Sir! Keir! Starmer!

I disagree with you that the entire population of the country are all thoroughly disenchanted. It may be that many are but to assume the way that you feel about this is the way that everyone does is plain wrong.

Ordinary people have had enough, that’s why so many signed.

I will bet money that this ‘grass roots’ petition started by some anonymous ‘small business owner’ will have right wing money behind it.  You know what? Ordinary people have been mostly shafted by 14 years of Tory. I guess when the ‘Farmer’ (read Landowner) protest failed to move the dial, this is the next idea.

I will bet money that this ‘grass roots’ petition started by some anonymous ‘small business owner’ will have right wing money behind it.

It does seem to be a textbox example of astroturf.

I do like all the right wingers suddenly finding out the disadvantages of FPTP after benefiting from it for years.

As opposed to the previous incumbents?

So, under the Tories we lost £1.5b a week, someone should put that on a bus and campaign to give it to the NHS instead.

I will bet money that this ‘grass roots’ petition started by some anonymous ‘small business owner’ will have right wing money behind it.  You know what? Ordinary people

It’s really choppy these days to call things out as ‘right wing money’ when your ‘lefty’ government courts big equity and wants to put the suffering back to work.

It’s really choppy these days to call things out as ‘right wing money’ when your ‘lefty’ government courts big equity and wants to put the suffering back to work.

Tbf, I don’t think anyone is even pretending that we have a lefty government.

I once started a petition for Walkers crisps to revert to the ‘proper’ crisp packet colours where salt & vinegar are blue and cheese & onion are green. Anything else is just a sick perversion, no doubt instigated by the opaquely funded ‘Big Crisp’ who probably have links to Keir Starmer. Probably..,

Anyway… they didn’t do it. There really is only one conclusion you can reach from this. We’re all clearly now living in a Stalinist dictatorship and Starmer is worse than Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao and …. erm… Stalin, all rolled into one

Tbf, I don’t think anyone is even pretending that we have a lefty government.

The people reading the heil do. Which ultimately is the problem of trying to kiss their arses.

It wont work and will just piss off anyone who doesnt think Hitler is a bit of a leftie.

Tbf, I don’t think anyone is even pretending that we have a lefty government.

Still pretending or just changed their mind?

We’re all clearly now living in a Stalinist dictatorship and Starmer is worse than Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao and …. erm… Stalin, all rolled into one

When you have to screech at an extreme to defend the current shambles.

All of this shows that the right wing super rich are bricking themselves. And the media channels whom claim to be ‘of the people’ are in super whine mode that the people are getting pay rises.

Indeed. Looking at the kind of people that the Starmer government is really pissing off, they’re clearly doing something right

Also… is anyone else feeling the irony of lots of right wing nutters starting an online petition?

Online petitions are a bit…. you know…

Over 1 Million signatures, brilliant!

“We’ve had enough!”

Scream the red-faced masses.

And what they really mean, like every other privileged group, is “we want more“.

And there’s always a pied piper to lead them on.

It’s so pathetic, I don’t know whether to laugh or despair!

Also… is anyone else feeling the irony of lots of right wing nutters starting an online petition?

Yup,  and not least because the current prime minister has just written a piece for the Mail on Sunday having a go at one of their favourite target – benefit claimants.  Ironic indeed.

Online petitions are a bit…. you know…

QUICK someone call Binners since we need a tedious meme image about those nasty lefties and Corbyn.

Oh wait a minute.

Never mind.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/22/leftwingers-far-right-conspiracy-theories-anti-vaxxers-power

Monbiot can be a plonker, but much of this article is spot on.

QUICK someone call Binners since we need a tedious meme image about those nasty lefties and Corbyn.

Oh wait a minute.

Never mind.

Well, **** it. A few middle englanders aren’t getting everything they want handed to them on a platter.

Might as well turf out the first Labour government in 14 years of austerity and give Farage a go.

It’s what Keir Hardie would have wanted.

Christ. I agree with daz. Must be the second time this year. I feel feint.

I was going to come back with a witty riposte, but I’m agreeing with him for once as well. To be fair, I probably agree with him quite a lot of the time, but this time agree with how it was written.

Whilst I’m disappointed that Starmer has failed to deliver what he promised when he became leader, I’m not sure a Russian bot farmed petition will lead to a better alternative, given the choices available.

And to be fair, the mainly right wing press has focused on the bad policies rather than the good ones

Whilst I’m disappointed that Starmer has failed to deliver what he promised when he became leader, I’m not sure a Russian bot farmed petition will lead to a better alternative, given the choices available.

Admirable. But it won’t stop the Russian bot farms trying.

Why would they stop? The UK electorate has shown itself to be unbelievably gullible on several occasions. It doesn’t cost them anything.

Admirable. But it won’t stop the Russian bot farms trying.

I doubt they are involved here. Its the hard right rags and their friends who are busy trying to influence government policy. That Starmer has popped up on the heil promising to crack down on welfare “cheats” shows Rothermere and friends threats are being noticed.

Why would they stop? The UK electorate has shown itself to be unbelievably gullible on several occasions.

Are you not impressed with Labour’s 174 seat majority?

Or do you see that as an example of gullibility?

Btw fenderextender your persistent “voters are thick” theory** might do down well on stw’s political threads but let’s hope that Labour politicians probe deeper and beyond simplistic explanations. Otherwise there really is the risk of a Tory-Reform coalition government in 2029.

** Obviously that theory only applies when they vote incorrectly, it instantly goes out the window when they vote correctly.

The big song and dance about fraudulent benefts claims doesn’t sit right with me, I’m not saying it’s an issue that should be ignored, but compared to the overall welfare budget, it’s peanuts, and over that, it’s such a small percentage of overall government spending I doubt it would even be visible on a pie chart…

…Surley Starmer has bigger fish to fry? Seems to me it’s just Mail/Tory-esque populist voter pandering.

…Surley Starmer has bigger fish to fry? Seems to me it’s just Mail/Tory-esque populist voter pandering.

It is. And with a large majority and 5 years to go why would he focus on it and even worse work with the Daily Mail unless there is some underlying belief in what he is doing and he priortises it.

 I’m not saying it’s an issue that should be ignored, but compared to the overall welfare budget, it’s peanuts,

I don’t think fraud is the main thrust of this, I think they are saying the welfare bill is too high full stop. Look at the announcements yesterday about stopping benefits for young people who won’t engage. There is an ever increasing number of people leaving the Labour market through ill health at all ages, the question is as a country are we siker than we were (possible post covid), have people accelerated their I’ll health through lifestyle or has the threshold for not being able to work fallen so people that would have worked 20 years ago with the same condition don’t believe they are capable of working now.

Bottom line is the welfare bill is rising and in reality it will be all 3 factors at play, 14 years of Tory government certainly impacted the health of the nation. I think Labour realise the bill can’t keep going up exponentially, whether they can effectively tackle it I don’t know but expect lots more clamping down on benefit recipients type statements in the coming months.

Benefits are the wrong area to look of you want to actually fix problems in society.

It’s the same driver as the Tories.

The benefits ‘bill’ is not an issue from a finance perspective. Normal rules apply – does it create inflation? If so tax exists to curtail.

This is all about framing the Tory way of running an economy to appease the right – again.

It won’t work – nothing Starmer does works in this context as you’ve got a bunch of farmers calling the government communist.

More to the point Starmer and Co are looking for people to attack when they’re budget finally wrecks even more of the economy.

Just follow the Tory mindset.

Well, if only a million have signed it, that means the Starmer govt is more popular then, as that means fewer folks don’t want this govt than at the time of the election

The big song and dance about fraudulent benefts claims doesn’t sit right with me

Labour Govts have always made a song and dance about benefit fraud, the same way they make a song and dance about strong policing. In working communities blighted with crime, it’s important that folks fiddling the welfare system are exposed and caught, it’s important that low level nuisance crimes are dealt with. These are the things that impact peoples lives – not farm/landowner inheritance tax changes, for instance.

After 14 years of tory rule, I doubt there is anyone on benefits who doesnt deserve to be on benefits, and have legitimately jumped through every tory ever changing set of hops in order to be eligible.

I suspect a lot of the actual figure being quoted, comes from universal credit to people who are already working but are on a smaller than they can live on wage, but also things like pensions and carers allowances.

persistent “voters are thick” theory

Health information: are you getting your message across?

In the UK, 7.1 million adults read at, or below, the level of an average 9 year old

Politicians know this, populists know it best of all. I’ll just shrug at this point, TBH.

Admirable. But it won’t stop the Russian bot farms trying.

Why would they stop? The UK electorate has shown itself to be unbelievably gullible on several occasions. It doesn’t cost them anything.

For the bang per buck it’s got to be the cheapest warfare  ever.

Once they have someone following one they absolutely just keep feeding them anti-immigration ,anti-starmer,anti-woke or conspiracy  crap on a daily basis.

I’ve been watching the anti-immigration and tbh you just wonder what these people are on as they repost and share  yet another ai picture of a flag and lion or jokes and pictures of we’re English and drink beer and eat bacon, just to keep reinforcing the narrative.

7.1 million out  of 70 ish million still leaves a lot of people who can read and tbh readings old fashioned in todays tik-tok world.

We need to educate people on it and go after the bot farms harder, we just can’t go around calling everyone who falls for it stupid.

the mainly right wing press has focused on the bad policies rather than the good ones

And this thread continues to follows that pattern.

I don’t think fraud is the main thrust of this, I think they are saying the welfare bill is too high full stop.

Well for arguments sake let’s say that Keir Starmer convinces Mail on Sunday readers that the “welfare bill” is too high and needs to be treated as an urgent priority, who are they going to vote for to deal with it? Labour or Tory? Or perhaps Reform UK?

I know it is fashionable on stw to dismiss voters as stupid but who the hell thinks that Labour are tougher on benefit claimants than the Tories? Are we really suggesting that the film “I, Daniel Blake” got it arse about face and the benefits regime is typically more generous under the Tories?

Rishi Sunak did an excellent job of convincing many voters that ‘small boat arrivals’ was a huge problem by making it a central issue in the general election. As a consequence he gave Reform UK a massive boost which resulted in the Tory vote splitting and Labour getting a historic landslide victory, which they would never have otherwise got.

Rather than focusing so much on the alleged stupidity of voters perhaps a little more attention should be given to the sometimes quite obvious stupidity of politicians.

the mainly right wing press has focused on the bad policies rather than the good ones

And this thread continues to follows that pattern.

What bad policies?

Keir Starmer convinces Mail on Sunday readers that the “welfare bill” is too high

I think you have that back to front.

I’ve not read the piece, but I suspect it’ll be more about convincing MoS readers that Labour aren’t taking their eye of the “welfare bill”, something that MoS readers are concerned about (overly to my mind… with “benefits” concerns always about working age people not retirees).

I actually agree with Rone (not all the MMT twaddle) but that tackling benefits (which are on an unsustainable trajectory) is not the right approach. If we want to bring down the welfare bill we need to realign the cost of living with real wages. We can’t do that by bumping up wages (global economy) but we can do something over time about energy and housing costs.

dazh has a point, but not the whole point

And what have they had enough of BTW? Inheritance tax on farms?

IHT for farmers is one issue that needed action, but what needed more thought is a Government package of farming and food sector support. That hasn’t been looked at since May under PM Sunak

Companies paying a bit more tax?

Again, more thought needed to avoid penalising their workforce

Well-off pensioners not getting a handout to pay for their energy bills?

What about the 60-ish% of poor pensioners who should claim Pension Credits and don’t and who consequently won’t get WFA either?

Or are they more interested in the NHS, minimum wage and other things labour have done?

Definite poor thought in these areas too

They could have done a lot more yes, but getting rid of Labour is not the answer to the problem you have identified.

They must do a lot more to support the people in need and be genuinely equitable (or whatever this Government aspires to be) before making poorly thought-through flagship announcements.They’ve had four years to think about this and only had to look north of the border to see Scotland promoting support for poor pensioners and bringing in WFA cuts in 12 months,

“Responsibility for the winter fuel payment was set to be transferred to the Scottish government in September and replaced with a Holyrood-managed equivalent – the Pension Age Winter Heating Payment (PAWHP). That has now been pushed back to winter 2025.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9wnyp42kwo

As much as I don’t like talking about brexit and think we need to get on with it, it is highly amusing seeing a load of brexit-voting rightwing types throwing their dummies out of the pram because Labour are doing what they should be in taxing the more well off and supporting the poorest through stuff like raising the minimum wage. If I was Starmer I’d be going a lot further with sweeping wealth taxes on properties and land-holdings worth more than 5 million, hiking up VAT on luxury items like sportscars etc and putting something like 50% stamp duty on second homes. Every time I see a pissed off farmer on the streets whining about Starmer it tells me he’s doing what he’s supposed to be doing. F*** them!

If we want to bring down the welfare bill we need to realign the cost of living with real wages.

Yes that was kinda the point I was trying to make – if ‘in work benefits’ are a problem, the government should be looking to remove the need for people to rely on them by decreasing the cost of living or increasing wages etc…

…which I guess they are kind of trying to do in some ways, but as always it’s not simple, there’s a lot of moving parts – the NI hike for employers for example might aleviate the benefit bill a bit, but it might well backfire if wages and pay rises stagnate and employers take on fewer staff as a direct result…

I’m not saying I have the answer – I don’t, just musing really.

 If I was Starmer I’d be going a lot further

The landowner protest barely moved the dial re Starmer’s personal rating, or the Govt’s generally. It may be the signal they need to get more radical. I don’t think I’m going to hold my breath though

Every time I see a pissed off farmer on the streets whining about Starmer it tells me he’s doing what he’s supposed to be doing. F*** them!

Indeed. Let’s have a look at the people most angry and most vocal about the direction the Labour government is taking

Nigel Farage

Jeremy Clarkson

James Dyson

Andrew Lloyd Webber

Isabella Oakshott

Lee Anderson

Tommy Robinson

Starmer is clearly doing something right if that motley collection of ghouls is your main opposition