Sir! Keir! Starmer!

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Actually getting elected? Not so much though, eh

Currently there is no evidence that your brand of Labour is any closer to getting elected.

Apart from the Tory voter who’s saying he’d now vote labour, which he never would have done with magic grandad in charge?

Great logic there, comrade

Ah well, another politics thread I’ll not contribute too.

Binners, have a think about that the next time you post about bullying and disrespect.

Love to all.

Apart from the Tory voter who’s saying he’d now vote labour, which he never would have done with magic grandad in charge?

Great logic there, comrade

And yet if for every Tory voter that comes onboard >1 leaves, then it’s not so straightforward.

If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.

@binners If you’re referring to my comment, I didn’t say I would now vote Labour, however I am I very interested to hear what new proposals and policies Starmer has to offer.

Sorry I was not able to reply to all the previous comments aimed in my direction. I was busy weeding the garden and unsuccessfully trying to tubeless my road wheels.

Whichever way you slice it, this country now has a considerably more credible opposition than its had for the last 4 years. There’s another 4 years to build on that before the next election.

So a voter who’s previously voted Tory is saying he would potentially vote labour next time is met with a barrage of abuse?

How very Corbynite.

It seemed to be Starmer supporters piling in. Yet another example of you ignoring anything that contradicts your prejudices.

Starmer’s switched Labour policy during the crisis from ‘rent suspension’ to ‘rent deferment’, hoorah, solidarity with the landlords! This is only the beginning and it must be a real joy for those who backed him. It’s delightful and reassuring to see Lord Sainsbury being involved in financing a Labour leader.
Let’s keep to evidence. Hurling insults and name-calling simply reflect conceptual impedimenta, inarticulacy and an absence of convincing arguments.

Labour are also advocating bailing out Branson to save the aviation industry. All that will do is line Branson’s pockets, surely we’d be better spending the money on retraining staff as we can’t travel with the frequency we did before. Although Corbyn was crap at least he wasn’t a Tory

“It will take a long time to recover from the impact of the virus. The Government must come up with a comprehensive financial support package for the aviation sector and its supply chain which supports almost a quarter of a million jobs.” – @JimfromOldhamhttps://t.co/50xSlm29d6

— Labour Press Team (@labourpress) May 9, 2020

So which workers should Labour want to protect the jobs of, without accusations of being “Tory”?

Why don’t they loan out money instead of bailing them out, i.e. the lender gets it back, with interest preferably?

Edit: ah, after a quick DuckDuckGo; bailouts can take the form of loans. If that’s what the UK government generally does, that sounds reasonable.

I wouldn’t accuse him of being a tory if he was suggesting helping workers rather than giving tax payers money to a billionaire whose business is not viable for the foreseeable. How is giving a bailout to Virgin Atlantic going to help the staff? How long will it keep them in a job? How will it resurrect the aviation industry?
If Starmer was interested in working for the people that money would be better invested in them, by providing retraining so that they can have job security in another sector.

rather than giving tax payers money to a billionaire

Where did you get that from?

Our government is funded by taxes, paid by people and businesses registered in the UK. Starmer is suggesting the government bailout the aviation industry, and Branson has been begging the government for money to keep his business going. Branson has a net worth of 4 and a half billion USD, but he can’t stop the pandemic changing the amount and ways of travel. People are going to lose their jobs and giving money to Virgin isn’t going to prevent it, and the only one to gain is Branson.

giving money to Virgin

Where did you get that from?

I read the news and follow current events. Who owns Virgin Atlantic and what do they do? Who has recently asked the government for help? Which idea is Labour supporting in my post above? Anyway, I’m going to trip trap off so you can troll someone else

Indirectly 100s of thousands of jobs flow from our aviation industry. BA alone employs 42000. There are more jobs at Heathrow than the entire RAF.

Which idea is Labour supporting in my post above?

I read what Jim McMahon wrote in the link you posted, and he doesn’t mention “giving Virgin money”, or “giving tax payers money to a billionaire”. If he or any other Labour spokesperson has pushed for that, please share a link.

If the aviation industry doesn’t get any short term help, be that through loans or other means, there are a lot of jobs on the line… and that is a sudden loss of big employers in some areas, this year, not the slow weening off air travel that may well have been inevitable (possibly desirable) longer term.

Anyway, there are going to be lots of sectors where government restrictions beyond June mean that jobs are at risk without state support … airlines, hospitality, tourism … and Labour will have to push hard to make sure that where the government (rightly and necessarily) restricts trade, it also offers (qualified) support.

faerie, we’ve done this weeks ago.
Suggest you review previous posts.

If Starmer really is a political animal now is the time to kick Joris Bohnson squarely in the balls.

People in general are confused and angry.

Raaaaaaaaab is being trotted out on R4 in a bit.

I sincerely hope they are going to skewer him.

The political time is right for Starmer to pile in.

Morally? To be honest probably not, but this is politics and if you don’t fight dirty you don’t fight at all.

Missed.

Michelle Hussain had an off day there. She allowed Raab to say the same vague shite again when pressed and then didn’t go after him for it.

The political time is right for Starmer to pile in.

This. He’s got to go for the jugular and has a perfect opportunity this afternoon when Johnson gives his statement to parliament. Should be a fairly straightforward task of pointing out that Johnson doesn’t have the leadership qualities required in a national crisis and that he’s sacrificing lives by rushing people back to work before sufficient safeguards are in place.

This. He’s got to go for the jugular and has a perfect opportunity this afternoon when Johnson gives his statement to parliament. Should be a fairly straightforward task of pointing out that Johnson doesn’t have the leadership qualities required in a national crisis and that he’s sacrificing lives by rushing people back to work before sufficient safeguards are in place.

It’s an open goal. Even the Tory media are struggling to put any kind of positive spin on it and a large proportion of the rest of us are looking on incredulously.

Now.

Branson WAS worth 4.5 Billion

Stelios was worth plenty in his Monaco penthouse, but the govt happily gave him £600 million to park his planes.

How is giving to Branson any less or more a fair use of taxpayer money? Is it coz Virgin are more elitist than Easyjet?

Or just that Branson is a nob? Even if he’s trying to sell his spaceship to help the airline?

Industries are suffering across the board. The industry that I and many of my friends work in has been put in the deepfreeze.

I have my reservations about bailing out the airline industry and other large, over extended corporate entities. (Same mistakes being made as 2008) BUT. How soon do we expect air travel to return to normal…. 5 years? 10 years? Never? Leisure travel will be hugely impacted due to economic woes around the world and business has already adapted to a world of skype and zoom.

The airline industry might be the last of all industries to recover, so why support an industry built for a different world. It sounds harsh I know but airlines don’t look like a good investment right now and loaning money to a bad investment might end up in that money just being given away when the airline goes bust anyhow. If that happens they aren’t going to be repaying the loan but the owners and shareholders will be sitting pretty.

You say that, but last week Heathrow are still planning to appeal the knockback to the third runway as they expect the capacity to be back to normal in no time.

I think they are living in a different era. Time will tell.

other large, over extended corporate entities

How many industries have enough cash in the bank to deal with 3-6-12 months doing nothing productive? These industries have grown up on a use other people’s money and “over extended” looks very different in May 2020 to what it did in January.

Any sector facing restrictions on trade from the government after June will need fresh measures to keep people in work. The aviation sector is no different. They can’t keep people in their jobs while their business is all but shut down by order of the state without (conditional) help from the state.

It’s an open goal. Even the Tory media are struggling to put any kind of positive spin on it and a large proportion of the rest of us are looking on incredulously.

Now.

If there is one thing we have learned in the past couple of years, no matter how useless the prime minister, the tories will not side with the opposition in any meaningful way. No matter what happens, we have them for 5 years.

It is better to just keep holding them to account and slowly turn the screw. 5 years of exposing their incompetence rather than a few big and fast but soon forgotten victories is the best chance of winning the next election.

Radio4 about to broadcast a ‘message from Keir Starmer’… is this what you get when the government doesn’t allow journalists to ask questions?

Charisma free… but correct tone, and questions, and looking to the future. Get the right actor to deliver those same words, and it would be standing ovations across the country…

Perhaps this year will have people looking past charisma and delivery (Johnson style) and looking for something else… I’m not holding my breath though.

Not bad. I wouldn’t have been able to leave the words ‘shambles’ or ‘fiasco’, though.

Really want to wake up one day to find that man in number ten. I still can’t see the path to it though.

The contrast doesn’t get much starker than the calm, measured tone asking concise and pertinent questions and the meaningless waffle that was supplied as a non-answer to any of them.

With every encounter, Johnson ends up looking even more lightweight and clueless

Anyone got a link to the radio 4 thing? Can’t find it (easily) on bbc sounds…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000j1yr

5 mins from the end

Charisma free… but correct tone, and questions, and looking to the future

Really want to wake up one day to find that man in number ten. I still can’t see the path to it though.

You probably wouldn’t have seen Attlee defeating Churchill then, a charisma free man if ever there was one but efficient calm and determined. The more the blustering shambling pathetic Churchill tribute act hams it up the more cutting the quiet forensic and calm approach will be. Remember he’s not playing this role for you it’s for those that actually voted for Boris and it’s to win over the press. The greater the contrast the greater the impact.