike can be, they’ll still slide out quite suddenly if you lose focus on the task at hand. When it comes down to it, the Shorty is still a specialist, and although the range of conditions it works well in is broader than its full-spike relatives, for most riders it won’t be a tire that they put on and forget about for the rest of the year like a Maxxis Minion or a High Roller II.

That’s the shorty out then. I don’t tend to ride mud or wet loam anyway, mostly wet hardpack and wet roots/rocks. The minions tread does seem more closely spaced than then Butchers, so maybe its that.

I tend to find the Butcher is a great tyre most of the time especially when it’s dry. I was out last night on the 29er in the slop and found the Butcher ok on the wet roots but I definitely don’t trust it the same way I trust a Magic Mary or WTB Vigilante in really shitty conditions.

Maxxis Crossmarks F&R

Brilliant winter tyre 😯

butcher grid here up front and pretty much all my riding is on off camber roots…great tyre.

+1 switched from high roller to butcher grid front and purgatory rear. great combo

Glad there’s a counter-argument here as I’ve just bought some based on all the rave reviews!

While I think of it…

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/specialized-tyres-psa-sort-of

No tyres work on properly wet slippery roots. I think you are looking to buy a solution to the problem instead of accepting that you are the problem.
There was a thread a week or so back where someone asked about riding slippery roots. Might be worth trying to find and having a read.

I’ve got them on a Reign as well Tom, and had them on a 29er HT before.

I do find them good all rounders TBH but more for the summer months round here. I’d have thought they were a good choice for CYB, but maybe I’ve just learned how far they can be trusted.

On this basis…

I don’t tend to ride mud or wet loam anyway, mostly wet hardpack and wet roots/rocks.

I’d choose the HR2 myself, it’s not as good as a Mary in the mud but a fair bit less draggy I reckon.

On hardpack I think the control casings are a bit too flimsy if you’re riding relatively hard and you weigh a decent amount yourself ie >85kg

Running the Butcher Controls on all our bikes, run them at 30 psi. Use them all year round in all conditions and never had a problem. Purgatorys on the back on all but Abigales new Enduro which has a Slaughter.

andysredmini – Member

No tyres work on properly wet slippery roots

Not so much that they grip on roots, more that they have a footprint the size of a fat lady’s thigh so usually only a little bit of the tyre is on the root

Always been keen on hr2, but the last 650b one I got was v sketchy when I went to Snowdon, and even a bit iffy on gritstone. swopped it for a hans dampf which I’ve found v confidence inspiring, hasn’t scared me once over the last 6 wet weeks

I’m running HR2s front and rear. Front is the 3C compound and is reallllly grippy.
Rolls well too 😀

[Quote]bigjim – Member
Wet roots are more about technique than hoping for a tyre that offers dry levels of grip. [/quote]

I agree. I run butchers front, purgatory rear all year on my fs. Wet roots are slippy so angle and commitment are more of a factor imho.

I run Ardents on my hardtail all year too and I keep being told I’ll die. So far I haven’t.

It’s all about compromise imho.

Butchers run fairly soft are as good on the wet roots round here as any front tyre I’ve tried.

Trailrakers however…

Butcher Grid tubeless here superb tyre shame they are so heavy but rather have the control and toughness they give for the weight penalty!

Love Butcher up front, but not many roots round here. Paired it with a Slaughter on back.