Sir! Keir! Starmer!

we owe it to VE Day generation to protect them from virus in care homes

I have no idea if this approach will work for Labour… but imagine how annoyed Johnson is today? That’s good enough for me. Nicely played. Show the PM up for what he is… all fluffy speeches and lacking in any diligence and action.

And in the torygraph too, must have felt like a stab in the back which is an amazing level of delicious irony

Delicious is the word.

But Twitter still a wash with ‘people’ claiming that he’s a Tory for getting a Telegraph front page (or undemocratic for challenging the PM, depending on which camp they are attacking him from).

Dicks will be dicks i guess.
just glad it is him holding the government to account now, if it were the old one i dread to think

Dicks get to vote though.

I’m still in the “wish he was PM, but he doesn’t have what it takes to win an election” camp… but that front page is… well… surprising… maybe even perfect. Hmm… green shoots…

That’s what I am taking from it, got a while to wait but am hopeful

I was very disappointed with Starmers first appearance as leader, when he blathered on about exit strategies. However, since then he’s been rather good. That headline is back of the net stuff, the words are brilliant, so econocomical and so precise.

Whilst others have pointed out that the best strategy for the Labour party is to keep their powder dry, there’s still a part of me that feels someone from the opposition should have shouted “FIRE” much earlier, not out of political expedience but out of concern for the nations wellbeing. Had the government been held to account earlier the death toll, disruption and general chaos could have been lessened.

There’s no point.

This isn’t a cabinet government where people have input. They’re listening to nobody. This is a PR exercise. It’s Dominic Cummings dictating terms while a bunch of nodding dogs are pushed in front of the cameras to deliver it.

Starmer is bright enough to let them get on with it, as he can’t influence anything. He knows that his time will come to take them apart further down the line for this almighty cluster****. They own this. And I can’t think of many better people to hold them to account for it.

Just thank god we haven’t still got that beardy Marxist idiot delivering his 10 second shouty thing for Twitter

I can’t think of anybody better to do it to be honest. Boris’s suite of oratory tricks has finaly met its match. He’s looks like he’s getting a dressing down from the deputy head master,

I wondered wether performing well in parliament would make much difference to the bigger picture, though it seemed to knock Boris out of his stride sufficiently to get him making up promises on the spot, that led to all the lockdown ending excitement that ended up putting a rift between some of the RW press and the Dom and Bo Jo show.

Looking forward to the next episode of Crown Court.

Sorry, I meant PMQ’s

Looking forward to the next episode of Crown Court.

This.

The moment when he briefly held up the graph before pointing out the hypocrisy in Boris’ response was pure daytime TV gold.

I think we might finally (thankfully) have a grown up back in front line UK politics again…

In the Zip household he certainly has secured 2 votes from the Libs and I’m a party member.

How would you vote now?

I think we might finally (thankfully) have a grown up back in front line UK politics again

Yep, he was always going to be good at phrasing questions, making well though out statements and so on but does that matter to most of the voters?
Those voters who are outside clapping the NHS but happily voted in a Tory government, you can see thinking is not their strong point…

@kerley
I voted Tory at the last elections and proudly clap the NHS on a Thursday, a decision (voting Tory) that I thought long and hard about. Generally speaking there was not a chance of me voting for a Labour government with Corbyn and crew leading the party, as I opposed their dealing of the Brexit situation, and plans to nationalise industries like rail and postal services. I am very pleased that the Labour Party has a new leader, as the country needs a strong opposition to challenge the incumbent government. Starmer and Labour now gives the country a realistic alternative to the Tories at future ballot box’s.

Btw, why do you have to make personal digs at folks who vote differently to you? People with different personal situations and backgrounds have alternative views to you, why can’t you understand that?

plans to nationalise industries like rail and postal services

Odd examples. A lot of people who vote Tory think those two should be back in the public sector fully, or more than currently. Probably Labour’s most popular policy with non-Labour voters. The wider public ownership policies might be reduced, or even dumped, but I’d be surprised if more public ownership of rail and the Post Office are dropped… they may be dressed up differently, but intervention in both will surly remain party policy (and for rail may even be Tory policy in four years time).

I voted Tory at the last elections and proudly clap the NHS on a Thursday,

Voting in an election is not a consequence free expression of your opinion, it’s a conscious action which tells those in power how you want the country to be governed. By voting tory you clearly signalled your support for the running down and commercialisation of the NHS which has directly resulted in doctors and nurses not having the PPE they need and the resultant preventable deaths. So think about that next time you stand on your doorstep and applaud the people who back in December you didn’t give a shit about. The emotion you should be feeling at that point is one of shame, not pride.

@kelvin
Odd to you maybe, but not to others. Several family members and work colleagues have similar views of state run services, some Labour and some Tories.

Odd to you maybe, but not to others.

I’m not talking anecdotes, or even my preferred policy, just stating the fact that increasing public ownership of rail (much of it already is publicly owned) is one of Labour’s most popular policies… with support well beyond its voter base… I would be surprised/confused if it was dropped under the new leader in an effort to broaden the appeal for the party…

https://fullfact.org/economy/do-public-want-railways-renationalised/

The Post Office nationalisation issue isn’t as clear cut, but it is popular with older Tory voters.

Anyway… beyond the people you know Frank…

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/05/19/nationalisation-vs-privatisation-public-view

Increased public ownership more generally is unpopular, but the Rail and Post Office are clear exceptions, which is why I was surprised to see them as examples. Expect Labour policy in future to reflect that… proposing more public ownership in areas the public support (low hanging fruit) and leaving any other proposals ‘till they’ve proven they can deliver on those areas before any suggestion of something with wider reach.

The emotion you should be feeling at that point is one of shame, not pride.

100% this – is there an element of “Tory voters clap for carers to assuage their own guilt?” I think a number of my family voted Tory – at this point I’d rather not know, but they all clap for carers and if they DID vote blue, the hypocrisy would piss me off.

@dazh Yes I’m aware of why elections are conducted, and as I didn’t want Corbyn in power I voted against him. Would I vote for Labour in the future? Definitely , if I had confidence in their leader and shadow cabinet to improve the running of the country. Sorry I won’t get sucked into the worldwide PPE shortage debate.

@Frankers it’s not a debate about shortages but about a lack of preparation and planning as highlighted by the Cygnus Exercise the full report text is in the article.

Worldwide PPE shortage has nothing to do with Tory policy towards the NHS so stop looking for sticking plasters for cuts by a thousand knives.

I’m not going to list the shower of shite rained down on the service over the decades by their myopic ideology served up by successive health ministers determined to cut spending and flog services to their puppet masters.

Not liking Jeremy Corbyn is a good reason to not vote labour but voting blue is a wholly different thing entirely, either spoil your ballot paper or vote for other parties.  Giving this group of arseholes a mandate is just downright stupid.

Sorry I won’t get sucked into the worldwide PPE shortage debate.

Off to get my coronavirus tory excuse bingo card. No doubt it’s also a result of ‘our system is different’, ‘no one could have predicted this’, ‘the managers in the NHS didn’t do their jobs’, ‘it’s not the government’s responsibility’. Weird how other countries didn’t have the same problems and as a result have a fraction of the deaths that we have. It’s ok though, they won’t be as good as us at pointless doorstep clapping. FFS just take responsibilty, you voted for these idiots, and your vote has enabled the deaths of 10s of thousands. Give yourself a clap.

I’ve posted here before that there’s a difference between winning an argument in parliament and winning over the public.

What I hadn’t factored in was that we could have a leader of the opposition who is so precise in this questioning that he wrong foots his opponent and causes him to flounder, making promises on the hoof that he wishes he hadn’t.

Starmer’s performance in PMQ’s had immediate outcomes, it ended up disrupting the tories relationship with Fleet Street, ruining Cummings plans for Victory over Euope day and It ended up landing him the most positive Daily Telegraph front page I can ever recall for a Labour leader.

Btw, why do you have to make personal digs at folks who vote differently to you? People with different personal situations and backgrounds have alternative views to you, why can’t you understand that?

Because Tory governments have caused pain and misery to so many of the most vulnerable people in our society.
They have destroyed communities.
They have stigmatised those they feel are undeserving.
They have lined their own pockets at the expense of those unable to help themselves.
They appeal to the basest instincs of humanity, have made greed something to aspire to rather than something to be ashamed of and have constantly voted against anything that would help with making this country a better place to live for the majority of our citizens.

They are venal, selfish, ignorant and have no interest in anyone apart from themselves.

And you expect me to be nice to them?

I was going to respond to @Frankers, but other posters above have made the points better than I could have.

But please carry on digging your hole of hypocrisy @Frankers, it’s giving me a well needed chuckle.

One thing about the PPE shortage, apart from all the issues of procurement, is that our usage is very high for the exact same reason that our death toll is really high- the late lockdown that caused the virus to spread so much further, creating many more patients and accordingly much more consumption of PPE. Everything’s connected.

Frankers seemed to be the perfect example of Churchill’s famous [non] quote:

The best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

What I hadn’t factored in was that we could have a leader of the opposition who is so precise in this questioning that he wrong foots his opponent and causes him to flounder, making promises on the hoof that he wishes he hadn’t.

It’s now a Lawyer with experience of representing the underdog against wealthy big business (McD’s) v’s a raffish oaf who’s only skills are being able to order a case of claret and a pigs head for a bullingdon club shindig.

Worldwide PPE shortage has nothing to do with Tory policy towards the NHS so stop looking for sticking plasters for cuts by a thousand knives.

The NHS shortage of PPE is entirely the fault of the Conservative government.

I don’t see the need for all the insults aimed at frankers. Respecting others choices isn’t always easy but if we don’t then we become the thing we hate. Some pretty offensive remarks from those that claim to be superior to the implied stw stereotype of a Tory voter. Bigotry isn’t a good look.

Back on topic, I’m not seeing anything to get optimistic about with starmer yet, its a political period where personality appears to be key. I’m really not seeing any sort of passion to win people over, being sensible might not be enough however long he has.

Back on topic, I’m not seeing anything to get optimistic about with starmer yet, its a political period where personality appears to be key. I’m really not seeing any sort of passion to win people over, being sensible might not be enough however long he has.

Agree which is why I think he is a good choice politically (running rings around the government) but a poor choice to actually win an election as most people won’t even remember who he is. You almost need a puppet leader who is really popular with someone like Starmer controlling the strings.

You mean a bit like Dom and Boris

Agree with exsee, no need to get personal although it does apoear to be a trait of the left.

There is a world wide PPE shortage, that’s a fact and other countries are having problems as well. Does that let the Tories off the hook, no, but then if Labour had been in power I doubt it would have been any different, short term idiots all of them.

dahz, other countries have had less deaths, but a similar order of magnitude to us so suggesting their death rates are a fraction of ours is disingenuous.

Did we lock down too late, maybe, do we have a useless government who are massively out of their depth and only reacting to changing circumstances rather than manage it, absolutely.

As for where we are now, i think a lot of Labour members need to take a long hard look at their own actions, backing Corbyn was bad for the Labour party and very bad for country, that’s the main reason we’ve got the idiots we have now, it was Labour’s election to lose and they absolutely threw it away.

Many parts of the left of Labour are as myopic, selfish, and self serving as the right, they appeal to the politcs of envy and stoke up as much societal division as the Tories.

For what it’s worth I’m a small c conservative, i don’t like big state and magic money trees, they don’t work. However that pales into insignificance compared to the suicidal and populist policies the current government is pursuing. For the record much as I hated what Corbyn stood for I held my nose and voted Labour in the last election as many on here appealed for people to do. If I can react and change who I vote for it’s a shame others on here can’t get past their dyed in the wool prejudices, we’ve had good and bad government’s of all political persuasions. Constantly demonizing one side or the other is not helpful or grown up.

I don’t see the need for all the insults aimed at frankers.

Agree with this.

Agree with exsee, no need to get personal although it does apoear to be a trait of the left.

Don’t agree with that – allow me to introduce you to the dog’s abuse Corbyn bore with good grace. It’s not single-sided by any means.

I don’t see the need for all the insults aimed at frankers. 

I haven’t insulted him.
I’ve stated what I think of Tory governments.

Don’t agree with that – allow me to introduce you to the dog’s abuse Corbyn bore with good grace. It’s not single-sided by any means.

And this.
Especially considering the disgusting, institutionalised abuse and downright lies aimed at individuals in the Labour party during the last election.
Pure hypocrisy.

And there you go again, Labour were no better. There’s good, bad, nice, evil, incompetent, competant people on both sides.

There’s good, bad, nice, evil, incompetent, competant people on both sides.

You paraphrase Trump talking about fascists and those who oppose them, not a good choice of words to back up your argument.

And there you go again, Labour were no better. There’s good, bad, nice, evil, incompetent, competant people on both sides.

I invite you to regurgitate the lies and abuse from the Labour campaign in the last election.

So a voter who’s previously voted Tory is saying he would potentially vote labour next time is met with a barrage of abuse?

How very Corbynite.

They never really did get the hang of this democracy lark, did they? Actually convincing people to vote for you. As opposed to telling them to **** off?

Still…. ideological purity is very, very important. Actually getting elected? Not so much though, eh?

Would you care to provide examples of your posts over the past few years that have encouraged the floating voter to vote Labour? 🙂