Sir! Keir! Starmer!

I think he’s bright enough to realise that playing party politics at the moment will not be received well by the majority of the public, with hundreds of people a day dying.

+1

Yeah, he’s worked that out and I suspect the little he is saying is purely aimed at members not at voters. (Asking for an exit strategy when all the variables that feed into an exit strategy are still unknown is bat-shit-mental. Plus the interviewers just respond with “Well would your exit strategy be” and he has to duck that.)

The less he says now the better – the election is 4 years away there will be plenty of time to score points over the handling of CV in future and by then he’ll have the benefit of hindsight. He will be as aware of that as we are.

Asking for an exit strategy when all the variables that feed into an exit strategy are still unknown is bat-shit-mental.

Not really, Test, track & trace allows you to ease lockdown (& restrict again) locally as the data allows you. Starmer, im sure knows this, hes also seen that the government are flailing all over the place to try & set it up (hence hancock pulling numbers out of the air & getting touchy at every presser).
The government havent acted on lockdon, food supplies, PPE, care homes…. etc until pressure was applied from journos, now with an actual opposition these things can be done by our elected representatives.

otherwise you just end up with the bat-shit mental members of government making stuff up as they go along & causing more chaos & confusion

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-04-16/health-minster-nadine-dorries-forced-to-clarify-lockdown-comments-after-twitter-spat-with-piers-morgan/

Nadine Dorres in a spat with Piers Morgan? A real clash of the intellectual heavyweights there.

The best thing Kier Starmer can do is keep as quiet as possible until we’re safely out the other side of this, where I very much doubt the government are going to emerge with much credit.

And surely the changes that we’ll see being demanded in our society as a result of this will naturally favour the political position of the labour party rather than the shrink-the-state free-marketeers opposite them.

So best to let that emerge naturally, surely? It won’t need much political encouragement, so best to sit back and say nowt, rather than run the risk accusations of playing politics in the middle of a national crisis. The party now has the people at the helm who look like a serious potential government, so the hysterical protestations of Momentum et al simply aren’t relevant to most people, no matter how many Tweets they put out

So, as for the Corbynites lefts present bout of outraged petticoat rustling… let them get on with it. Nobody, except themselves (on Twitter), is listening. The reality is that outside the social-media sixth form bunker/echo chamber, most people don’t give a toss about the why’s and wherefores of why Corbyn is gone, they’re just glad that he has and credible opposition is now once again a feature of UK politics

Test, track & trace allows you to ease lockdown

Cool, good to have a potential plan on the table:

(Roughly) How many test would that require? Just to be clear you’re talking about antigen tests, not antibody tests, aren’t you.

(Roughly) How many people would be needed to do the tracing? Who would you use to do that job?

mosy people don’t give a toss about the why’s and wherefores of why Corbyn is gone, they’re just glad that he has

Do you agree that losing the 2017 election and the subsequent defeat last year was a price worth paying to teach the left a lesson, because that seems to be the view of the people in those whatsapp messages?

And it doesn’t matter whether ‘most people’ give a toss about it, only labour members. If you hadn’t forgotten the vast majority of those supported Corbyn, and a significant number voted for Starmer. They’ll want to know what he’s going to do about labour members and salaried staff who wanted the tories to stay in power. Given some left wing members were thrown out for liking green party tweeets I expect they’ll be wanting similar action.

Cool, good to have a potential plan on the table:

(Roughly) How many test would that require? Just to be clear you’re talking about antigen tests, not antibody tests, aren’t you.

(Roughly) How many people would be needed to do the tracing? Who would you use to do that job?

exactly! youve illustrated why the questions need to be asked

What is it with antisemites and the Stab in the back myth ?

Do you agree that losing the 2017 election and the subsequent defeat last year was a price worth paying to teach the left a lesson

No. Not a price worth paying. But it was clear that it was the only way they might learn the lesson*, but they did not.

Although, “the left” includes lots of people that thought the 2019 manifesto took too much of scattergun approach. So by “the left” I’ve assumed you to mean the previous leader and those around him, rather than most Labour members and voters. I think Labour members have learnt the lesson. Plenty of very left leaning people in the new shadow cabinet who also have.

[*I’ll summarise the lesson to be that you need 40%+ of voters to support you, and you can’t get that many people to identify as “the left”, so need to win over a hell of a lot of voters who don’t]

exactly! youve illustrated why the questions need to be asked

No, I’ve illustrated questions that the Dept of Health *will* have already worked out and we can pretty sure they aren’t sitting on a Panacea and they’ve forgotten to tell us and all it need is Keir to ask the right question.

Nobody knows the combination of things that will get us out of this because nobody knows how many people have already been infected, when a scalable antibody test will come along, when a vaccine will come along or when the kit/people will be available for large scale antigen testing.

Keir understands this which is why when he has his own question asked of him he ducks it.

Daz – do you seriously think that the minor actions of a few people in the party hierarchy really made any significant impact on either election result?

Seriously?

And that otherwise we’d have had a labour government and Grandad in number 10?

I’m afraid that that is so far into the realms of pure Fantasy as to be ludicrous

All this is just the continuation of the delusional belief that nothing is ever the fault of St Jeremy

Everyone knows this, which is why, despite the hysterical reaction of the faithful on Twitter, it has been met by everyone else with the collective shrug that it warrants.

And Kier Starmer, like most people, has bigger fish to fry than a few Marxists with hurty feelings

What is it with antisemites and the Stab in the back myth ?

Are you suggesting Daz is an anti-semite? Or that the accusations being levelled are the work of anti-semites?

I’d suggest careful consideration of your answer and some evidence to back up your assertions before replying.

No, I’ve illustrated questions that the Dept of Health *will* have already worked out and we can pretty sure they aren’t sitting on a Panacea and they’ve forgotten to tell us and all it need is Keir to ask the right question.

I’m amazed that people seem happy to let the government blunder us out of lockdown the way they blundered us into it.

Proper scrutiny wasn’t done at the start of this not doing it now doesn’t help

As you saw Merkel can explain it, why can’t our own government ?

They’ve been dishonest about this so far, on herd immunity , talking to supermarkets, PPE, care homes etc

Why aren’t you worried they’re doing the same with an exit strategy?

Daz – do you seriously think that the minor actions of a few people in the party hierarchy really made any significant impact on either election result?

Seriously?

Unrelated, directly, to Corbyn but yes, just look at Scotland and the “anyone but SNP” policy that had Labour supporting the Tories where it would/could deny SNP a seat.

That such self defeating shenanigans were happening elsewhere isn’t a great leap of imagination.

I’m amazed that people seem happy to let the government blunder us out of lockdown the way they blundered us into it.

Without large scale antibody test, a vaccine, large scale antigen tests, large scale treatments every nation is blundering. The one advantage the UK has is we can look at the countries who are ahead of us as they relax their lockdowns.

We are bang in the middle of world death rates, we didn’t push the NHS beyond breaking getting to the first peak.

binners
Subscriber

Daz – do you seriously think that the minor actions of a few people in the party hierarchy really made any significant impact on either election result?

The actions of the party heirarchy in Scotland enabled Theresa May to form a government with the DUP. And they still say they had a good election…

aaaand starmers question have got some answers from government

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVvPWx8WsAAh14e?format=png

binners:

The best thing Kier Starmer can do is keep as quiet as possible until we’re safely out the other side of this, where I very much doubt the government are going to emerge with much credit.

I can’t help thinking ‘magic grandpa’, would have been ridiculed for such an approach.

Daz – do you seriously think that the minor actions of a few people in the party hierarchy really made any significant impact on either election result?

Seriously?

And that otherwise we’d have had a labour government and Grandad in number 10?

I’m afraid that that is so far into the realms of pure Fantasy as to be ludicrous

It’s not, actually. JC outright winning the 2017 election is a fantasy (60+ seats off an overall majority IIRC) but that’s not what’s been said – that election resulted in a hung parliament and about 10 of those seats labour lost by the narrowest of margins, 10s – 100s of votes. They swing the other way on a coordinated labour campaign and it’s the JC and Nicola show in a minority government.

So yeah it’s all water under the bridge now, and the man on the street is supremely not arsed about Leftist whatsapp archaeology, but there’s no question it did some real damage to the LP. I don’t think it’s anything KS will really need to deal with outwardly or from the media, but it’s going to leave some deep, festering resentments within the LPL structure that need sorting out.

Festering resentments? That’s all those shower have done for the best part of 40 years now. That’s not news. It’s their raison’d’etre. And the reason nobody voted for their unique brand of peevish, joyless sanctimony

And, like I said… Grandad achieving the additional 60+ seats required for an overall majority was, and is fantasy of the most ridiculous sort.

It was never, ever going to happen. Even against the most inept campaigner in political history, bar himself. But… you know… nothing is his fault, is it? Not the sainted Jeremy?

Let’s point the finger at everybody else instead.

Same old, same old. Losing the 2017 election should have been the end of the Corbyn ‘project’ but here they still are, being a PITA and carrying on their mission to render the Labour Party as totally unelectable.

Starmer has more important things to sort out right now than placating Twitterstorms from the professionally outraged members of the PFJ.

It’s instructive to see what those people think is a priority at the moment. Says it all.

Blinkers are strong binbins. Almost a bunker mentality yourself.

Also

K E I R

Bunker mentality? Hmmmmmmm.

I’ve never had any time for the insular, endlessly petty, narrow, self-absorbed, pragmatism-free, pious parochialism of ‘the left’

Which they’ve spent the last few days demonstrating admirably. All trying to outdo each other on social media with how indignant they are, while in the real world, outside their shrieking, outraged little echo chamber, thousands of people die.

Typical

I have no time for the Labur left twitter echo chamber- I find it funny in the same way you do. BUT you are ignoring the wrong that the “grown-ups” in the party have done. Some of them should be out the bloody door. You couldn’t wait to see the back of Seamus and co but you are happy to turn a blind eye to this lot.

So that was week two of new sensible meaninful opposition. A polite request to a rudderless and incompetent government if they wouldn’t mind awfully letting us know what they intend to do release us all from house arrest, whilst almost nothing on the continuing crisis in hospitals and care homes where staff don’t have the PPE they need, and people are being left to die on their own with no medical help. And a new review announced to investigate the previous investigation, because the results of that investigation didn’t quite come out they way they hoped they would. Tricky stuff this opposition lark, and we were told it was all so easy.

whilst almost nothing on the continuing crisis in hospitals and care homes where staff don’t have the PPE they need

You’ve ignored all media appearances by the shadow health team then? If you’re only talking about the leader’s own appearances, then I agree with you.

Miliband has been chasing on his brief (help to companies) strongly as well.

Dodds on job retention schemes as well.

I could go on…

I was about to post links to media stories based on contributions from the shadow team… but just referring people to this page is less scattergun (quicker to scan than a load of radio and TV links with time cues as well):

https://labour.org.uk/category/latest/press-release/

Although, as I said, I’m not impressed with Starmer’s own efforts either.

Same old, same old. Losing the 2017 election should have been the end of the Corbyn ‘project’ but here they still are, being a PITA and carrying on their mission to render the Labour Party as totally unelectable.

You and JHB concur.

John, why don’t you and your lunatic mates take your “biggest scandal in Labour’s history”, piss off back to the backbench obscurity you came from and leave the rest of us to focus on the small issue of a global pandemic and the major economic crisis? https://t.co/yAuE3lg5Fc

— Julia Hartley-Brewer (@JuliaHB1) April 18, 2020

Not prepared to join the battle for the truth Binners?

I can’t believe I’m siding with that hateful women against a man I like and respect like McDonnell, but I am. He has more useful stuff he could be getting on with, surely? And I still don’t recognise his description of the content of the leaks, he’s just parroting one narrow, and I’m afraid I have to say ‘paranoid’, interpretation. It’s a story no one is really interested in right now, and is just a one sided view of a messy internal battle that can either be put to rest for now, or lead to permanent opposition, especially if the ‘other side’ start counter leaking. Why is he risking the damage to his party?

You couldn’t wait to see the back of Seamus and co but you are happy to turn a blind eye to this lot.

Well that was bound to happen.

I can’t believe I’m siding with that hateful women against a man I like and respect like McDonnell, but I am. He has more useful stuff he could be getting on with, surely?

You’ve got to hold people to account. Simple. Too much damge was caused by the press with the amplification of AS.

the amplification of AS

The layers of this one are a mess. If allies of ‘the left’ (who got me voting Labour) hadn’t fuelled that fire with antisemetic behaviour, then it couldn’t have been fanned, or amplified, by the media and their ‘enemies’ within the party. Both ‘sides’ behaved abysmally, and the options now are to move on, or destroy the party with tit for tat ‘revelations’. I had hoped McDonnell would pick the healing route, but perhaps those that claimed he only wanted to be king maker for leader of the party, rather than leader of the country, were right after all.

I expected Dazh & you, Rone, to jump on this, but I thought better of McDonnell.

A polite request to a rudderless and incompetent government if they wouldn’t mind awfully letting us know what they intend to do release us all from house arrest,

Starmers question gave us a more detailed response the following day than we’ve ever had about how lockdown could end

Dominic Raab confirms lockdown will continue for at least 3 weeks.

It will only be relaxed when Govt confident:

➡️NHS can cope
➡️Sustained fall in death rates
➡️Decreasing infection rate
➡️Testing capacity/ PPE etc in hand
➡️Adjustments won’t risk 2nd peak

— Pippa Crerar (@PippaCrerar) April 16, 2020

More of that please

On who would make best Prime Minister:

Boris Johnson: 46%
Keir Starmer: 22%

Not sure: 28%

via @YouGov

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) April 20, 2020

I think there’s a pattern forming 😉

Not prepared to join the battle for the truth Binners?

The truth? Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans? Because JHB says it, it can’t possibly be true? Grow up! I suspect that she’s voicing the opinions of an awful lot of people, the vast majority of the voting public in fact, who are more than happy that Magic Grandad and his motley assortment of Marxist incompetents are gone for good.

And anyway, all this ‘report’ appears to consist of is a lot of gossip and paranoid tittle-tattle from inside the bunker partially leaked to do as much damage as possible as they’re hoofed back to the backbenches where they belong.

Nobody cares!

The Guardian was reporting that a lot of the people named in these leaks (which have arch-Corbynite Jennie Formby’s fingerprints all over them) are now taking legal action for libel and it looks like the final act of the Corbynites will be to bankrupt the party, paying out damages and legal fees. So it looks like this particular hatchet job is proving as well-judged and successful as their last attempted drive-by shooting on Tom Watson

How typically self-indulgent of them, as they continue to do Tory Central Offices work for them, as always.

A good job this is an opportune moment for such nonsense, with not much important going on

Oh… I just had a pop onto Twitter to see what the latest tin-foil helmet lunacy is from the lefty headbangers, and who’d have guessed it…

The country hasn’t just given a collective shrug, because we’re all a bit busy with other stuff at the moment and nobody actually gives a toss about what Corbyn and his weird cult members have to say…

Oh no. That would be too logical. Too easy.

Apparently the #LabourLeaks report is being deliberately suppressed, and guess who’s involved?

The Israeli’s!!

…obviously 😂

No wonder Starmer is concentrating on the day job and not even acknowledging this puerile, paranoid, sixth-form level, delusional nonsense

They really are absolutely mental! Completely hatstand, the lot of them

if they wouldn’t mind awfully letting us know what they intend to do release us all from house arrest

That’s the sort of thing an American would write on a placard and hold it while swearing at a nurse in the street.

Starmer should be keeping his head down, getting the Labour house in order and occasionally poking the govt for inaction.

Then emerging from the ashes to really put up a credible opposition.

The Poll above doesn’t take into account that now is not the time for politicking. All the lower house should be working towards a common goal. There will be time to throw rotten veg at each other in the future

Totally hatstand.

He's still the boss. You know it. We know it. Sir Starmer knows it. https://t.co/zlYZ4oCTbC

— Lewis Cox (@LewisCoxEaling) April 21, 2020

Very excited about Starmer’s first PMQs. I’m expecting big things, and a demonstration of what real opposition looks like in the serious world of not rocking the boat in case we upset the other side.

Totally hatstand.

You don’t think student nurses working on the front line should have their debts written off?

They shouldn’t be charged the fees in the first place, so yes, they should have those debts cancelled.

I think Starmer should have waited for Johnson’s return before doing any dispatch box stuff. Nandy or Rayner should be handling Raab.

I take it back! He’s taking Raab’s responses apart.

Nice to see a labour leader who looks up instead of just standing staring at his notes and reading the questions he’s had written for him, then actually being sharp enough to think on his feet in response to Raabs half-arsed answers.

What are the six formers going to do without their shouty, ten second Twitter clip though?