So how close were we to guns pulled yesterday?

OK, which illegal tactics are they?

Kettling in circumstances of public disorder is perfectly legal – Austin (FC) & another v Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis (2009)

Look it up and learn!

Illegal police tactics on football fans

I also think that the tactics of whacking innocent students over the head with blunt objects would fall into the illegal. Then trying to deny that same person emergecy life saving treatment is apalling. Imagine if stdents blockaded hospitals and prevented others emergency treatment.

Human rights violations and unnessecary force are all part of the tactics. Both illegal.

Look it up and learn!

Well at least your not condesending in your blinkered beliefs 🙄

My Daughter was at one two weeks back where the Police was spraying people in the face with some type of spray.

The end of the day how long can an inocent person regardless of age be continuously hit without hitting back?

grantway – Member

The end of the day how long can an inocent person regardless of age be continuously hit without hitting back?

Ask one of the Policemen who were being set upon?

LOL Drudith

I know many police who have been well up for this
They loved it when they done the miners
and also when they stampede the printers stike at Wapping

The Police constantly hide there numbers and i have also known where
they swap them with others to throw identification

I take it your one of Camerons Angels

Let’s just fund useful degrees and not bother with rubbish like media studies, art etc..

What an incredibly ignorant thing to say. assuming you actually meant it.

Have you any idea what a ‘useless Media Studies degree’ entails? Have you?

Jesus Haribo Christ. My ‘useless Media Studies’ degree has enabled me to gain knowledge in such diverse fields as Architectural Design, Cultural Production and Psychology. Just a couple of examples. My ‘useless Media Studies Degree’ has enabled me to use my skills and talents to benefit industries such as Special Needs Education, Physiotherapy and even a Mountain Biking event.

See, unless you actually have a real knowledge of what each and every degree entails, then you are unqualified to criticise, quite frankly. To suggest that the only degrees that are deserving of funding are those which seem to offer a direct economic benefit to profitable industries is just incredibly naive and blinkered.

So, in your obviously enlightened and objective view, what degrees are actually ‘useful’?

one that gets you a job 😉

My Daughter was at one two weeks back where the Police was spraying people in the face with some type of spray

.

Would it be this?

Halon extinguishers contain toxic elements such as bromine and fluorine, and have been linked to breathing difficulties, skin and eye irritation, dizziness and even unconsciousness.
Metropolitan Police denied using the extinguishers for crowd control and said halon devices were chiefly deployed to put out fires on people.

So, Metropolitan Police proved of lying, basically. Evidence? It’s there. I don’t think anyone can argue with that!

They loved it when they done the miners

funnily enough the stories I’ve heard about some of that from both ex NCB blokes I’ve worked with and ex police who were there seems to indicate that on the whole there was a lot of banter and sharing of cups of tea etc… to the point were the police had to get other forces in to prevent “fraternising with the enemy”. (based on evidence from Stoke miners and police)

yes there were some bloody battles between the sides but to paint all of the police as a bunch of fascist thugs and all protesters as fluffy bunnies is such a simplistic and untrue view.

I’ve had my share of serious aggro the police and really don’t like them, but we always has the theory that if you go for them and provoke them you can’t then cry foul when they come hard and fast back.

there are fight loving yobs on both sides of the line, the difficulty is when they clash with non-combatants caught in the middle.

just out of interest how many people have also ended up with projectiles thrown at the police lines ending up falling short. I remember seeing some chap next to getting floored by a half brick thrown by a clown behind us. Not all head injuries are as a result of a batton charge

what degrees are actually ‘useful’?

kelvin
celcius
farenheit

😀

Ajf

all you’ve offered me is a contention that the use of those powers by the police was illegal – No judgement, no ECHR ruling, just a contention by human rights group liberty and the FSF.

Now, unless you can produce a court judgement which shows that police used an illegal tactic, then you’re swinging in the wind!

You see, if you’d had the intelligence to point me towards Laporte v Gloucestershire, you’d be on the right track, however that ruled that the search, prohibition from joining the protest and detention was legal, only the forced return to London was unlawful…

Effinsaftey

Yeah she says that was the stuff and from the off they was
spraying that constantly in peoples faces

You see, if you’d had the intelligence to point me towards Laporte v Gloucestershire, you’d be on the right track

You’re very rude and patronising aren’t you?

And why are you using completely different case to make your point? It doesn’t make you look any cleverer you know.

Bunch of protestors prevented from travelling to an airbase where US bombers were flying out from. Hmm, strange that, eh? 😕

Halon

A family of chemical gases, similar to CFCs, except they contain at least one bromine atom. The trade name ‘halon’ is applied to several of these chemicals, which are used as fire suppressants. They are inert, non-toxic, and evaporate without leaving any residue.

they are ozone depleters though so the police have increased global warming

You learn something new every day, eh Tazzy? 🙂

What have we learned from this thread?

What have we learned from this thread?

that there are strongly polarised views on both sides of the debate. the truth is likely to be the messy bit in the middle that nobody wants to examine to closely as it makes for uncomfortable thinking to believe that either innocent protesters of the police could actually want to provoke or attack each other whilst in the anonymity of a crowd.

nice to see you back elfin this place was quiet without you 😀

Now, unless you can produce a court judgement which shows that police used an illegal tactic, then you’re swinging in the wind!

To be fair I can’t produce a court judgement as it was settled out of court for large sums of money

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/25062010/58/premier-league-stoke-fans-win-police-payout.html

http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/Police_admit_unlawful_use_of_section_27_on_Stoke_fan.php

But they did admit it was unlawful.

Why should I have had to point you towards Laporte v Gloucestershire? You obviously know it has nothing to do with either football or student riots so albeit showing even more examples of bad policing, had nothing to do with the fact that the police has acted unlawfully with both football fans and students.

Also strangely you ask what illegal tactics they use, yet you obviously know that they do use illegal tactics in crowd control. So you could have answered your own question.

Found this on Halon gasses so what the **** are Camerons
Angles allowed to use it?

null

So I dont think you’ll find proper medical help to hand if
all these people fail to the exposure of Halon

James Welch, legal director at Liberty, said: “This is yet another example of overly broad powers being used inappropriately. If you give the police powers that are not tightly defined, they are going to abuse them.

Doesn’t say they were illegal, just used inappropriately because they were too broad, ie. they were not proportionate – that does notmean it was unlawful, only the press headline says that, and the police apology letters didn’t accept unlawfulness, only that the powers were used erroneously!

Back to the subject:

I genuinely sympathise with any peaceful protesters who wanted to make their voices heard, but by taking part in an event that everyone knew was going to descend into violence and disorder, you put yourself in a position where you were likely to be kettled, and by not leaving when violence began, you’ve become part of the problem!

Only thing is Zulu-Eleven regarding Kettling The Police
Kept them held for more than Ten Hours.

And also Kettling started before trouble started

Only thing is Zulu-Eleven regarding Kettling The Police
Kept them held for more than Ten Hours.

Well, if people had been calm and well behaved, I would imagine they could have gone home much, much earlier!

And also Kettling started before trouble started

Blatantly not true, containment was only activated in at 15.30h – the paint bombs and violence began at 1400h!

to be fair it won’t be halon 1211 as that was withdrawn from use in 2003 due to the envrionmental impact of it’s use.

only exemptions for halon use are MOD and aircraft

is there such a thing as a peaceful protest. they all end in tears, stay away if you don’t want to risk injury. what would have happened without the police presence? more or less injuries?

‘The pin is always removed so its use is instantaneous.

‘By design, these fire extinguishers are extremely sensitive and can easily be discharged by sudden movement or pressure.’

Well that explains it then.

And it was a bit of luck that the copper in the picture was pointing the fire extinguisher straight at the protesters, when it accidentally went off ……. and not at himself or any of his colleagues.

Funny that.

Oh come on Z-11 you’re boring now. You’ve had yer say; had yer little ego-trip, now chill out feller.

I genuinely sympathise with any peaceful protesters who wanted to make their voices heard, but by taking part in an event that everyone knew was going to descend into violence and disorder, you put yourself in a position where you were likely to be kettled, and by not leaving when violence began, you’ve become part of the problem!

The vast majority went along to protest peacefully. The demonstration was hijacked by a tiny minority of violent thugs, intent on causing trouble. This led to the police using excessive force against a majority of otherwise mainly peaceful demonstrators, and employing unnecessary and provocative kettling tactics proven to be counter-productive in such situations.

Zulu; all you know is what you’ve read about in the right-wing press you’ve chosen to read. Don’t try making out you’re some sort of authority on such matters. You’ve allowed your prejudices to cloud your judgement of these events, and your bigotry is painfully obvious. Give it a rest mate.

Elfinsafety – Member

The vast majority went along to protest peacefully. I agree, but…

The demonstration was hijacked by a tiny minority of violent thugs, intent on causing trouble.

anyone with half a brain knew that this was going to happen.

Zulu Elfin; all you know is what you’ve read about in the right-wing Left-wing press you’ve chosen to read. Don’t try making out you’re some sort of authority on such matters. You’ve allowed your prejudices to cloud your judgement of these events, and your bigotry is painfully obvious. Give it a rest mate.

TFTFY 🙄

Like I said before – if people had been calm and well behaved, and protested peacefully, I would imagine they could have gone home much, much earlier!

Anyone who went into parliament square was in breach of the agreed protest route, they entered into this of their own free will – with rights, go responsibilities!

anyone with half a brain knew that this was going to happen.

Of course. Same way as only a tiny minority of car drivers will drive like idiots. You don’t see roads closed off as a result though do you? And people still die.

Look at Zulu: Sitting there thinking ‘how can I get back at Elfin in a witty and sarcastic manner?’. Don’t bother son. I’m more impressed at the massive poos my mate’s nipper does.

And you ain’t seen nothing yet. Wait until the unions put a large demo out at the same time along with a large scale strike.

I see serious civil unrest greater than the miners strike coming

a million people on the streets? perfectly possible

Zulu-Eleven I was regarding to the protest Two weeks back!!

Regarding your times if your getting them from the media
I wouldnt take them as actual as there has been alot missed out

🙄

also think that the tactics of whacking innocent students over the head with blunt objects would fall into the illegal

Not exactly innocent are they the little oiks. Any person who thinks its acceptable to be hell bent on being violent and do criminal damage should expect to be met with the full force of the law. Its pretty straight forward really. And as for that Charlie Gilmour – well I hope he gets the book thrown at him.

Elfinsafety – Member
> anyone with half a brain knew that this was going to happen.
Of course. Same way as only a tiny minority of car drivers will drive like idiots. You don’t see roads closed off as a result though do you? And people still die.

Yes, but when we go out on the roads – as drivers, cyclists or pedestrians, we know that there is a risk. We decide whether or not that is a risk worth taking. People going to these protests can surely assess the risk of there being disruption – and subsequent police action – and choosing to participate or not?

That is true Tamdem My friend is a tube driver he has
spoken about this strike.
Dont think this will lie here

so if you get run over on the road by a drunk driver we blame you as you knew the risk?
Not really sure what your point is? We should not do lawful acts because someone doing something unlawful near you may result in you getting hurt so best stay at home.

Wait until the unions put a large demo …….

You’ve got to wait a while yet…….it will be on 26 March 2011.

Look at Zulu: Sitting there thinking ‘how can I get back at Elfin in a witty and sarcastic manner?’. Don’t bother son. I’m more impressed at the massive poos my mate’s nipper does.

You wouldn’t have bothered mentioning it if it wasn’t getting to you Napoleon 😉

Of course. Same way as only a tiny minority of car drivers will drive like idiots. You don’t see roads closed off as a result though do you? And people still die.

And when the police close the motorway because there has been a crash, you don’t see drivers getting out and throwing bricks at them either do you?

I don’t recall seeing drivers stuck on a Scottish motorway in the snow last week getting out and rioting because the government hadn’t cleared all the snow!

You wouldn’t have bothered mentioning it if it wasn’t getting to you Napoleon

Calling him Napoleon ? ……how fitting, I can well imagine you as Hodges ratty

“”I love this war Mainwaring”

The demonstration was hijacked by a tiny minority of violent thugs, intent on causing trouble.

I’m not sure that I agree. I rather suspect that there are some people out there for whom these cuts are more than an inconvenience or more than a future repayments headache.
The reality for some people is that these cuts, including the proposed cuts to EMA, which is apparently off the radar of middleclasstrackworld, represent the end of their futures. This is likely to invoke violent reactions in normally peaceful young people.
How do I know this ? Because I felt and acted exactly the same way during civil disturbances in the summer of 1981.
Push people too far and they push back. Don’t like it ? Stop pushing.

Anyone who went into parliament square was in breach of the agreed protest route, they entered into this of their own free will – with rights, go responsibilities!

is there an iphone app that generates semi-legal sounding sequences of non-sensical phrases? I fear so…

I mean, where does the author get this stuff? How does part 1 of this nugget relate to the triumphant, smug yet unconnectable closer? I just don’t get it. The author would clearly benefit from a bit of higher education, perhaps a philosophy degree, oh wait, there aren’t any…what a shame 😯

But it’s not as simple as that, is it? Many artists have no qualifications, and there are thousands of jobs in the British Film Industry where a degree isn’t/wouldn’t be necessary. As said before (possibly in another thread), training can be done “on the job” in the form of apprenticeships. I’m willing to bet that, back when the British Film Industry was much bigger, a very small percentage of employees were degree educated.

No mate, it’s indeed a really complex one and I was a bit reluctant to open it up to be honest, so I’m not going to go off on one here. I think there are some things you need a few more years of education to do, for example being a doctor, or a lecturer teaching civil engineering or mathematics for example, but yes, much useful stuff can be learned on the job. Probably not molecular biology though, so the cure for cancer is probably not coming via YTS (showing my age there) 😀